Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

When people start resorting to arguments like 'so what, do what you can, we are too strong, blah, blah, blah', you know that they have utterly and completely lost the moral, ethical and legal arguments supporting their case.

Those kinds of arguments are pretty much all you see from Indians nowadays.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As years go by ...As new generations come...as government carries out developmental activities.....you will suddenly find that Kashmir has become an integral part of India --just as it was... Nothing did and nothing will change it.

Thanks.

That is what Indians were saying ten years ago too, and this time around it is those who have benefited from 'developmental activities' -college students, professionals etc. - who are part and parcel of the protests.

 

[sunny001]

There is no point to this discussion. India is not going to let kashmir go that easily. No matter what Pakistanis like to believe, no country could ever coerce India into giving up Kashmir. They can't do it now, they could never do it ten years down the line.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is no point to this discussion. India is not going to let kashmir go that easily. No matter what Pakistanis like to believe, no country could ever coerce India into giving up Kashmir. They can't do it now, they could never do it ten years down the line.

Again, when people lose all moral, ethical and legal arguments on an issue, they resort to 'you can't make me'. The latter is pretty much standard fare from Indians of late.

 

[brahmastra]

Indian forces were in clashing with the Nawab's forces in October 1947, for all intents and purposes Indian intervention either preceded the Tribal invasion or was around the same time, hence it is very valid to raise Jungadh when Indians start moaning about Pakistani military action in J&K in 1947.

And Siachen preceded Kargil, so it is very relevant in terms of Indians raising the issue of Kargil.

doesn't that mean gaining those undecided princely state by invading suite us but you(as both invaded undecided states as around sametime ). and that is the reason about all these crying by pakistan now.

 

[sunny001]

Again, when people lose all moral, ethical and legal arguments on an issue, they resort to 'you can't make me'. The latter is pretty much standard fare from Indians of late.

Yes, I could talk of morals, ethics or whatever. But what's the point. GOI could never give away Kashmir for the fear of loosing power for next 20 years at least. Pakistan or any other country for that matter couldn't force India do so. So ya, no point in discussion.

No matter what you and I discuss ground reality is not gonna change. You say India has no morals, I would say look at Pakistan first. This would go on for few hours. And all this wouldn't make an ounce of difference, would it? Why waste both our precious time?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, I could talk of morals, ethics and whatever. But what's the point. GOI could never give away Kashmir for the fear of loosing power for next 20 years at least. Pakistan or any other country for that matter could force India do so. So ya, no point in discussion.

No matter what you and I discuss ground reality is not gonna change. You say India has no morals, I would say look at Pakistan first. This would go on for few hours. And all this wouldn't make an ounce of difference, would it? Why waste both our precious time?

Yes precisely, see post above.

Why even bother to respond when you admit you have lost moral, ethical and legal arguments? There is certainly no point reiterating 'you can't make me', like a child of four.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

doesn't that mean gaining those undecided princely state by invading suite us but you(as both invaded undecided states as around sametime ). and that is the reason about all these crying by pakistan now.

Junagadh was not 'undecided'. The Nawab had signed the instrument of accession and had it delivered to Pakistan in September. India was aware of this. There are over a dozen diplomatic cables between the two governments outlining India's displeasure with the Nawab's decision and demanding that Pakistan annul the accession.

 

[sunny001]

Yes precisely, see post above.

Why even bother to respond when you admit you have lost moral, ethical and legal arguments? There is certainly no point reiterating 'you can't make me', like a child of four.

When did I admit India or me has lost morals. I just said there is no point in discussing morals because that would lead to nothing. If you can't read the comprehension, please do not come up with the twisted conclusions.

'Four year old' is not me but you, as you keep coming back to morals when there is no point in discussing them. We can come back to reasoning when GOI has any intentions of doing a referendum in Kashmir.

 

[RamGorur]

Indian forces were in clashing with the Nawab's forces in October 1947, for all intents and purposes Indian intervention either preceded the Tribal invasion or was around the same time, hence it is very valid to raise Jungadh when Indians start moaning about Pakistani military action in J&K in 1947.

If by intervention you mean military intervention then, for all intents and purpose, it came after the tribal invasion of Kashmir. Diplomatic intervention was however in India’s right given that Nawab’s execution of IoA in favour of Pakistan, and Pakistan’s acceptance of such IoA, was against the spirit of understanding reached between the two nations, regarding the accession of Princely States.

In any case it doesn’t matter what precedes another because via Mountbatten India had made it clear that India was amenable to a plebiscite in Junagadh, Kashmir and Hyderabad under the auspices of UN. Just as India expected Pakistan to reject the accession of Junagadh simply on the basis of IoA, India was ready to reject the accession of Kashmir on similar basis, and leave the decision on finality of such accession to respective constituents.

That was on 1st Nov, 1947, before India even entered Junagadh. That rejection, by Jinnah no less, robbed Pakistan of any moral or ethical ground to claim plebiscite in Kashmir or accusing India of hypocrisy.

And Siachen preceded Kargil, so it is very relevant in terms of Indians raising the issue of Kargil.

According to Gen. Musharraf (In The Line of Fire), Pakistan itself was planning to sneak up on India and leave it with a fait accompli at Siachen. India got wind of it and apparently, according to the good General, it was because of the faulty planning on Pakistan’s part, particularly about the timing of the operation, that India was able to steal a march on Pakistan.

Its like initiating a race and then on loosing one’s own race, accusing the winner for winning.

 

[indianpatriot]

1.the day Kashmir becomes independent...it will act like a gift state by Pakistani govt for Taliban and Al qaeeda which will then shift from swat to Indian Kashmir an save Pakistan from falling apart and will also pinch India in Himanchal Pradesh and Jammu.....

2.Kashmir will become like erstwhile Afganistan with strict Sharia Laws and human right violations more than claimed by Pakistan by India on Kashmiris.

3.and all this regardless Kashmir becomes part of Pakistan or remains independent in latter case a furious and frustrated Pakistan will send violence through borders to teach Kashmiris a lesson for not joining Pakistan quite similar to what happened in East Bengal.

4.Then Kashmir will come back crying to India again for help....

 

[ejaz007]

As years go by ...As new generations come...as government carries out developmental activities.....you will suddenly find that Kashmir has become an integral part of India --just as it was... Nothing did and nothing will change it.

Thanks.

The reality on the ground is different. The first generation during 50's only waited for India and Pakistan to decide. The second generation during 70's protested peacefully for their right to self determination. The third generation during 90's took up arms and started fighting. So with every change of generation the tactics have also changed and become bloodier than before.

With every coming of new generation the hatred has only increased instead of decreasing let alone remaining the same.

 

[k7x]

1.the day Kashmir becomes independent...it will act like a gift state by Pakistani govt for Taliban and Al qaeeda which will then shift from swat to Indian Kashmir an save Pakistan from falling apart and will also pinch India in Himanchal Pradesh and Jammu.....

2.Kashmir will become like erstwhile Afganistan with strict Sharia Laws and human right violations more than claimed by Pakistan by India on Kashmiris.

3.and all this regardless Kashmir becomes part of Pakistan or remains independent in latter case a furious and frustrated Pakistan will send violence through borders to teach Kashmiris a lesson for not joining Pakistan quite similar to what happened in East Bengal.

4.Then Kashmir will come back crying to India again for help....

dont speak about the Pakistan action....

1.They can use F16 and even they will use JF17 to bomb the terrorist in their soil. that is fine for them . but if India kills those innocent terrorist who crosses LOC from Pakistan side they are freedom fighters and innocents ...India does not have any value for Human rights..

2.In Baluchistan they will use army/isi/air force to kill the separatist leader, but in India , Mr Gilani and his Huriyat folks are getting police protection and even then they will complain Inida does not have any human rights.

3. Few Months before they complained Inida is trying to make pakistan a dessert. India was telling build a dam and utilize water properly. but they told next war will be for water with Inida , now there is so much flood, in few months they will again blame for Inida for flood as well as drought. again India is the enemy

4. How many people are getting killed in Pakistan a day, and how many people are getting Killed in kashmir a day, the ratio will speak for it.

In pakistan innocents are getting killed , I mean innocent here because these are people who dont have any idea about what is going to happen to them. like market , places of worship schools etc.

In Inida a 1000s as a mob coming to torch and stone a police station should be knowing that police have guns in their hands and they are not innocents as per the police point of view.. again Inida does not compare to treating innocent fairly

5. In China people are not allowed to pray during Ramadan using loudspeaker, no public worship allowed etc etc.. but still they are there best friends for Pak, because of unknown reason.

In Inida tax collected from all people including hindus will be used to send 1000s of Muslims to Haj ...and still we are enemy number 1


People in Pakistan have so far passed the blame to others and never bothered about present. Armed forces runns and enjoys because of single reason. India.

If Inida wanted to Invade Pakistan , it would have done long back, if it wants land we have some small countries next to us but have we taken an inch from them ... but see , China claims part of Kashmir, and you have gifted your part of Kashmir to your true friend.

Truth is always bitter and it needs lots of courage to accept it. Pakistan uses hate against india as the source of National integrity. so till that attitude change nothing will change..

 

[Krazy-blazer]

First give full freedom to ur own women-they have there right to decide there fate

then u can talk about others

Good job throwing out stereotypes, who the hell told you they don't?

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

'India represents fear and terror in Kashmir'​

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: A Kashmiri student stunned Nitin Gadkari, the president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), by telling him that India in Kashmir represented fear and terror.

A student delegation, arranged by the Shyama Prasad Muherjee Foundation, a think-tank to showcase them to BJP president, pleaded the Indian public to listen to their aspirations.

An eloquent Afsana, a student delegate, told the BJP president that India had long represented fear and terror. "I mean, when the word 'India' comes to a Kashmiri's mind, a common Kashmiri, what comes in mind is a soldier with a gun in his hand. Fear and terror is all what a common Kashmiri feels," she said. The students also asked him to understand the Kashmiri youth and their aspirations.

"It's really nice to be here and to see that there are wonderful people around in India who are really ready to listen to us, to listen to our aspirations, to listen to what we feel. It's really, really good to be here and nice to know how wonderful Indian people are," she added.

Over 56 students from Kashmir University, Islamic University for Science and Technology and other professional colleges are in New Delhi to interact with Union Home Minister P Chidambaram, BJP leader Sushma Swaraj, Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan and Chief Election Commissioner SY Quarishi.

Gadkari, however, said Kashmir is an inseparable part of India and the people of Kashmir have the right to develop. "I feel that we all should understand the basic grassroots' problems. We agree that Kashmir is an inseparable part of India. We cannot tolerate its separation from India. I also agree that people who stay there, we don't have any problem with their religious rights," said Gadkari.

Gadkari accused Pakistan of waging a "proxy war" on India through "terrorism". Asked why the government had adopted an "appeasement policy" for separatists despite knowing who are the "instigators of violence" in the valley, Gadkari said, "Politics need some qualitative change. Our national issue should not be mixed up with the vote bank policy. That is the problem."

"Nehru accepted special status to Indian-held Kashmir. Our party does not agree to it," Gadkari said. He also said his party did not have any objection to the "religious rights" of the Kashmiris but he did not elaborate further.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan