Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[foxbat]

Oh yea then lets kill those who protest. Is that what democracy is all about? Killing those who protest. If you think that way, then you dont know the first thing about democracy. Freedom is everyone's right in every democracy.

democracy is about the rule of majority(view and not religion before you jump on that) . And majority is calculated by looking at the complete population of the country and not a subset. If subsets are allowed, then I can declare my house as a separate country since I have majority in my support in my house

And those who do not conform to the majority opinion can express protest as long as it stays peaceful. Once it becomes a riot, the strong arm of law has to crush it. Thats what you are seeing in Kashmir. And also in Hissar (Haryana) where 2 rioters were killed today for attacking the LEOs.

Anyway, it was rich getting a lecture on democracy from a Pakistani where democracy has never survived a sustained stint..

 

[Areesh]

Read the news again and try to use ur brain:

1. These were protests against the "burning of Quran" so obviously they were agitated people who get provoked by some radicals and burned the school.

2. Each and every pakistani newspaper and website were jumping up and down with the claims that 17 people gets killed in firing but no one reports that these were to save Christians and public from getting killed by mad mobs provoked by sepratists.

Yeh aik aur aa gaya. Even all the news in the first post says otherwise he is continuing with his rant.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

Yeah, the government first told them to burn the schools and then shot them; that what you trying to say?

Read the links provided by first a Kashmiri and than a bharati and you would understand what I am trying to say.

 

[Areesh]

Wahidudun Khan as always is annectodal .Wahiduddin Khan’s narration of an stray incidence has nothing to do with any Islamic content to his political views . Whatever he wrote in above is a political judgment and has nothing to do with his Islamic scholarship and His political judgement is very suspect .As I have said earlier the only case India has in Kashmir is naked power and if Wahidudin Khan wants to peddle this power as something else It speaks much more about him than our struggle .
It is also strange that rather than cuationing his own government in delhi he cuations people in Kashmir and Pakistan .

It would be bit offtopic but is he the same Waheed uddin Khan who has some strange/distorted beliefs religious wise. Am I correct bro?

 

[Devil Soul]

 

[Devil Soul]

 

[faisaljaffery]

Indian forces have killed more then 100,000 innocent Kashmiri people... who is responsible for their death?? The day has come when Kashmiris will take revenge for this blood shed. Its better for india to resolve the issue peacefully other wise current situation will lead to a gurriella war, which will prove fatal for inda and india will lose its alledgely occupied territory.

 

[Patrician]

Indian forces have killed more then 100,000 innocent Kashmiri people... who is responsible for their death?? The day has come when Kashmiris will take revenge for this blood shed. Its better for india to resolve the issue peacefully other wise current situation will lead to a gurriella war, which will prove fatal for inda and india will lose its alledgely occupied territory.

In case you just opened your eyes into the world, we have been fighting the guerrilla war for more than two decades now and do I need to remind you who has paid the biggest price of this war?

@On Topic,

Do you have a plan or is this yet again one of those regular la-la land Utopian world view of yours?

By the way, do read my earlier posts before replying to me and save me the labor of typing so much for you once again.

Regards,
Peace

 

[Valiant_Soul]

More nonsense - how on earth does that passage change the fact that you have no justification for calling Junagadh's accession to Pakistan 'illegal and immoral', or the fact that the Maharajah was already fighting a rebellion against his dictatorial and discriminatory rule in Kashmir, BEFORE the Tribal's entered the conflict.

Before you accuse India of double standards, please be informed of the pretexts of these events. Read this(from Wikipedia):

The Muslim Nawab of Junagadh, Muhammad Mahabat Khanji III, whose ancestors had ruled Junagadh and small principalities for some two hundred years, decided that Junagadh should become part of Pakistan, much to the displeasure of the people of the state, an overwhelming majority of whom were Hindus. The Nawab acceded to the Dominion of Pakistan on 15 August 1947. Pakistan accepted this on 13 September. When Pakistan confirmed the acceptance of the accession in September, the Government of India was outraged that Muhammad Ali Jinnah could accept the accession of Junagadh despite his argument that Hindus and Muslims could not live as one nation.[1] Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel believed that if Junagadh was permitted to go to Pakistan, it would exacerbate the communal tension already simmering in Gujarat.

The princely state was surrounded on all three sides by India, with an outlet to the Arabian Sea. The unsettled conditions in Junagadh had led to a cessation of all trade with India and the food position became precarious. The region was in crisis and the Nawab was forced to flee to Karachi with his family fearing for his life and established a provisional government with his followers.

Now if you think we should put the same logic to Kashmir, then FYI we did, and agreed to a plebiscite. But it never happened due to mis-adventures of Pakistan. Pakistan never kept its side of promise for the plebiscite to happen.

Read this (from Wikipedia as well):

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925 and was the reigning monarch at the conclusion of British rule in the subcontinent in 1947. As a part of the partition process, both countries had agreed that the rulers of princely states would be given the right to opt for either Pakistan or India or — in special cases — to remain independent. In 1947, Kashmir's population was 77% Muslim and it shared a boundary with Pakistan. On 20 October 1947, tribesmen backed by Pakistan invaded Kashmir.[5] The Maharaja initially fought back but on 27 October appealed for assistance to the Governor-General Louis Mountbatten, who agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India.[6] Once the papers of accession to India were signed, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir with orders to stop any further occupation, but they were not allowed to expel anyone from the state. India took the matter to the United Nations.

The UN resolution asked Pakistan to vacate the areas it has occupied and asked India to assist the U.N. Plebiscite Commission to organize a plebiscite to determine the will of the people. Pakistan refused to vacate the occupied areas.

 

[indian_reality]

What US public(not govt) thinks of Pakistan is clear from the tepid response from US media and public donations to the Pakistan floods. Fact though unfortunate.

 

[EjazR]

Wahidudun Khan as always is annectodal .Wahiduddin Khan’s narration of an stray incidence has nothing to do with any Islamic content to his political views . Whatever he wrote in above is a political judgment and has nothing to do with his Islamic scholarship and His political judgement is very suspect .As I have said earlier the only case India has in Kashmir is naked power and if Wahidudin Khan wants to peddle this power as something else It speaks much more about him than our struggle .
It is also strange that rather than cuationing his own government in delhi he cuations people in Kashmir and Pakistan .

Did you even read the article?

The article has less to do with ISlam and more to do with the progress and peaceful resolution of KAshmir dispute. Just because his sound arguments do not mesh with your understanding does not mean his points are not valid.

At the end of the day, who has suffered more because of the dispute, the Kashmiri people or GoI? Who is suferring more right now? That is the bottom line he is addressing.

People think that India will leave Kashmir like the US left Vietnam, Russia left AFghanistan e.t.c but the situation is more akin to Chinese in Xinjiang where not only do the Chinese consider it strategic but the population comprises of less than 4% of the total Chinese population. The 4.5 million valley KAshmiris dont even comprise 1% of the Indian population and without the Indian electorate on your side you will not get indepedance constitutionally. Making the movement religious in colour and anti-Hindu alienates the electorate even further.

Before 1989 there was no army presence so its not like army was there all the time. You should read up on the tribal invasions of Baramulla and the rapes and looting by Tribals from present day FATA in 1948. If you want democratic rights from India you have to first accept that you are citizens of India. You can't ask for democratic rights when you are not willing to even give democracy a chance.

I don't expect you to convince otherwise, but its something to think about.

I know that in Hyderabad, which use to be the richest independant muslim state in the world pre-1947, after being amalgated with India, there was still sepratist sentiment during the 50s-60s. Infact, when people from UP or other parts of India would come to Hyderabad,the question would "aap Hindustan se aye hai?" or people from that area would be referred to as Hindustanis vs Hyderbadis.

But once peace was restored, the Hyderbadi muslim leaders decided to redefine and accept that the sucess of their community lies with India as long as India fully gurantees freedom of religion to practice and preach; economic oppurtunities were provided and a new generation of Hyderabid muslims came up to grab the oppurtunities, now they have no problem in calling themselves as Indians.

And it was the Hyderbadi MP Asasuddin Owaisi that raised the voice for Kashmiris in the parliament over the senseless violence in Kashmir.

 

[EjazR]

It would be bit offtopic but is he the same Waheed uddin Khan who has some strange/distorted beliefs religious wise. Am I correct bro?

yes its offtopic but hehas recieved many awards from many religious institutions for ISlamic scholarship including Saudi ones. So your concerns are invalid.

You can find more of his writings here From the Desk of Maulana Wahiduddin Khan | CPS International

You may be surprised to know that even Pakistani based scholars like Maududi have also said that there is no Jihad in Kashmir and subversive war i.e. GoP saying we are not fighting India and then supporting militants is against the principles of Quran and Islam.

 

[Areesh]

yes its offtopic but hehas recieved many awards from many religious institutions for ISlamic scholarship including Saudi ones. So your concerns are invalid.

You can find more of his writings here From the Desk of Maulana Wahiduddin Khan | CPS International

You may be surprised to know that even Pakistani based scholars like Maududi have also said that there is no Jihad in Kashmir and subversive war i.e. GoP saying we are not fighting India and then supporting militants is against the principles of Quran and Islam.

Well I would do research about this guy because I have heard some strange things about him. Receiving awards from Saudi govt isn't a certificate for Islam. Anyways about Maududi he wasn't against Kashmiri freedom struggle, all he said was that waging a covert or secret war isn't a jihad. An open war is necessary for the independence of Kashmir. He always considered illegitimate occupation of India as illegitimate and supported struggle against it.

 

[back me up]

@RollingStones

u better watch your mouth or u will be dubbed as "Indian Agent" or something.

I dont know what part of the United States you live in, but here in the Northeastern part of the United States we Pakistanis happily say we are Pakistanis and no one looks down at us. My relatives have been living in the U.S. since the 1970's. They said they always tell other Americans they are of Pakistani decent and proudly call themselves Pakistani Americans. They are doing extremely well, and are making above $250,000 yearly in their careers. I live in the U.S. and never in my life called myself indian, i would rather die. I ALWAYS TELL AMERICANS THAT I AM A PAKISTANI.

And by the way, there is no Pakistani version of Islam just like there is no Bosnian version of Islam or an Indonesian version of Islam. Islam is a religion. Pakistani is a nationality and not all Pakistanis are Muslims. There is a Christian Pakistani family in my neighborhood, and even though they are Christians they proudly tell other Americans that they are Pakistani Americans. There are fundamentalists in every nationality, in every race, in every religion. Pakistan is a nation of 180 million people. There are about 300,000 Pakistanis living in the United States of America many of whom have been living in the United Stes for decades. You will find moderate Pakistanis, liberal Pakistanis, and extremist Pakistanis. Same with Arabs, Iranians, etc...

I'm pretty sure you are one of those indians pretending to be white. Dont forget to put your fairness cream before you go to bed, maybe then you can go by as a white.

@Omar1984

I dont want to spoil ur anti-india parade, but the fact is, Rolling Stones is right. recent events have forced pakistanis to pretend to be indians to get jobs and stuff.

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but many people take it as an insult.

 

[greatsequence]

More media presence on the Indian side than on the Pakistani side.

That is why you know about those arrested here while there is no info about similar arrests in Gilgit baltistan e.t.c.

You amuse me. In recent much hyped elections media presence was huge. There is no media blackout in gilgit baltistan no info on the arrests because the dont happen.

 

[greatsequence]

The dispute is the entire historical state of J&K and not just the valley.

The vally consitutes about 50% of the J&K population, with Jammu and Ladakh together providing the other 50%.

The valley residents DO NOT want a sepration from Jammu or Ladakh regions for obvious reasons and neither do they want to join Pakistan as per the survey. So making the valley alone independanct or giving it away to Pakistan will not satisfy them.

It seems you forgot Azad kashmir and Gilgit baltistan.