RPK
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Kashmir | News & Discussions.
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Awesome
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It's better if you stop presupposing things based "tones" and stick to facts. Next you'll say at the UNSC meetings Pakistani eyebrows were raised or lowered and that means this n that. Please stick to something you can state that is backed with actual evidence.
Pakistan accepts all UNSC resolutions on Kashmir- UNSC resolution 98 included. But the funny thing is you still haven't backed up your statement with any source that Pakistan got the independence option removed.
"Removed" is a past tense verb. Its an action word. Please prove to me that this action was ever performed...
It's like asking the defendant in a murder trial "Why did you kill so and so"... First you got to prove that the defendant even killed that person.
You question is as absurd as India's entire position on Kashmir.
Again, note, Pakistan is not demanding the Independence option as per the UNSC resolutions, we're demanding plebiscite as stipulated in the UNSC resolutions. But this is a special offer from us to you, a favor, a generosity, that we're saying "Ok don't lose at the plebiscite and face the embarrassment of giving us Kashmir, we'll call it a day and let the Kashmiris go independent".
Either you play by UNSC, or you play be the compromise. From our perspective we can demand that we stick to the UNSC resolution and why introduce the independence option? But we're offering something to you, that we know is also acceptable to the Kashmiris, totally out of the goodness of our hearts.
Take it or return to the UNSC demand of choosing between India and Pakistan. Your choice.
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Creder
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SRINAGAR, IndiaA little-known Kashmiri separatist leader is spurring stone-throwing protests against India with tactics such as YouTube recruitment videos and protest calendars published in local media, fostering protracted violence that is bedeviling New Delhi.
In an interview, the leader, Masarat Alam Bhat, 39 years old, said these protests would intensify after the Muslim holiday of Eid-ul-Fitr, which this year falls around Sept. 10, unless India offers major concessions to appease protesters who want Kashmir to be its own nation or part of Pakistan.
Separatist demonstrations erupted this summer in the Indian-held portion of Kashmir, an area that was split between India and Pakistan in 1947 but that remains claimed in its entirety by both. Indian security forces countered violently, with more than 60 civilians killed since mid-June.
The government says publicly the protests are either backed by Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over Muslim-majority Kashmir, or are spontaneous and leaderless. But Mr. Bhat conveys a picture of a movement that is home-grown and highly organized.
"We are hopeful and sure we will win this war," Mr. Bhat, who rarely speaks to media, said from a location in Srinagar, the summer capital of India's Jammu and Kashmir state. He said he changes location every few hours to avoid arrest on charges of inciting violence. He said he isn't backed by Pakistan.
Mr. Bhat uses the Internet to spread his call to rise up for secession; in July, he made an impassioned video appeal, posted on YouTube, for Indian troops to leave the valley.
Perhaps his most significant innovation has been a "Protest Calendar" published in the local media that stipulates days for protests and closures of schools and shops. The calendar, which has largely been adhered to by both rural and urban Kashmiris, has brought the valley to a virtual economic standstill.
"People are all against India now. They will do anything," he said. "They will sacrifice anything."
The protests have largely been low-tech, with mostly young people turning out and throwing stones at Indian forces. No Indian security personnel have died, marking something of a public-relations victory for the protesters.
"Mass mobilization has happened before but never so systematic, never for so long and never so widespread. He's strategized it," says Sheikh Showkat Hussain, a law professor at the University of Kashmir.
View Full Image
Associated Press
Kashmiri Muslims gather to listen to a separatist leader Friday in Charar Sharief, about 25 miles from Srinagar in India's Jammu and Kashmir state.
Kashmir's new inspector general of police, S.M. Sahai, says authorities are seeking Mr. Bhat for playing a central role in the protests. He says he believes Mr. Bhat's core supporters, unemployed youths aged under 25 years old, have intimidated other Kashmiris to shut down schools and shops but that many are now tired of the closures.
A senior Indian Home Ministry official said Mr. Bhat was more radicaland has a larger support basethan other separatist leaders. "He represents the extreme form of Islamism in Kashmir," the official said, adding that his tactics will be fruitless: "We're not giving in to threats. There's no chance."
Mr. Bhata science graduate who speaks fluent English and wears a long, unkempt beard in the Islamic fashionis the leader of a separatist party called the Muslim League. He is also the deputy of the hard-line faction of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a separatist group with conservative, Islamist leanings that rejects talks with India on Kashmir's status.
His group split off years ago from more moderate members, who back talks with India. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the leader of the more moderate splinter group, says the conservative movement has broad influence. "He's become an icon, a Robin Hood-type figure," Mr. Farooq says.
But Mr. Farooq says Mr. Bhat's non-stop strikes and other methods have filled young people with unrealistic expectations for independence. He also says Mr. Bhat has attempted to portray Kashmir as a religious battle between the local Muslim-majority population and Hindu-majority India. "He took a radical line in terms of Kashmir being an Islamic issue," he says. "We see it as a political problem."
The issue of Kashmir is crucial to regional peace and even the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.
During the 1990s, more than 60,000 people died in a struggle between militants, trained and funded by Pakistan, and security forces. India largely stamped out the rebellion using hundreds of thousands of troops.
India maintains more than half a million security forces in its part of Kashmir, creating a sense of military occupation. The U.S. believes the tensions are a major reason Pakistan doesn't deploy more troops to fight Taliban militants on its Afghanistan border.
In 2008, elections in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, for which two-thirds of the electorate turned out, led to hope that separatist tensions had declined. But separatist parties, including Mr. Bhat's, boycotted those polls, saying they were illegitimate. The failure of the pro-India state government to push through election promises, most importantly a demilitarization of Kashmir, boosted support for separatist politicians.
Mr. Bhat came to the fore just before those elections as a spokesman for separatist parties during mass protests in mid-2008 against the transfer of Kashmiri land for use by Hindu pilgrims. Police fired on those protests, killing scores of people.
Mr. Bhat became active in student politics in the late 1980s, after graduating from Srinagar's top Protestant missionary school. He said he has spent 17 years of the past two decades in jail for separatist activities but never fought as a militant. Police and Indian state officials confirm that account, saying he has been arrested only for unrest.
He was released from his latest stint in jail just before June 11, the day police fired tear gas shells to disburse a separatist demonstration in downtown Srinagar, killing a college student and igniting the current round of violence. Mr. Bhat quickly began organizing protests.
He acknowledges that he favors Kashmir ceding to Pakistan, an Islamic state, and believes the Quran should serve as the basis for law in the territory. Mr. Sahai, the police chief, says he has evidence Mr. Bhat's Muslim League receives funding and support from Pakistan-based Islamist groups. Mr. Bhat denies he has ties to Pakistani-based militant organizations or other global Islamist groups. He says he respects non-Muslims.
"We are not having an international agenda. We are not against America. We are against Indian occupation," says Mr. Bhat, sitting on the floor of a sparse room in a two-story brick house in Srinagar's old town, a warren of narrow lanes overlooked by a Mughal-era fort.
A supporter locks the door from outside. Mr. Bhat says he has been able to evade capture for three months because India's intelligence apparatus has broken down amid the protests. "If I'm at large it's because of the people," he says, speaking softly and averting his eyes.
Mr. Bhat says that for the current violence to stop, India must first agree that Kashmir is an international dispute and hold a plebiscite over the future of the territory. It must also take measures such as withdrawing troops and reforming a law that shields Indian security forces from prosecution for human-rights abuses.
The government has intimated in recent weeks it is willing to offer limited compromises, such as revisions to army-impunity laws and some troop draw-downs, but only after the current round of violence is quelled.
Write to Tom Wright at tom.wright@wsj.com or @TomWrightAsia
In an interview, the leader, Masarat Alam Bhat, 39 years old, said these protests would intensify after the Muslim holiday of Eid-ul-Fitr, which this year falls around Sept. 10, unless India offers major concessions to appease protesters who want Kashmir to be its own nation or part of Pakistan.
Separatist demonstrations erupted this summer in the Indian-held portion of Kashmir, an area that was split between India and Pakistan in 1947 but that remains claimed in its entirety by both. Indian security forces countered violently, with more than 60 civilians killed since mid-June.
The government says publicly the protests are either backed by Pakistan, which has fought two wars with India over Muslim-majority Kashmir, or are spontaneous and leaderless. But Mr. Bhat conveys a picture of a movement that is home-grown and highly organized.
"We are hopeful and sure we will win this war," Mr. Bhat, who rarely speaks to media, said from a location in Srinagar, the summer capital of India's Jammu and Kashmir state. He said he changes location every few hours to avoid arrest on charges of inciting violence. He said he isn't backed by Pakistan.
Mr. Bhat uses the Internet to spread his call to rise up for secession; in July, he made an impassioned video appeal, posted on YouTube, for Indian troops to leave the valley.
Perhaps his most significant innovation has been a "Protest Calendar" published in the local media that stipulates days for protests and closures of schools and shops. The calendar, which has largely been adhered to by both rural and urban Kashmiris, has brought the valley to a virtual economic standstill.
"People are all against India now. They will do anything," he said. "They will sacrifice anything."
The protests have largely been low-tech, with mostly young people turning out and throwing stones at Indian forces. No Indian security personnel have died, marking something of a public-relations victory for the protesters.
"Mass mobilization has happened before but never so systematic, never for so long and never so widespread. He's strategized it," says Sheikh Showkat Hussain, a law professor at the University of Kashmir.
View Full Image
Associated Press
Kashmiri Muslims gather to listen to a separatist leader Friday in Charar Sharief, about 25 miles from Srinagar in India's Jammu and Kashmir state.
Kashmir's new inspector general of police, S.M. Sahai, says authorities are seeking Mr. Bhat for playing a central role in the protests. He says he believes Mr. Bhat's core supporters, unemployed youths aged under 25 years old, have intimidated other Kashmiris to shut down schools and shops but that many are now tired of the closures.
A senior Indian Home Ministry official said Mr. Bhat was more radicaland has a larger support basethan other separatist leaders. "He represents the extreme form of Islamism in Kashmir," the official said, adding that his tactics will be fruitless: "We're not giving in to threats. There's no chance."
Mr. Bhata science graduate who speaks fluent English and wears a long, unkempt beard in the Islamic fashionis the leader of a separatist party called the Muslim League. He is also the deputy of the hard-line faction of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a separatist group with conservative, Islamist leanings that rejects talks with India on Kashmir's status.
His group split off years ago from more moderate members, who back talks with India. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the leader of the more moderate splinter group, says the conservative movement has broad influence. "He's become an icon, a Robin Hood-type figure," Mr. Farooq says.
But Mr. Farooq says Mr. Bhat's non-stop strikes and other methods have filled young people with unrealistic expectations for independence. He also says Mr. Bhat has attempted to portray Kashmir as a religious battle between the local Muslim-majority population and Hindu-majority India. "He took a radical line in terms of Kashmir being an Islamic issue," he says. "We see it as a political problem."
The issue of Kashmir is crucial to regional peace and even the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.
During the 1990s, more than 60,000 people died in a struggle between militants, trained and funded by Pakistan, and security forces. India largely stamped out the rebellion using hundreds of thousands of troops.
India maintains more than half a million security forces in its part of Kashmir, creating a sense of military occupation. The U.S. believes the tensions are a major reason Pakistan doesn't deploy more troops to fight Taliban militants on its Afghanistan border.
In 2008, elections in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, for which two-thirds of the electorate turned out, led to hope that separatist tensions had declined. But separatist parties, including Mr. Bhat's, boycotted those polls, saying they were illegitimate. The failure of the pro-India state government to push through election promises, most importantly a demilitarization of Kashmir, boosted support for separatist politicians.
Mr. Bhat came to the fore just before those elections as a spokesman for separatist parties during mass protests in mid-2008 against the transfer of Kashmiri land for use by Hindu pilgrims. Police fired on those protests, killing scores of people.
Mr. Bhat became active in student politics in the late 1980s, after graduating from Srinagar's top Protestant missionary school. He said he has spent 17 years of the past two decades in jail for separatist activities but never fought as a militant. Police and Indian state officials confirm that account, saying he has been arrested only for unrest.
He was released from his latest stint in jail just before June 11, the day police fired tear gas shells to disburse a separatist demonstration in downtown Srinagar, killing a college student and igniting the current round of violence. Mr. Bhat quickly began organizing protests.
He acknowledges that he favors Kashmir ceding to Pakistan, an Islamic state, and believes the Quran should serve as the basis for law in the territory. Mr. Sahai, the police chief, says he has evidence Mr. Bhat's Muslim League receives funding and support from Pakistan-based Islamist groups. Mr. Bhat denies he has ties to Pakistani-based militant organizations or other global Islamist groups. He says he respects non-Muslims.
"We are not having an international agenda. We are not against America. We are against Indian occupation," says Mr. Bhat, sitting on the floor of a sparse room in a two-story brick house in Srinagar's old town, a warren of narrow lanes overlooked by a Mughal-era fort.
A supporter locks the door from outside. Mr. Bhat says he has been able to evade capture for three months because India's intelligence apparatus has broken down amid the protests. "If I'm at large it's because of the people," he says, speaking softly and averting his eyes.
Mr. Bhat says that for the current violence to stop, India must first agree that Kashmir is an international dispute and hold a plebiscite over the future of the territory. It must also take measures such as withdrawing troops and reforming a law that shields Indian security forces from prosecution for human-rights abuses.
The government has intimated in recent weeks it is willing to offer limited compromises, such as revisions to army-impunity laws and some troop draw-downs, but only after the current round of violence is quelled.
Write to Tom Wright at tom.wright@wsj.com or @TomWrightAsia
Politics apart, it may not be possible for India to take any steps on Kashmir that may jeopardise its own survival. Water MAY be the main issue behind Indian insistence on holding Kashmir. Kashmir is the main source of water to Pakistan, India and even Bangladesh. An independent Kashmir may take away the rights to water from India to a Pakistan-influenced Kashmir.
In case of Pakistan, the part of Kashmir it is holding is also giving it the land route to China. An independent Kashmir will force Pakistan to relnquish that right to connectivity.
An independent Kashmir, therefore, becomes a two-way sword that cuts both Pakistan and India. I just do not know if Pakistan has relinquished its Independent Kashmir option, or if Pakistan ever had accepted this as its policy. But, Pakistan, certainly wants not to relinquish its claim on Kashmir whatever may the colour of flag of today's Azaad Kashmir.
In case of Pakistan, the part of Kashmir it is holding is also giving it the land route to China. An independent Kashmir will force Pakistan to relnquish that right to connectivity.
An independent Kashmir, therefore, becomes a two-way sword that cuts both Pakistan and India. I just do not know if Pakistan has relinquished its Independent Kashmir option, or if Pakistan ever had accepted this as its policy. But, Pakistan, certainly wants not to relinquish its claim on Kashmir whatever may the colour of flag of today's Azaad Kashmir.
Patrician
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Fair enough
So you do accept that 'independence' was, at least back then in 1947, not an option for kashmir because UN res. (backed by GoP) don't have any word such as 'independence'? Let's forget for a second that it is 2010. Go back a little in time, to 1947, and then answer my question.
Ok let's make it ' India & Pakistan got 'independence' removed as an option. Will that be fine with you? I'm no sensitive. Are you?
You are giving conflicting replies my friend. On one hand you say "we don't want 'independence' option". On other hand you say "We want kashmiris to decide their future."
I'm sooooooo confused.
Oh wait!
You mean to say this "We want kashmiris to decide their future but we want them to join us"
That's nothing but what YOU just SAID!
Thanks but no thanks. By the way, we are not talking about emotions or ethics here. We are talking about pure, hard facts. And dear friend, when it comes to hard fact, GoP's position is self-contradictory in itself.
We are fine without UN. Again, thanks but no thanks.
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HAIDER
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India has cancelled defence exchanges with China after China refused a visa to a Kashmir-based general.
The Indian government said that China had to be sensitive to India's concerns, one of which is the disputed area of Kashmir.
As well as India and Pakistan, China also claims part of Kashmir.
Defence ties between China and India have remained tentative due to long-standing disputes and a lack of trust; the two fought a short war in 1962.
Indian Lt Gen BS Jaswal is responsible for Indian army operations in the Indian-administered state of Jammu and Kashmir.
He had hoped to travel to Beijing in August as part of a high-level exchange, but was denied a visa.
Old tensions
"While we value our exchanges with China, there must be sensitivity to each others' concerns. Our dialogue with China on these issues is ongoing," India's foreign ministry spokesman said in a statement.
The Times of India said the row had blocked the visit of Indian generals to China and another planned visit of Chinese generals to India.
The Indian foreign ministry noted that defence exchanges with China in recent years had proven "useful".
China and India fought a short border war in 1962. China is strongly critical of India for granting residence to the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.
It is also close to India's traditional foe, Pakistan, with whom it is cooperating on military and missile development, cross-border infrastructure, and a deep-water port.
Last year, India protested against the Chinese practice of issuing visas to Kashmiris on separate pieces of paper, unlike the standard visas it offered to other Indians.
The disputed status of Kashmir has been behind two of the three wars between India and Pakistan; the two countries each administer part of Kashmir but claim the territory in full.
China maintains that part of Kashmir should be in Tibet, which it claims.
A separatist insurgency in Kashmir has killed tens of thousands of people since it began in 1989.
BBC News - India cancels China defence exchanges after visa row
The Indian government said that China had to be sensitive to India's concerns, one of which is the disputed area of Kashmir.
As well as India and Pakistan, China also claims part of Kashmir.
Defence ties between China and India have remained tentative due to long-standing disputes and a lack of trust; the two fought a short war in 1962.
Indian Lt Gen BS Jaswal is responsible for Indian army operations in the Indian-administered state of Jammu and Kashmir.
He had hoped to travel to Beijing in August as part of a high-level exchange, but was denied a visa.
Old tensions
"While we value our exchanges with China, there must be sensitivity to each others' concerns. Our dialogue with China on these issues is ongoing," India's foreign ministry spokesman said in a statement.
The Times of India said the row had blocked the visit of Indian generals to China and another planned visit of Chinese generals to India.
The Indian foreign ministry noted that defence exchanges with China in recent years had proven "useful".
China and India fought a short border war in 1962. China is strongly critical of India for granting residence to the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.
It is also close to India's traditional foe, Pakistan, with whom it is cooperating on military and missile development, cross-border infrastructure, and a deep-water port.
Last year, India protested against the Chinese practice of issuing visas to Kashmiris on separate pieces of paper, unlike the standard visas it offered to other Indians.
The disputed status of Kashmir has been behind two of the three wars between India and Pakistan; the two countries each administer part of Kashmir but claim the territory in full.
China maintains that part of Kashmir should be in Tibet, which it claims.
A separatist insurgency in Kashmir has killed tens of thousands of people since it began in 1989.
BBC News - India cancels China defence exchanges after visa row
Chinese response to the presence of its troops in Gilgit-Baltistan, an area described by its foreign ministry as "northern part of Pakistan", was curiously omitted in the official transcript, a day after it created a flutter in New Delhi.
However, when the Chinese ministry posted the official transcript of the briefing on its website,
hours after the meeting between Indian ambassador S Jaishankar and Chinese vice minister of foreign affairs where India conveyed its concerns over the Chinese "activities and presence" in ***, the related question and answer were surprisingly missing.
Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript - India - DNA
However, when the Chinese ministry posted the official transcript of the briefing on its website,
hours after the meeting between Indian ambassador S Jaishankar and Chinese vice minister of foreign affairs where India conveyed its concerns over the Chinese "activities and presence" in ***, the related question and answer were surprisingly missing.Chinese response on Gilgit issue missing from official transcript - India - DNA
gregarious
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I didnt know that China also needed stake in Kashmir..this is news to me
Socrates
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We need to make sure that such an uprising mustnt happen again by strengthening our intelligence activities in the region. Crack this seperatist ideology forever , by providing them good education and help them get rid of the clutches of religious fundamentalism.
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lalluyadav
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let china to claim.wat alone claims can do??
bandit
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The official stand of the Pakistan government is that they support a plebiscite with only India or Pakistan as an option. There is no option for Independence, therefore all talk of supporting independence for Kashmir is mere rhetoric by Pakistanis with no substance at all.
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