Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[SpArK]

China withdraws reference to Gilgit-Baltistan as ‘northern Pakistan’

Ananth Krishnan
BEIJING: A day after India voiced concerns to China over its reference to the disputed Gilgit-Baltistan region as “a northern part of Pakistan,” the Chinese government withdrew its statement from its official Xinhua news agency as well as from the Foreign Ministry’s website.

The Chinese government had issued a statement on Xinhua’s website late on Wednesday night, refuting a New York Times opinion piece which claimed that over 11,000 Chinese troops were present in the disputed region.

The statement referred to Gilgit-Baltistan, which India views as under illegal occupation by Pakistan and as an integral part of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, as “northern Pakistan,” triggering a protest from New Delhi.

But on Saturday, the statement appeared to have been removed from Xinhua’s website. The link to the statement, headlined “China refutes reports of sending troops to Pakistan,” did not open.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry, which in a regular briefing on Thursday had repeated the reference to Gilgit-Baltistan “as a northern part of Pakistan” in response to a question on the presence of Chinese troops, deleted records of both the question and its response from its official transcript, which was posted on its website on Friday.

On Friday morning, Indian Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar had conveyed New Delhi’s concerns over China’s recent moves in P0K in talks with Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun.

In the talks, Mr. Jaishankar raised questions over the presence of Chinese troops in P0K, and also protested China’s reference to the disputed region as a part of northern Pakistan.

Mr. Zhang assured Indian officials that the troops present in the region were stationed there only for flood relief work and to provide humanitarian assistance.

The Hindu : Front Page : China withdraws reference to Gilgit-Baltistan as ‘northern Pakistan’

 

[Awesome]

So you do accept that 'independence' was, at least back then in 1947, not an option for kashmir because UN res. (backed by GoP) don't have any word such as 'independence'? Let's forget for a second that it is 2010. Go back a little in time, to 1947, and then answer my question.

You said "GoP got 'Independence' option removed'. I say nothing like that happened. You have failed to provide a single shred of evidence that they ever got the option removed. It was a UNSC decision.

Ok let's make it ' India & Pakistan got 'independence' removed as an option. Will that be fine with you? I'm no sensitive. Are you?

Point to me where Pakistan said "Remove this option please".

You are giving conflicting replies my friend. On one hand you say "we don't want 'independence' option". On other hand you say "We want kashmiris to decide their future."

Point to me where I said we don't want independence option? I can't help if you're being delusional and seeing words that have not been written and recalling historic events that have not happened.

Pakistan supports Kashmiri's right for self-determination, regardless of the UNSC resolutions. If India agrees to allow independence we can both approach the UNSC and get in a new resolution declaring Kashmir's independence. Thats a whole new story, when India, the sole objector to Kashmir's independence, removes its objections and allows Kashmiris to have its self-determination right exercised.

I'm sooooooo confused.

Of course you are.

Oh wait!

You mean to say this "We want kashmiris to decide their future but
we want them to join us"

You're so bad at debates. You keep attributing words to me in quotes, things I've never said. I even gave a two step formula before on this very thread on how plebiscites can be conducted. Even simpler minds will not be confused with a basic concept of "What do Kashmiris want? Ask them".

That's nothing but what YOU just SAID!

I wonder what you're smoking that compels you to see things I didn't say and then you back out of ever pointing to actual words, links and quotes.

Thanks but no thanks. By the way, we are not talking about emotions or ethics here. We are talking about pure, hard facts. And dear friend, when it comes to hard fact, GoP's position is self-contradictory in itself.

I've deducted, you're either here to do a tamasha, you're better of weilding a dugdugi and going out on the streets to get the attention you seek. Your "pure hard facts" never came. Your claim that Pakistan got the Independence option removed was never proven, you multitude of quotes attributed to me, I never said. I think you should be referred to psychiatric help or else you're just seeking some attention.

I've given plenty of it today, and I think I want my 24 hours refunded. Don't waste the board's time.

 

[Socrates]

India should act smart from now on. Till now, apart from distributing the troops all over to counter the terrorists what did we do constructively to win the hearts of the people. Yes we have given lots of privileges to Kashmiris (like reservations in institutes across the country), but how many are even aware of that! We should give free and mandatory education to Kashmiris, make them feel that we all care about them. And from the times of next generations not even a single outcry of liberation would be heard!

 

[SpArK]

Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript

Chinese response to the presence of its troops in Gilgit-Baltistan, an area described by its foreign ministry as "northern part of Pakistan", was curiously omitted in the official transcript, a day after it created a flutter in New Delhi.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu in her media briefing on Thursday, while refuting reports about the presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit-Baltistan area of Pakistan-Okupied Kashmir(P0K) referred to the areas as "northern part of Pakistan".

However, when the ministry posted the official transcript of the briefing on its website, hours after the meeting between Indian ambassador S Jaishankar and Chinese vice minister of foreign affairs where India conveyed its concerns over the Chinese "activities and presence" in P0K, the related question and answer were surprisingly missing.

"The story that China has deployed its military in northern part of Pakistan is totally groundless and out of ulterior purpose," she was quoted by her interpreter as saying in the regular briefing.

Jiang was asked about the reports of People's Liberation Army (PLA's) presence in Gilgit-Baltistan region of P0K.

Chinese officials address the media in Mandarin which is simultaneously translated by an interpreter through internal mike system for the foreign media.

There have been instances in the past when interpretation or translation of key words has not been accurate.

The transcript on the website, which is regarded as the most accurate version of the briefings for Beijing-based diplomats and foreign media, however carried her other remark terming Jammu and Kashmir as "Indian-held Kashmir".

Though awaited with renewed interest as it was expected to provide more clarity on China's stand on these critical bilateral issues, the absence of the reference to P0K once again brought to fore ambiguity to China's official stand on the Kashmir issue.


Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript - India - DNA

 

[SpArK]

Ammunition recovered from militant hideout in Jammu and Kashmir

Security forces today busted a militant hideout and recovered from it ammunition and various items from it in Pirn Panjal area of Reasi district in Jammu and Kashmir, a defence spokesperson said here.

On a tip off, Rashtriya Rifle (RR) troops and police launched a joint operation in Pir Panjal hills and busted a natural cave type of hideout at Bakri Ki Nari area of Mahore tehsil, 160km from here, in Reasi district , this afternoon, he said.

The recoveries from the hideout included fifty rounds of AK rifle ammunition, one round of rocket propelled gun, one antenna and a transistor, he said.

However, there was no militant present in the hideout at the time of the raid, he added.


Ammunition recovered from militant hideout in Jammu and Kashmir - India - DNA

 

[Awesome]

Read this from Time Magazine:

By January 1949, the U.N. succeeded in drawing a cease-fire line that gave a third of Kashmir to Pakistan and two thirds to India. Four times since, the U.N. has ordered that a plebiscite be held to determine the wishes of the people of Kashmir. Though Jawaharlal Nehru once vowed to "abide by the will of the Kashmiri people," India has always found reasons to avoid holding the referendum. Ex-Defense Minister Krishna Menon has bluntly explained why India opposes the plebiscite: "Because we would lose it." The popular Moslem leader, Sheik Abdullah, first supported union with India. When he changed his mind, the Indians clapped him in jail.

Asia: Ending the Suspense - TIME

Just so that I justify my comment on why the Indians are the sole morally bankrupt party in the whole Kashmir issue, this post by T-Faz says it all.

It's very convenient for India to say "Iss hamam main sab hi nangay hain", but in reality its only India that needs to pull up its trousers.

 

[somebozo]

Thora sa chini bhaio ko bhe dey do zalimoo..ya akele akele poora he kha jao ge
hindi-chini bhai bhai!!

 

[Coltsfan]

Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript

Chinese response to the presence of its troops in Gilgit-Baltistan, an area described by its foreign ministry as "northern part of Pakistan", was curiously omitted in the official transcript, a day after it created a flutter in New Delhi.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu in her media briefing on Thursday, while refuting reports about the presence of Chinese troops in Gilgit-Baltistan area of Pakistan-Okupied Kashmir(P0K) referred to the areas as "northern part of Pakistan".

However, when the ministry posted the official transcript of the briefing on its website, hours after the meeting between Indian ambassador S Jaishankar and Chinese vice minister of foreign affairs where India conveyed its concerns over the Chinese "activities and presence" in P0K, the related question and answer were surprisingly missing.

"The story that China has deployed its military in northern part of Pakistan is totally groundless and out of ulterior purpose," she was quoted by her interpreter as saying in the regular briefing.

Jiang was asked about the reports of People's Liberation Army (PLA's) presence in Gilgit-Baltistan region of P0K.

Chinese officials address the media in Mandarin which is simultaneously translated by an interpreter through internal mike system for the foreign media.

There have been instances in the past when interpretation or translation of key words has not been accurate.

The transcript on the website, which is regarded as the most accurate version of the briefings for Beijing-based diplomats and foreign media, however carried her other remark terming Jammu and Kashmir as "Indian-held Kashmir".

Though awaited with renewed interest as it was expected to provide more clarity on China's stand on these critical bilateral issues, the absence of the reference to P0K once again brought to fore ambiguity to China's official stand on the Kashmir issue.


Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript - India - DNA

Lost in translation?

 

[rajiv_kuin]

Now that they cant blame protesters as terrorists they are running out of ideas hence coming with this crap.

Well... they are not called terrorist cause they are not terrorists... its as simple as that...

 

[Pasban]

Two dozen wounded in Kashmir clashes
Sat Sep 4, 2010 2:39PM

Paramilitary soldiers and police fire teargas at stone-throwing protesters.


Fresh violent clashes between protesters and government forces have left some two dozen people injured in the Indian-administered Kashmir.

On Friday, thousands of people defied a ban on protest marches, taking to the streets of Srinagar, Kashmir's main city and the neighboring district of Budgam as well as other major towns across the Muslim-majority valley.

At least five people have been wounded after police opened fire to disperse the protesters in the northern Baramulla town. Two of them were seriously wounded and therefore were rushed to a hospital in Srinagar.

In addition, 19 more people have been injured as Police fired teargas and used batons to end anti-government protests in several other cities of the region.

The region has been rocked by anti-government demonstrations for months -- despite rolling curfews. Government forces are struggling to contain the ongoing demonstrations in the region.

The region's influential separatist politicians Syed Ali Geelani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik have led thousands in the disputed valley over the past weeks, after the police killed a teenage protester in early June.

They have threatened to continue the protests until India declares Kashmir an "international dispute" and releases all political prisoners.

About 65 Kashmiri protesters have been killed since June.

JR/PKH/MMN
PressTV - Two dozen wounded in Kashmir clashes

 

[BATMAN]

About 65 Kashmiri protesters have been killed since June.

Now calculate it counting backward from 1948.

 

[bandit]

Now calculate it counting backward from 1948.

Come back after you are finished counting, and I'll tell you why you are wrong.

Seems like Manmohan's orders of non-lethal means are being implemented, therefore no casualties and just wounded.

 

[eastwatch]

South Asian Media Net

Rocks, YouTube undergird J&K protests
Sunday, September 05,2010

SRINAGAR: A little-known Kashmiri separatist leader is spurring stone-throwing protests against India with tactics such as YouTube recruitment videos and protest calendars published in local media, fostering protracted violence that is bedeviling New Delhi.

In an interview, the leader, Masarat Alam Bhat, 39 years old, said these protests would intensify after the Muslim holiday of Eid-ul-Fitr, which this year falls around Sept. 10, unless India offers major concessions to appease protesters who want Kashmir to be its own nation or part of Pakistan.

Separatist demonstrations erupted this summer in the Indian-held portion of Kashmir, an area that was split between India and Pakistan in 1947 but that remains claimed in its entirety by both. Indian security forces countered violently, with more than 60 civilians killed since mid-June.

The government says publicly the protests are either backed by Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over Muslim-majority Kashmir, or are spontaneous and leaderless. But Mr. Bhat conveys a picture of a movement that is home-grown and highly organized.

"We are hopeful and sure we will win this war," Mr. Bhat, who rarely speaks to media, said from a location in Srinagar, the summer capital of India's Jammu and Kashmir state. He said he changes location every few hours to avoid arrest on charges of inciting violence. He said he isn't backed by Pakistan.

Mr. Bhat uses the Internet to spread his call to rise up for secession; in July, he made an impassioned video appeal, posted on YouTube, for Indian troops to leave the valley.

Perhaps his most significant innovation has been a "Protest Calendar" published in the local media that stipulates days for protests and closures of schools and shops. The calendar, which has largely been adhered to by both rural and urban Kashmiris, has brought the valley to a virtual economic standstill.

"People are all against India now. They will do anything," he said. "They will sacrifice anything."

The protests have largely been low-tech, with mostly young people turning out and throwing stones at Indian forces. No Indian security personnel have died, marking something of a public-relations victory for the protesters.

"Mass mobilization has happened before but never so systematic, never for so long and never so widespread. He's strategized it," says Sheikh Showkat Hussain, a law professor at the University of Kashmir.

Kashmir's new inspector general of police, S.M. Sahai, says authorities are seeking Mr. Bhat for playing a central role in the protests. He says he believes Mr. Bhat's core supporters, unemployed youths aged under 25 years old, have intimidated other Kashmiris to shut down schools and shops but that many are now tired of the closures.

A senior Indian Home Ministry official said Mr. Bhat was more radical—and has a larger support base—than other separatist leaders. "He represents the extreme form of Islamism in Kashmir," the official said, adding that his tactics will be fruitless: "We're not giving in to threats. There's no chance."

Mr. Bhat—a science graduate who speaks fluent English and wears a long, unkempt beard in the Islamic fashion—is the leader of a separatist party called the Muslim League. He is also the deputy of the hard-line faction of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a separatist group with conservative, Islamist leanings that rejects talks with India on Kashmir's status.

His group split off years ago from more moderate members, who back talks with India. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the leader of the more moderate splinter group, says the conservative movement has broad influence. "He's become an icon, a Robin Hood-type figure," Mr. Farooq says.

But Mr. Farooq says Mr. Bhat's non-stop strikes and other methods have filled young people with unrealistic expectations for independence. He also says Mr. Bhat has attempted to portray Kashmir as a religious battle between the local Muslim-majority population and Hindu-majority India. "He took a radical line in terms of Kashmir being an Islamic issue," he says. "We see it as a political problem."

The issue of Kashmir is crucial to regional peace and even the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.

During the 1990s, more than 60,000 people died in a struggle between militants, trained and funded by Pakistan, and security forces. India largely stamped out the rebellion using hundreds of thousands of troops.

India maintains more than half a million security forces in its part of Kashmir, creating a sense of military occupation. The U.S. believes the tensions are a major reason Pakistan doesn't deploy more troops to fight Taliban militants on its Afghanistan border.

In 2008, elections in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, for which two-thirds of the electorate turned out, led to hope that separatist tensions had declined. But separatist parties, including Mr. Bhat's, boycotted those polls, saying they were illegitimate. The failure of the pro-India state government to push through election promises, most importantly a demilitarization of Kashmir, boosted support for separatist politicians.

Mr. Bhat came to the fore just before those elections as a spokesman for separatist parties during mass protests in mid-2008 against the transfer of Kashmiri land for use by Hindu pilgrims. Police fired on those protests, killing scores of people.

Mr. Bhat became active in student politics in the late 1980s, after graduating from Srinagar's top Protestant missionary school. He said he has spent 17 years of the past two decades in jail for separatist activities but never fought as a militant. Police and Indian state officials confirm that account, saying he has been arrested only for unrest.

He was released from his latest stint in jail just before June 11, the day police fired tear gas shells to disburse a separatist demonstration in downtown Srinagar, killing a college student and igniting the current round of violence. Mr. Bhat quickly began organizing protests.

He acknowledges that he favors Kashmir ceding to Pakistan, an Islamic state, and believes the Quran should serve as the basis for law in the territory. Mr. Sahai, the police chief, says he has evidence Mr. Bhat's Muslim League receives funding and support from Pakistan-based Islamist groups. Mr. Bhat denies he has ties to Pakistani-based militant organizations or other global Islamist groups. He says he respects non-Muslims.

"We are not having an international agenda. We are not against America. We are against Indian occupation," says Mr. Bhat, sitting on the floor of a sparse room in a two-story brick house in Srinagar's old town, a warren of narrow lanes overlooked by a Mughal-era fort.

A supporter locks the door from outside. Mr. Bhat says he has been able to evade capture for three months because India's intelligence apparatus has broken down amid the protests. "If I'm at large it's because of the people," he says, speaking softly and averting his eyes.

Mr. Bhat says that for the current violence to stop, India must first agree that Kashmir is an international dispute and hold a plebiscite over the future of the territory. It must also take measures such as withdrawing troops and reforming a law that shields Indian security forces from prosecution for human-rights abuses.

The government has intimated in recent weeks it is willing to offer limited compromises, such as revisions to army-impunity laws and some troop draw-downs, but only after the current round of violence is quelled.

WSJ |

 

[eastwatch]

Come back after you are finished counting, and I'll tell you why you are wrong.

How about the counting given below? It says only of 1990s.


Rocks, YouTube undergird J&K protests
Sunday, September 05,2010

SRINAGAR: During the 1990s, more than 60,000 people died in a struggle between militants, trained and funded by Pakistan, and security forces. India largely stamped out the rebellion using hundreds of thousands of troops.

 

[Patrician]

How about the counting given below? It says only of 1990s.


Rocks, YouTube undergird J&K protests
Sunday, September 05,2010

SRINAGAR: During the 1990s, more than 60,000 people died in a struggle between militants, trained and funded by Pakistan, and security forces. India largely stamped out the rebellion using hundreds of thousands of troops.

Either it missed your eyespan or you do not understand plain, simple english. Pick one.

One very basic thing.

In kashmir there have been human rights violations and there's no gainsaying that. But do keep one very important thing in mind, wherever there is a rebellion and a resulting struggle between the forces of that country and rebels, there are bound to be civilian casualties. Denying it is only fooling oneself.

It is not some rocket science which is soooooooo difficult to understand. It is plain and simple common sense.

I can cite many examples from human history to prove my point. How about we start with the country whose flag you've put on?

Shall we start counting?