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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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As you say thousands, a figure of 90,000 comes to mind.. Cant place form where though...Was that the number of Pakistani Army folks who surrendered and were captured from Bangladesh in 1971??

Lol ..71 ?
Bengladesh?india?support from USSR?
Still no air dominance
Wat abt 48?Nehru runing to UN for a cease fire?
1965 Begging at tashkent?
Lol face to face looks like u forget to say prayers?under proxies.
Sing is king
:rofl:
 
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lol 10 aircrafts on ground was it that great. forgot the attack on sargodha after that.

:rofl:
No we remember Pathankot
And 5 bogeys in under 1 minute:rofl:
Awesome kills dont u appreciate?
Sargodha?lol
Ohhhh right ur feeding on indian propoganda?
100 plus IAF kills againts PAF>>lol hahahahahhaha
 
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Just Rs. 13 million and 750 per month for a kid?..its ridiculous. Hope it gets increased. But something is better than nothing.
 
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samjhota express case was within india and needs to executed within Indian premises. no one attacked from India within Pakistan. so both are diffrent cases. but in case of 26/11 people from your side crossed over to India and waged a war
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Pakistanicitizens were killed terrorists respinciable were from ur military?
Indeed its a different case...in S.E indian states officiers were involved and in bombay individuals.


Do google operation searchlight and ask any Bangladeshi. it was your mistake altogether. again is it banned organization?

Yeah right..google books by indian authors and others how india created mukti bhani terrorist b...

any sources. it is special forces not army.



are you jealous that you dont have one of those shops. if you need something let us know we will ship it for you.

No im happy for u now.U can buy stuff in ur own vincinity.

:rofl:

your welcome. keep trying and keep dreaming. ahem ahem.....
1947: insha alaah kashmir banega pakistan
2010: insha alaah kashmir banega pakistan

48? UN baapu humien bacha ley to 2010 its ours:-)rofl: my chacha is fighting freedom fighters in indian occupied kashmir)


jai Hind
Jai Bharat
Death to ....................

Nope thts not wat kashmiris are sayin?
This is wat theyr sayin
Check it out chor carefully




 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Lol ..71 ?
Bengladesh?india?support from USSR?

Support from US. Oh **** they kicked your back and ran away seeing USSR.

Still no air dominance
Battles dont win a war? at the end of the day what matters is who won the battle.
Wat abt 48?Nehru runing to UN for a cease fire?

And still we hold your kashmir and in 63 years you are not able to take 1 inch of your land.

1965 Begging at tashkent?
as per you i think you might be beliving that you had yada and yada amount of Indian land and Indians had none.

And you ended up giving everything back.... :lol: at the end of the day so who was looser.
Lol face to face looks like u forget to say prayers?under proxies.
Sing is king
:rofl:

I dont pray. I do my job. Thats my prayer and thats what my religon tells me to just do my job which is the biggest prayer.
 
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Pakistanicitizens were killed terrorists respinciable were from ur military?
Indeed its a different case...in S.E indian states officiers were involved and in bombay individuals.

Investigations are going on and it was indians only who found out the conspiracy if you remember.


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Yeah right..google books by indian authors and others how india created mukti bhani terrorist b...

But still is it banned. it was and it is a legitimate organization. all your created organization are banned.


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any sources. it is special forces not army.

In October 2009, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) announced that it was in the final stages of planning the offensive and had received approval from the Union-led government. The Commando Battalion for Resolute Action (COBRA) would take the lead in the operations against Maoist insurgents.[3]


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No im happy for u now.U can buy stuff in ur own vincinity.

:rofl:

and i am sad that you cant

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48? UN baapu humien bacha ley to 2010 its ours:-)rofl: my chacha is fighting freedom fighters in indian occupied kashmir)

so sorry for your loss in advance. any day your chacha would be returning home in body bag.



so you tube is your source
:rofl:
 
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Support from US. Oh **** they kicked your back and ran away seeing USSR.

Watch ur mouth son.This is not ur home nor ur talking to ur father.
Keep it civilised or face the hammer of web master with a shebang.


Battles dont win a war? at the end of the day what matters is who won the battle.

Who said we won?
Still we held u in ur shoes....From a civil proxy to support from USSR to being massively out numbered,out gunned and under embargo.

And still we hold your kashmir and in 63 years you are not able to take 1 inch of your land.

Thanks for accepting its ours.
India was sub contitnent was occupied for 200 years.
Dont worry.

as per you i think you might be beliving that you had yada and yada amount of Indian land and Indians had none.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
I reffer u to our brother Wind jammers posts reguarding 1965....also dont u indian people and ur govrnment celebrate 65?47 or 62?
iI hope u know why.
Quarter of ur airforce was destroyed as for starters etc etc.

And you ended up giving everything back.... :lol: at the end of the day so who was looser.

:rofl: india attacked at night without even properly announcing war according to rules.....Not us.
About losing..why dont u celebrate 65?:woot:


I dont pray. I do my job. Thats my prayer and thats what my religon tells me to just do my job which is the biggest prayer.

Good for u.
 
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lol 10 aircrafts on ground was it that great. forgot the attack on sargodha after that.

Let me remind you something too.


Wednesday, November 19, 2008
“Run … it’s a 104”

Lockheed+F-104+Starfighter+PAF+001+photo+by+FSH..jpg


The loss of four Vampires on the opening day of the ’65 War was a major blow to the morale of the IAF and, it was felt in all quarters that something had to be done urgently. A grudge fight was, therefore, planned and the nimble Gnat was chosen as the most suitable fighter. Its small size, good turning ability and fast acceleration were seen to be lethal attributes vis-à-vis PAF’s main fighter, the Sabre. A detachment of eight Gnats from Ambala-based No 23 Squadron was flown to Pathankot and Sqn Ldr William Greene was deputed to lead it. Greene had done his Fighter Leader’s Course from UK and was busy imparting his air combat skills to the Squadron pilots when the war broke out. The more senior Flight Commander, Sqn Ldr Brij Pal Singh Sikand held no grudge in ceding command of the detachment to Greene, in view of the latter’s experience.

Soon after landing at Pathankot on the evening of 2nd September, Greene was told plainly in an Operations brief that the patrolling Sabres had to be tackled at any cost. The plan consisted of four Mystères luring the Sabres, while eight low flying Gnats popped up and pounced from two different directions. While the plan was bold, the large number of aircraft demanded a high order of formation integrity and radio discipline. Also, the operation had to be conducted swiftly since the Gnat’s limited fuel did not permit a prolonged turning fight.

As the IAF had expected, the morning of 3rd September saw PAF Combat Air Patrols over Akhnur area. Pak Army’s 7 Division had put in a request for air cover while its reinforcing elements forded River Tawi during the offensive against Akhnur. At first light, two Sabres and a Starfighter started a vigil which was continued an hour later by another similar trio. The Sabre pair included Flt Lt Yusuf Ali Khan and Flg Off Abdul Khaliq of No 11 Squadron. The singleton was flown by No 9 Squadron’s Flg Off Abbas Mirza, whose schoolboy looks belied his proficiency at handling the aerodynamic wonder that was the F-104 Starfighter.

After patrolling for a while, the Sabres were warned about four bogeys approaching Akhnur at high altitude. Outnumbered two to one, Yusuf decided to go for them anyway and asked for intercept instructions. Before he could pick contact with the reported bogeys up in the sky, his eyes caught a glimpse of four Gnats zooming from below. Yusuf immediately ordered jettisoning of drop tanks but one of his wingmen’s tanks did not go. While groping with the switches to sort the problem, Abdul Khaliq lost sight of his Leader and, in effect ended up being a liability. Yusuf, therefore, instructed him to head for home and impulsively decided to handle the complex situation all by himself.

The four Mystères, having apparently lured the patrolling Sabres, turned north and exited the battle area, leaving the Gnats to strike from behind. Led by Greene, the front Gnat section consisted of Flg Off M R Murdeshwar as No 2, Sqn Ldr Sikand as No 3 and Flg Off V S Pathania as No 4. Following instructions of Sqn Ldr Dandapani, the seasoned controller at Amritsar Radar, the Gnat formation continued to look out for the Sabres but to no avail. Yusuf, in the meantime, dove down unnoticed from almost 30,000 ft and without much ado, was able to place his missile sighting reticle on one of the Gnats[1]. A loud growl indicating Sidewinder lock-on was just what Yusuf could have asked for, in this one-versus-many scenario. Ready to press the missile firing button, he was rattled by a series of thuds on his aircraft. Confounded at what could have gone wrong at the vital moment, he looked back only to see a pair of Gnats behind him! The Gnats that were in front, meanwhile, broke to the left, obviously having been warned by the rear pair just in time.

Flt Lt Trevor Keelor and Flt Lt S Krishnaswamy, who were trailing the front Gnat section, had been able to sandwich Yusuf’s Sabre while he was busy with his quarry. Keelor opened up with the Gnat’s 30mm cannon causing extensive damage to the Sabre. A large portion of the elevator had been blown off, but Yusuf continued dogfighting somewhat shakily. Hearing his plight on the radio, Abdul Khaliq made an attempt to rejoin the fight, as he had not gone much far. Luckily, the Sabres were able to pair up again and they continued to help each other fight their way out of the cloud of six Gnats[2].

Flt Lt Farooq Haider, who had been controlling the fight from Sakesar Radar, apprehended the gravity of the situation and directed Mirza’s nearby Starfighter into the midst of ongoing combat. The fearsome reputation of the Starfighter was not unfounded, it appeared, as the Gnats went helter skelter on sighting it. Abdul Khaliq, who at this time was being chased by Pathania, thus managed to get a lucky reprieve.

“Pajh oye … 104 eeee,” Sikand shouted out to Pathania in inimitable Punjabi (the English translation, “Run … it’s a 104” just cannot grasp the hint of mad rush in the expression)[3]. The ‘104’ did not stay in the fight for long as the idea was to charge in at supersonic speed and try a pot shot or, simply overwhelm the adversaries with sheer awe[4]. Mirza did his act a couple of times before leaving the scene; it had a salutary effect, as the dogfight broke off and the Gnats started egressing. Sikand, who had initiated the panic call, broke off too, but in an opposite direction, thus losing contact with his wingman as well as the rest of the formation.

At Sakesar Radar, Farooq was keeping abreast of the situation. Anticipating the need for reinforcement, he had scrambled another Starfighter to the scene. Flown by Flt Lt Hakimullah, it arrived a bit late for the Gnats which had turned away. One Gnat, however, was seen to be behaving strangely; having gone back, it turned about and re-entered Pakistani airspace. Hakimullah, who was supersonic at this time, was directed towards the errant intruder. Though Hakimullah could not sight the tiny Gnat at the speed he was flying, he learnt from Sakesar that his adversary had slowed down to what appeared like landing speed. Hakimullah set up orbit over the area, wondering if a forced landing was in progress. Shortly thereafter, to his utter surprise, he picked contact with a Gnat taxiing down the disused Pasrur airstrip near Sialkot.

(IAF Gnat in PAF museum Karachi)

Ov_Gnat02.jpg


When Greene and his formation members landed, they were in celebratory mood for what was believed to be Keelor’s kill. They were expecting Sikand, the gregarious fellow that he was, to join in any time for a hearty beer session. Little did they know that their Flight Commander was in Pakistani custody following a bizarre episode.

During interrogation Sikand claimed that almost all his systems failed soon after he was separated from his formation. Once he had lost visual contact with everyone, he tried to communicate on the radio, but found it dead. His guns too had jammed, fuel flow had become erratic and the fuel quantity was low; incredibly, his compass also went berserk and he lost his bearings. If there was any hope of making it back, the Starfighters snuffed it. Under the circumstances, the airstrip that he saw was a godsend, no matter that he stepped off his Gnat as a vanquished airman.

Yusuf somehow managed to keep his badly damaged aircraft in control and, extricated out of the battle area alongwith his wingman. With marginal fuel as well as a dead radio, he made it to Sargodha; however, after landing he discovered that there was no hydraulic pressure for braking, and the Sabre ended up in the over-run arrester barrier without further damage. For having fought single-handedly against six Gnats and, also for recovering a badly damaged aircraft, Yusuf was awarded a Sitara-i-Jur’at[5]. Keelor, who claimed having seen Yusuf’s aircraft go down, was promptly awarded a Vir Chakra for what was believed to be IAF’s first kill. The picture of the damaged Sabre released by the PAF told a different story, though.

Sikand was promptly apprehended by Pak Army troops and had to spend the next five months as a POW. After his repatriation, the IAF somehow took a light view of the incident and, Sikand resumed his career; he eventually rose to the rank of an Air Marshal[6]. His aircraft was flown to Sargodha by Sqn Ldr Sa’ad Hatmi, who carried out several evaluation flights after the war. Hatmi, who had flown the Gnat extensively while on an exchange assignment with the RAF, did not find the IAF version any different. He also maintained that the Gnat was no ‘Sabre Slayer’[7] when it came to dogfighting. After its brief service with the new air arm, Gnat IE1083 was consigned to the PAF Museum, where it continues to bemuse visitors with one of the bizarre episodes of the 1965 War.
_________________________

[1] Murdeshwar was flying this Gnat.
[2] Two of the eight Gnats planned for the mission had aborted due to technical reasons.
[3] Farooq heard Sikand’s call on the radio-monitoring equipment while the interception was in progress.
[4] Krishnaswamy, for instance, recalled being so awe-struck at the sight of the Starfighter that he passed up a shot of opportunity as the aircraft went by.
[5] Yusuf lived upto the citation for gallantry when he shot down a Gnat flown by Flt Lt A N Kale near Ferozepur on 13th Sep.
[6] In a strange turn of fortunes, Sikand was able to put the scandalous incident behind him, although it is said that his influential father-in-law, a Central Government minister, was instrumental in his reinstatement. Sikand was given command of No 22 Squadron, which he led during the 1971 Indo-Pak War. His honour was redeemed to an extent when two Gnats of his Squadron downed two PAF Sabres on the Eastern Front.
[7] It must be conceded that the Gnat was a formidable fighter, as the IAF nickname suggests. In the few decisive Gnat vs Sabre engagements of the ’65 War, Gnats downed three Sabres and damaged one, while Sabres downed two Gnats and damaged one.


This article is an excerpted chapter from Air Cdre Kaiser Tufail's book, Great Air Battles of Pakistan Air Force, published by Ferozsons (Pvt) Ltd, 2005. It was also published in the daily newspaper, The News International on 6 Sep 2003.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/53891-f-104-surrender-iaf-gnat-65-a.html
 
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Watch ur mouth son.This is not ur home nor ur talking to ur father.
Keep it civilised or face the hammer of web master with a shebang.

is it not true that they ran away in between when you requested to help you. :P

Who said we won?
Still we held u in ur shoes....From a civil proxy to support from USSR to being massively out numbered,out gunned and under embargo.

dream of kashmir ended with defending lahore. lol was it great :cheesy:
Thanks for accepting its ours.
India was sub contitnent was occupied for 200 years.
Dont worry.

yes as per you it is yours but the reality check is it is Indian State of which you have occupied one third of it and have been wet dreaming for past 63 years for rest of it.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:
I reffer u to our brother Wind jammers posts reguarding 1965....also dont u indian people and ur govrnment celebrate 65?47 or 62?
iI hope u know why.
Quarter of ur airforce was destroyed as for starters etc etc.

47: you tried in whole of kashmir. as soon as our forces entered your dream was limited over to one third. so we celebrate
65: you thought of having kashmir again and ended defending lahore. so we celebrate
62: though we dont celebrate but it was a eye opener for us. thanks to china.

:rofl: india attacked at night without even properly announcing war according to rules.....Not us.
About losing..why dont u celebrate 65?:woot:


It was you who started the war with operation gibraltor not us. we celebrate 65 but not as victory because it was a stalemate.

Good for u.

ok
 
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Investigations are going on and it was indians only who found out the conspiracy if you remember.


Since how many years?and till how many years more till hey conclude something?

But still is it banned. it was and it is a legitimate organization. all your created organization are banned.

Everything u dont like is banned..from being the politician who wrote a book on Jinnah to books tht prove u being involved in 71 civil war.
Its not a secret u should admit it.Even bengali members here are admitting it.


In October 2009, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) announced that it was in the final stages of planning the offensive and had received approval from the Union-led government. The Commando Battalion for Resolute Action (COBRA) would take the lead in the operations against Maoist insurgents.[3]

SF arent they a part of ur forces?


and i am sad that you cant


:rofl: No thanks i love my girl friend.
I wish u joy :lol: and happines..just dont steal stuff from the shop.



so sorry for your loss in advance. any day your chacha would be returning home in body bag.

Thts cheap buddy..If i was a ..... like u id had wished u the same but im not a low life like u.

But true for people like u and 720 000 indian occupying forces again i thank u for saying its OUR(PAKISTANS) land.


so you tube is your source
:rofl:

Will u like UN human rights,amnestry international and others?
Also this is india occupied Kashmir isnt it?
YES it is now get over it.
 
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Since how many years?and till how many years more till hey conclude something?

Investigations take time. you cant end a trial just in one attempt.

Everything u dont like is banned..from being the politician who wrote a book on Jinnah to books tht prove u being involved in 71 civil war.
Its not a secret u should admit it.Even bengali members here are admitting it.

It is not banned by India. they are banned in UN if you remember.



SF arent they a part of ur forces?

Forces dont mean army. even police is part of security force.



:rofl: No thanks i love my girl friend.
I wish u joy :lol: and happines..just dont steal stuff from the shop.

are you sure she is girl friend or boy friend. with your interest in such shops you it sounds more like boy friend.




Thts cheap buddy..If i was a ..... like u id had wished u the same but im not a low life like u.

But true for people like u and 720 000 indian occupying forces again i thank u for saying its OUR(PAKISTANS) land.

any one who intends to hurt India or anything should return back in body bags. doesnt matter who or what he is. Its simple and clear policy.


Will u like UN human rights,amnestry international and others?
Also this is india occupied Kashmir isnt it?
YES it is now get over it.

But it continues to be a part of India. :lol::lol:
 
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is it not true that they ran away in between when you requested to help you. :P

First learn to respect and deserve respect.
We dont give a syt abt USA.
Ask people of Pakistan a recent report say only 4% people like usa.

dream of kashmir ended with defending lahore. lol was it great

U attacked on Lahore at night without announcing war..Wat do people call it?
Yeah and ended with conquering rajhistan fort:rofl:


yes as per you it is yours but the reality check is it is Indian State of which you have occupied one third of it and have been wet dreaming for past 63 years for rest of it.

Lol now dont u repent from ur statement.
I again thank you and ur friends who said for saying its an indian occupied territory in previous posts,:yahoo:


47: you tried in whole of kashmir. as soon as our forces entered your dream was limited over to one third. so we celebrate

:rofl:: Our guys had captured ladakh when nehru ran to UN and promised a refrendum........Check the neutral history and dont feed on B.S indian media.
:rofl: I have yet to see india celebrating 48:azn:

65: you thought of having kashmir again and ended defending lahore. so we celebrate

Ended with captured rajhistan fort and running to Tashkent for a cease fire?
Highlighted part is :rofl::
Ask ur government to do tht too:rofl:
62: though we dont celebrate but it was a eye opener for us. thanks to china.

Lol u should celebrate tht with 48 and 65.

It was you who started the war with operation gibraltor not us. we celebrate 65 but not as victory because it was a stalemate.


Thts Bullshit.Living in fools
A myth an illusion....
For dellusional people they say:
If dreams were horses everybody would have been ridding them and not walkin.
 
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