Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[EjazR]

Omar,
Can you speak Gojri? does Pakistan even recognise Gojri as a language?

Gujjar language and culture are more secure in India than Pakistan.

You can keep trying to make yourself happy with revisionist history but that will not change the facts.

 

[Omar1984]

Omar,
Can you speak Gojri? does Pakistan even recognise Gojri as a language?

Gujjar language and culture are more secure in India than Pakistan.

You can keep trying to make yourself happy with revisionist history but that will not change the facts.

Gojri is like Pahari. We speak that in Pakistan also.

The only Muslim Gujjars that india controls are in India Occupied Jammu and Kashmir. Indian side of Punjab and rest of india has sikh and hindu gujars who are different from us. they mix in their hindu rituals with the culture and are totally different.

In Pakistan, Gujars are everywhere. We are one of the largest clans in Pakistan especially in Punjab province and in Azad Kashmir. In every field in Pakistan you will find a Gujjar. What about india, how many have you seen in tamil nadu

 

[LaBong]

India needs to maneuver it's policy and politics so that a state with Muslim majority won't feel alienated from the rest of the country. But also some kinda Kashmiri racial supremacy also comes into equation in this case.

 

[LaBong]

In Pakistan, Gujars are everywhere. We are one of the largest clans in Pakistan especially in Punjab province and in Azad Kashmir. In every field in Pakistan you will find a Gujjar. What about india, how many have you seen in tamil nadu

Sorry I didn't understand your logic. Pakistan though not as heterogeneous as India, has noticeable diversity. There are Pathans, Sindhis, Baloochs, Rajpoots, different clans of Punjabis, some Central Asians. Not sure if Gujjars are everywhere and in every fields.

In India, gujjars are where they supposed to be and in positions where they deserved to be in. They can move to Tamil Nadu or any other state if they wish to. :s

 

[EjazR]

So Omar

you dont speak Gojri then.

There are Gujjar muslims stretching from Gujrat - Rajasthan - Punjab Haryana to J&K.
The biggest group of Gujjar muslims in India are found in Rajasthan.

And I am not wrong when I say that pro-sepratists treat Gujjars with contempt. The links that I posted are from local J&K sources. One of them is a Gujjar muslim author from J&K Dr Javaid Rahi.

 

[Omar1984]

So Omar

you dont speak Gojri then.

There are Gujjar muslims stretching from Gujrat - Rajasthan - Punjab Haryana to J&K.
The biggest group of Gujjar muslims in India are found in Rajasthan.

And I am not wrong when I say that pro-sepratists treat Gujjars with contempt. The links that I posted are from local J&K sources. One of them is a Gujjar muslim author from J&K Dr Javaid Rahi.

Gujratis Rajasthanis and the rest of you dravadians are totally different from Gujjars in Pakistan and Kashmir.


Majority of Gujjars in Pakistan speak Pahari, Hindko, Punjabi, and Pashto not anything what a rajasthani, gujrati, or any south indian speaks. We are distinct from hindustani gujratis and rest of south indians. And a Muslim Gujjar is very different from a hindu.

 

[EjazR]

@Omar1984

I think this will be last reply to you on this thread.
You have not and can not cite any source to prove any of these claims. You can't provide any proof that all Gujjars where with Jinnah let aone proof that Rajasthani Gujjars are not Gujjars. You dont even know what my ethnic make up is but you feel comfortable in making snide racist comments. A Dravidian muslim who is more pious than you is much better than you no matter how "good looking" you are.

You have a racist mindset which is completely UnIslamic and have taken the thread completley offtopic. No wonder Indian Gujjars be they from Jammu Kashmri or Rajasthan e.t.c would never be a part of Pakistan were people like you are present. You can't even speak Gojri yet you claim to be Gujjar. You probably have no idea of Gujjar culture as Pakistan has done nothing to promote its language let along the culture. May God give help you and bless you in this month of Ramadan.

 

[Omar1984]

@Omar1984

I think this will be last reply to you on this thread.
You have not and can not cite any source to prove any of these claims. You can't provide any proof that all Gujjars where with Jinnah let aone proof that Rajasthani Gujjars are not Gujjars. You dont even know what my ethnic make up is but you feel comfortable in making snide racist comments. A Dravidian muslim who is more pious than you is much better than you no matter how "good looking" you are.

You have a racist mindset which is completely UnIslamic and have taken the thread completley offtopic. No wonder Indian Gujjars be they from Jammu Kashmri or Rajasthan e.t.c would never be a part of Pakistan were people like you are present. You can't even speak Gojri yet you claim to be Gujjar. You probably have no idea of Gujjar culture as Pakistan has done nothing to promote its language let along the culture. May God give help you and bless you in this month of Ramadan.

HAHAHAAHHAHAHA here's a south indian dravadian telling me about my culture.


Are you going to write in Gojri now? Ask any Punjabi Pakistani and ask them what a Gujar speaks in Punjab province of Pakistan..Punjabi, Pahari, Hindko. Hardly anyone in Pakistan speaks gojri.

And yea, we are totally different from a rajasthani or gujrati, or any south indian like you

 

[RobbieS]

Gujratis Rajasthanis and the rest of you dravadians are totally different from Gujjars in Pakistan and Kashmir.


Majority of Gujjars in Pakistan speak Pahari, Hindko, Punjabi, and Pashto not anything what a rajasthani, gujrati, or any south indian speaks. We are distinct from hindustani gujratis and rest of south indians. And a Muslim Gujjar is very different from a hindu.

Gujrat and Rajasthan are not in Dravidian India. But then again geography and history were never your strong areas.

And like other communities Gujjars can be found in more than one religion.

 

[LaBong]

@Omar1984

I think this will be last reply to you on this thread.
You have not and can not cite any source to prove any of these claims. You can't provide any proof that all Gujjars where with Jinnah let aone proof that Rajasthani Gujjars are not Gujjars. You dont even know what my ethnic make up is but you feel comfortable in making snide racist comments. A Dravidian muslim who is more pious than you is much better than you no matter how "good looking" you are.

You have a racist mindset which is completely UnIslamic and have taken the thread completley offtopic. No wonder Indian Gujjars be they from Jammu Kashmri or Rajasthan e.t.c would never be a part of Pakistan were people like you are present. You can't even speak Gojri yet you claim to be Gujjar. You probably have no idea of Gujjar culture as Pakistan has done nothing to promote its language let along the culture. May God give help you and bless you in this month of Ramadan.

EjazR, while I agree with most things you said, I differ at the Bold part. What makes the Aryan notion of beauty (comparatively pale complexion) an universal concept of beauty. Historically the ones with more colored complexion(Krishna, Krishna, Shyam etc.) are considered beautiful in Indian literature. Only after British occupation, Indian society picked up this screwed colonial hangover of fair and lovely.

But I guess you agree with me on this, as you put the bold part in quotations.

 

[roach]

HAHAHAAHHAHAHA here's a south indian dravadian telling me about my culture.


Are you going to write in Gojri now? Ask any Punjabi Pakistani and ask them what a Gujar speaks in Punjab province of Pakistan..Punjabi, Pahari, Hindko. Hardly anyone in Pakistan speaks gojri.

And yea, we are totally different from a rajasthani or gujrati, or any south indian like you

Wow dude, you started off this thread as level-headed, but have revealed yourself as ignorant, stubborn and a bigoted racist.

"And yea, we are totally different from a rajasthani or gujrati, or any south indian like you"???????????

 

[GUNNER]

Student Protestor Shot Dead In Indian Kashmir

SRINAGAR, India, Sept 6, 2010 - A teenage student was killed Monday when Indian security forces opened fire on stone-throwing protesters during fresh demonstrations against Indian-rule in Kashmir, police said.

A total 66 protesters and bystanders have been killed over the past three months, mostly by security forces who have used live ammunition on rallies after being pelted with stones.

The latest death occurred in Palhalan, about 30 kilometres (18 miles) north of the state summer capital Srinagar, police said.

He said one protester died on the spot while five others were wounded.

The fresh death brought more people out on the streets of Palhalan, chanting pro-independence slogans, witnesses said.

For nearly three months, crowds of young Kashmiris have defied curfews and pelted stones at the hundreds of thousands of security forces that India uses to keep a grip on the volatile region.

Last Monday, an 11-year-old boy was shot dead by police in the southern town of Anantnag during a violent demonstration against New Delhi's rule in the Muslim-majority region.

Government forces have struggled to contain the outpouring of anger triggered by the killing of a schoolboy by police in early June. Protests began in the main town of Srinagar and have spread through the Kashmir valley.

 

[RollingStones]

First of all Jammu and Kashmir is not india. Its a disputed territory recognized by the UN and the entire international community as a disputed territory. Secondly, Muslim Gujjars all over the world are the same people. We have the same blood, same religion, same traditions, same history, same names. We are exactly the same, no matter if we are in India Occupied Jammu and Kashmir or in Azad Kashmir or in Punjab province of Pakistan. We are the same. You are a south indian and got absolutely nothing to do with Muslim Gujjars.

Sorry...America does NOT recognize J&K as a disputed territory. America recognizes the LoC as the de facto border. UN resolutions are defunct. International Courts have held that resolutions have to be acted upon and implemented within reasonable time frames for them to be meaningful. Therefore, legally these resolutions are invalid. These are not treaties. Resolutions have no legal meaning. Just making sure that you are legally up to snuff.

Also, I briefly looked at the bilateral agreements between India and Pakistan and there seems to be something called the Shimla Agreement between the two countries which overrides the UN resolutions. The legal language in it is a bit ambiguous but there are sections in it which clearly bind Pakistan to recognizing the LoC as the de facto border and NOT violate its sanctity. In fact, the Kargil violation could have been taken by India to an international court and India would have won a hefty sanction against pakistan because the Shimla agreement is a legally binding Treaty, which has tremendous legal standing unlike the UN resolutions. Pakistan and Pakistanis have to be careful here. if India takes Pakistan to International court over Kashmir, it will surely WIN. Treaties will be upheld in almost all courts of the world.In fact, I can sue Pakistan in a NY City court for Kashmir violations and cite the Shimla agreement the US Court will have no option but to pass an order against Pakistan. I just want to point out how international obligations and treaties work.
Remember I am not talking about the WILL of the people here...just what is legal and what carries weight.

 

[civfanatic]

So Omar

you dont speak Gojri then.

There are Gujjar muslims stretching from Gujrat - Rajasthan - Punjab Haryana to J&K.
The biggest group of Gujjar muslims in India are found in Rajasthan.

And I am not wrong when I say that pro-sepratists treat Gujjars with contempt. The links that I posted are from local J&K sources. One of them is a Gujjar muslim author from J&K Dr Javaid Rahi.

Ejaz Omar is correct in saying that there is not much diffrence in gojri, Dogri, pahari and punjabi .Although Idon't speak these languages I know quite a lot of people who speak gojri /pahari and dogri

 

[HAIDER]

SRINAGAR: Indian forces fired on protesters hurling stones at them in Indian-administered Kashmir on Monday, killing three people and wounding at least 17 other demonstrators, police said.

For the last three months, the mostly Muslim Kashmir region has been roiled by demonstrations and clashes between protesters opposed to Indian rule and government forces. The deaths bring to 68 the number of people killed in the civil unrest.

Three people, including a 17-year-old boy, were killed when Indian forces fired live ammunition to disperse protesters in Palhalan, a village north of Srinagar, said a police officer. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to release information to the media.

Local residents said there was no clash with the troops, but soldiers fired when the protesters refused to disperse. The state government has ordered a probe into the shooting incident.

“A clash had occurred near a highway in the morning and much after that we were peacefully protesting in the village,” said resident Merajuddin.

Later, as news of the shooting spread, thousands of people from Palhalan and neighboring villages chanting “Go India, go back” and “We want freedom” marched to a nearby highway and blocked it.

Police and paramilitary soldiers fired warning shots and tear gas to quell those protests, said the officer. There were no reports of injuries.

Police launched a probe into Monday's shooting. “Senior police officers have taken a serious view of the firing. Ammunition of the policemen is being checked to fix the responsibility,” an official statement said.

Anti-India sentiment runs deep in Kashmir, which is divided between India and Pakistan and claimed by both. Protesters reject Indian sovereignty over Kashmir and want independence or a merger with Pakistan.

The recent civil unrest is reminiscent of the late 1980s, when protests against New Delhi's rule in Kashmir sparked an armed conflict that has so far killed more than 68,000 people, mostly civilians.

Meanwhile, an Indian army spokesman said Monday that three suspected militants were killed in an exchange of gunfire in a remote forest in northern Handwara district of Kashmir.

No casualties were reported among the Indian soldiers, Lt. Col. J.S. Brar said in Srinagar.

There was no independent confirmation of the army’s claim. – AP
DAWN.COM | World | Three killed as troops fire on protesters in Kashmir