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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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if they dont want to live there they can sell the land and can go to pakistan.....but the land belongs to india:p:lol:

No one sells own land to invaders It was your beghairat dogra who had sold the Kashmiris.

The land belongs to Kashmiris and thats why they do not bucth an inch despite Indian brutalities.
 
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i agree that the land belongs to kashmiris............but kashmiris are indian>>>>>>:rofl::P
 
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Jana,
I could give the names of five more places where they hoisted black flags today.

Villagers of Lalgarh had endured the bad experience of moist attack and subsecuent police action,so such reactions are only natural . Their grievances are mostly about police brutalites ,not any bigger ideological battle like the moists fight aganist the state.As the moists leave the area, soon the place'll come back to normal like seen in similar other cases.

And its not for the first time....independent india had seen many such black flags, even more bloodier insurgencies in the past.But its borders are still very much intact...so dont get any ideas,pls.

On our sixty third independence day i assure u that India'll only grow and prosper as one nation in the next 63yrs. Hence take it easy would be my advice for u.
 
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why do you guys support china, when Tibet, xinang, and others parts are invaded by china.


:usflag::coffee:
 
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Jana,
I could give the names of five more places where they hoisted black flags today.

Villagers of Lalgarh had endured the bad experience of moist attack and subsecuent police action,so such reactions are only natural


And its not for the first time....independent india had seen many such black flags, even more bloodier insurgencies in the past.But its borders are still very much intact...so dont get any ideas,pls.

On our sixty third independence day i assure u that India'll only grow and prosper as one nation in the next 63yrs. Hence take it easy would be my advice for u.

lolzz well i am taking it easy no worries man. Its Indians who get uneasy and throng enmass on forums to deny such protests against Indian occupation.
 
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lolzz well i am taking it easy no worries man. Its Indians who get uneasy and throng enmass on forums to deny such protests against Indian occupation.

You should thank us for giving u the real picture preventing the pile up of unnecessary hopes.
 
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now what right does you guys have to talk about it, you dont own kashmir, you have differential pliocies in the freedom struggle of people from various parts, like balochistan, tibet. The tone you guys are using against any positive signs of patriotism in kashmir valley is disgusting, i and many of my fellow indians are mature enough to understand the issues and feeling of hatred of many in kashmir valley against india. I hope you guys too would be mature enough to appreciate the patriortic feelings existing amongs the FEW kashmiris.
 
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After independence of India and pakistan during 1947AD, it was pakistan army which first infiltered inside kashmir and looted, slayed even raped the innocent people of kashmir. This is history. You can confirm this with any native kashmiri, they will let you know the truth. By the request of both Maharaja HariSingh and Sheik Adbulla to rescue the people of kashmir, Indian army entered inside kashmir and started chasing away the Pakistani army. With the full support of local kashmiris Indian army chased out the Pakis, and regained around 65% of the land.
Those days US was with Pakistan and with the help of US, Pak voiced this to UN, and their claim was/is “Kashmir is muslim dominated area, so it belongs to Pakistan”. With the mounding pressure from UN, India halted the operation. It was kashmiri people who wanted Inadian army their, to save them from Pak army. Over a period of time Kashmiri people wanted and ready to merge with India. There were some personal ego clash between the then Indian prime-minister Nehru and Sheik Abdulla which cast the dear, and the process was delayed.

Pakistan used this opportunity nicely, and played tactics politics. One side with the help of US and UN, it put pressure on India to leave kashmir. Other side it propagandize the Kashmiris with the religious strings. With time the new generation kashmiris forget what pakistan did to them early, and they started approaching this problem as Hindu army vs Muslim army problem. The rest is once again history.


:usflag::coffee::pop:
 
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I salute to this Kashmiri Soldier n his Family , who laid down his life for his nation.....
 
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free and fair elections in Kashmir. We are ready for all options but i guess Pakistan is not ready for a separate state of kashmir. which most of the ppl of kashmir really want.

Plebiscite abandoned

in the 1950s, the Indian Government distanced itself from its commitment to hold a plebiscite.

This was

firstly because Pakistani forces had not been withdrawn and secondly because elections affirming the state's status as part of India had been held.

Independence option

But there was a split between those demanding a plebiscite in order to determine allegiance to either India or Pakistan and those who stated that a third option should be added: Independence.

Ladakh
Ladakhis do not want to join Pakistan

Pakistan has consistently called for the issue to be resolved by means of a plebiscite and has blamed India for reneging on its pledge.

But although it supports the Kashmiris "right of self-determination," Pakistan has never accepted the third option as a possible outcome.

It is also now evident that holding a plebiscite that assumes Kashmir becomes a united state might not produce an equitable result, given its cultural, ethnic and linguistic diversity.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kashmir's forgotten plebiscite

Ans. #1 Pakistan did withdraw from srinagar to the present position.


Ans # 2 plebiscite will determine the rule of majority and will determine the wishes of the people.

Ans # 3 Ladakhians will have to abide by the choices made by Majority and will have right under minority laws.

Ans # 4. India being the member of U.N cannot unilaterally decide to abandon the resolution passed by U.N. about holding plebiscite, it is considered a breach of U.N. charter and its mandates.


Ans# 5 All ethnic and cultural groups will have to live as they do in Pakistan and India and will have the safeguard built in the Kashmir's provincial rules and regulations.

There you go, now I have answere3d all your question, you can atleast be a righteous person to accept the truth and become part of the solution and not the problem.
 
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By LYDIA POLGREEN
SHOPIAN, Kashmir — On a sunny late spring afternoon, Asiya and Nilofa Jan left home to tend to their family’s apple orchard. Along the way they passed a gantlet of police camps wreathed in razor wire as they crossed the bridge over the ankle-deep Rambi River.

Little more than 12 hours later their battered bodies were found in the stream. Asiya, a 17-year-old high school student, had been badly beaten. Blood streamed from her nose and a sharp gash in her forehead. She and her 22-year-old sister-in-law, Nilofa, had been gang raped before their deaths.

The crime, and allegations of a bungled attempt by the local police to cover it up, set off months of sporadic street protests here in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir. It is now the focal point for seemingly bottomless Kashmiri rage at the continuing presence of roughly 500,000 Indian security forces. The forces remain, though the violence by separatist militants whom they came here to fight in the past few years has ebbed to its lowest point in two decades.

“India says Kashmir is a free part of a free country,” said Majid Khan, a 20-year-old unemployed man who has joined the stone-throwing mobs. “If that is so, why are we being brutalized? Why are women gang raped?”

India and Pakistan have fought two wars over Kashmir, and the Himalayan border region remains at the heart of the 62-year rivalry between the nuclear-armed neighbors.

Settling the Kashmir dispute is the key to unlocking the region’s tensions, something the United States hopes will eliminate Pakistan’s shadowy support for militant groups and allow its army to shift attention toward fighting Taliban militants.

Despite Kashmiri rage and the damage to India’s image, the Indian government has bridled at any outside pressure to negotiate a solution, let alone reduce its force level here. Caught in the middle are Kashmir’s 10 million people. The case of Asiya and Nilofa is only the latest abuse to strike a chord with Kashmiris, who say it is emblematic of the problems of what amounts to a full-scale occupation.

Kashmir has its own police force, but it works in close tandem with the Indian forces here and is seen by many as virtually indistinguishable from them. Four Kashmiri officers are suspected of trying to cover up the crime.

Kashmiri activists and human rights groups say that rapes by men in uniform, extrajudicial killings and a lack of redress are endemic, not least because security forces are largely shielded from prosecution by laws put in place when Indian troops were battling a once-potent insurgency here. Both local and national security forces here operate with impunity, they say.

Last summer a dispute over land for Hindu pilgrims between Kashmiris, who are mostly Muslims, and the region’s Hindu administrators, set off weeks of massive demonstrations as well.

The question for India, Kashmiris say, is whether the huge security presence is doing more harm than good.

“Maybe at some point in time when the militants were in the thousands it made sense to have so many soldiers here,” said Mehbooba Mufti, leader of a major opposition party here. “But at this point they are not helping in any way. Their mere presence has become a source of friction.”

Indian government officials disagree and point to statistics showing a decline in infiltration from Pakistan as proof that their tough methods have worked.

According to the government, 557 civilians died in 2005 in what the government calls “terrorist” violence in Jammu and Kashmir, which is India’s full name for the area. By 2008 that number had plummeted to 91. The number of militants killed has fallen by nearly two-thirds, while the deaths of security personnel in the region have been more than halved. Where tens of thousands of armed men once roamed, government officials now estimate there are as few as 500.

Analysts say that other events have also played a role in reducing militancy and infiltration. Secret talks between India and Pakistan over Kashmir made progress but broke down in 2007, when Pakistan’s president at the time, Pervez Musharraf, began losing his grip on power.

In addition, after two decades of militant separatism, in December 2008 voters ignored separatist calls for a boycott and cast ballots in huge numbers in state assembly elections. It was a hopeful sign that Kashmiris believed they could influence their destiny by peaceful means.

The election brought Omar Abdullah, the scion of Kashmir’s most famous political family, to power as chief minister of the state. He promised to roll back the laws that shielded Indian security forces in Kashmir from oversight, and to put Kashmir’s police force, rather than federal police and troops, at the forefront of securing the region. But that has not happened, and the details of the Shopian killings have fed the darkest and most personal fears of Kashmiris as the investigation into the deaths has stalled.

“Who does not see their wife in Nilofa, their daughter in Asiya?” said Abdul Rashid Dalal, who lives in Shopian.

Nilofa and Asiya Jan had walked to the orchard around 3:30 p.m. on Friday, May 29. When Shakeel Ahmad Ahanger, Nilofa’s husband, came home at 7:30 p.m., the two had not yet returned. He went to search for them but found no trace.

By 9:30 p.m. he was frantic. He went to the police station, and along with several officers scoured their route, including the shallow bed of the Rambi River. The police called off the search at 2:30 a.m., urging Mr. Ahanger to return at daybreak. After his dawn prayers, he went back to the bridge with police officials.

“Look, there is your wife,” the local police chief said to Mr. Ahanger, pointing at a body lying prone on some rocks in a dry patch in the middle of the stream.

He rushed to her, but she was dead. Her dress had been hiked up, exposing her midriff. Her body was bruised. “I knew immediately something very bad had happened to her,” Mr. Ahanger said. His sister was found a mile downstream. Their bodies were taken for autopsies, but the cause of death seemed clear to residents who have longed lived in the shadow of the security forces.

“Two girls disappear next to an armed camp,” said Abdul Hamid Deva, a member of a committee of elders set up in response to the killings. “Their bodies then mysteriously appear in a river next to the camp. It does not take much imagination to know what is likely to have happened.”

Town residents gathered at the hospital for the autopsy results. Initially a doctor said the women drowned. But the crowd rejected the conclusion; the stream was barely ankle deep. Residents pelted the hospital with stones. A second team of doctors was called in. They confirmed that the women had been raped.

“What was done to these women even animals could not have done,” the gynecologist who examined the women told the crowd, weeping as she spoke, according to witnesses.

Two men who had been at a shop near the bridge would later tell investigators they saw a police truck parked on the bridge and heard women crying for help.

Initially, the chief minister, Mr. Abdullah, also told reporters that the women had drowned. Later security officials said that advisers had misinformed him. A few days later he acknowledged that the women had come to harm and appointed a commission to investigate. But investigators say that crucial evidence has been lost and that they are no closer to finding the culprits despite the arrest of four local police officers on suspicion of a cover-up.

Kuldeep Khoda, the director general of Kashmir’s police force, admitted that his forces had made mistakes. “There is a prima facie feeling there was destruction of evidence, whether deliberate or inadvertent,” Mr. Khoda said. “The investigation is going on and the results of that investigation will come.”

Indian government officials say that the security forces here are needed to head off more insurgent violence or a Pakistani invasion. “If there would not be a war that is fought by external forces, our soldiers would not be there,” said a senior Indian intelligence official, referring to groups in Pakistan.

But residents of Shopian say the security forces are the only threat. “The only thing I can do now is hope justice will be done,” said Mr. Ahanger, Nilofa’s husband, who is struggling to care for his 2-year-old son, Suzain. “Nobody is safe in Kashmir — even a child, an elderly man, a young girl. Nobody is safe.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/world/asia/16kashmir.html?_r=1&ref=global-home&pagewanted=print
 
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Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee ... you don't even know the issue of Balochistan and want to compare Kashmir and Balochistan!

Balochistan has always voted for Pakistan and it is an undisputed territory. Kashmir is a disputed part as accepted by the UN, Pakistan, India and most importantly by the Kashmiris!!

India will need to sit down and resolve Kasshmir with Pakistan!!!

Im not comparing Balochistan with Kashmir...you were.though both were supposed to choose India or Pakistan at the time of partition, and that being the only similarity at that time..

Ive only asked you how are you so sure that they will vote for Pakistan and not choose any other option....When did I say Kashmir is not disputed by Pakistan or that India did not refer it to the UN.Do recall that its Pakistan that accuses India of arming/supporting the insurgency in Balochistan and therefore is a parallel to Kashmir in that regard.Ofcourse, India does dispute its status with Pakistan...

Further, Ive no issues with India talking Kashmir to Pakistan.

So the question, I posed was ..."how are you so sure that they will vote for Pakistan and not choose any other option"
 
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How is it for India to decide whether the people who own that land should live there or not. India's occupation is illegitimate, and then killing innocent people of the Kashmir state is murderous.

the local population always has the first right over the area from wich they belong.

and from what i know(tell me if i am wrong) no one is allowed to own land in kashmir except kashmiris.
 
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Ans # 4. India being the member of U.N cannot unilaterally decide to abandon the resolution passed by U.N. about holding plebiscite, it is considered a breach of U.N. charter and its mandates.
Actually it can. The Kashmir resolutions are under Chaper VI of UN Charter, making these resolutions, 'advisory' and not 'compulsory' in nature.
Chapter VI establishes the appropriate methods of settling international disputes and the Security Council's powers in relation to them. It is generally agreed that resolutions under Chapter VI are advisory rather than binding. These resolutions have generally been operative only with the consent of all parties involved. Traditionally, the Chapter has not been interpreted to support collective intervention by member states in the affairs of another member state.
Source

I will also make another point here. The allegation that it was India, that refused demilitarization of Kashmir or that it reneged on UN resolution is actually a subterfuge.There is a second side to every story.

As per Document 1100, Para 75, Pakistan was to 'agree to withdraw its troops from that State' and 'use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting'. UN was then to notify the GoI 'that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn' and 'that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir'. Only after receipt of this intimation, the GoI was 'to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission'

Source

More important than Pakistan 'agreeing' to demilitarize the Kashmir region, was the fact that Pakistan had to completely remove 'the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals'. It is this presence of 'the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals' and further infiltration of Pakistani nationals into the region, that had prompted India to insist on the presence of a higher number of Indian troops in Kashmir - more than the number that UN had suggested.

The UNCIP taking note of the developments adopted a resolution on August 13, 1948, divided into three parts. The first part called for a cease-fire. The second part called for Pakistan to withdraw its nationals and tribesmen and to vacate the territory occupied by it. Then after the above stipulation had been implemented India was to withdraw the bulk of its forces from the State leaving an adequate number behind to ensure that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir maintains law and order and peace, a clear indication that the UNCIP believed that Jammu and Kashmir was a part of India. Part (3) of the Resolution to be implemented after parts (1) and (2) stated that both India and Pakistan had reaffirmed their wish that the future status of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people.

Yet the ensuing months, after the adoption of the resolution, saw Pakistan brazenly advancing deep into Baltistan and Ladakh, hundreds of kilometres to the east while the so-called Azad Kashmir forces, which were to be disbanded, were expanded and consolidated and formed what the UNCIP Military Adviser described as a "formidable force".

A subsequent resolution was adopted by the UNCIP on 5, January 1949 on the same issue. However, this resolution was to be binding only if the stipulations of the resolution of August 14, 1948 had first been met. India accepted this resolution also. It is noteworthy that while India accepted the two resolutions, Pakistan balked at implementing even the first one and has still , even after the passage of fifty years, not vacated the territories of Jammu and Kashmir seized by it. Indeed, the portion of the State now called the Northern Areas, has been declared a part of Pakistan, separate to the entity named "Azad Kashmir"

The United Nations: Jammu & Kashmir; Embassy of India - Washington, DC
Contrary to the popular belief in Pakistan, it is actually Pakistan which reneged on UN resolution. India stands on a firm legal ground.
 
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