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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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Do they vote for you, ? BIG NO, instead it's observed as a black day.
Calling your self a democracy, ? UN resolutions imply more authenticy and credit than a money making Maharaja's stint.
After Pokhran, the Indian establishment did talk about Azad Kashmir, but as soon as the Chaghi Mountain turned white, BJP changed it's tune to "bilateraly resolving all outstanding issues, including Kashmir".
Basically, like a stray animal, you people need constant slapping around the ears to keep you in the line.


Thats the whole point of this thread if you missed it...those observing black days are paid Pakistani propagandanists

Maharaja signing a document carries a legal standing and UN recognizes as such, thats why Pakistan was recognized as an aggressor that attacked a sovereign state and was told to remove its forces from Kashmir.

The UN resolution is non-Binding and long as India isn't satisfied that Pakistan has no further designs of land grab, it doesnt need to hold the plebiscite.

as for the rest you can howl along...
 
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Thats the whole point of this thread if you missed it...those observing black days are paid Pakistani propagandanists

Maharaja signing a document carries a legal standing and UN recognizes as such, thats why Pakistan was recognized as an aggressor that attacked a sovereign state and was told to remove its forces from Kashmir.

The UN resolution is non-Binding and long as India isn't satisfied that Pakistan has no further designs of land grab, it doesnt need to hold the plebiscite.

as for the rest you can howl along...
Pakistan must be much richer than i assumed, it can afford to pay and buy out all the Kashmir citizens not to mention 80,000 odd buried in mass graves.
If Maharaja's document held any water, why the world community is alarmed at the issue and repeatedly urge India/Pakistan to resolve this dispute.?
Unless it's prone to making a statement a day, the successive Indian governments have admitted at one time or other as Kashmir being a biletral issue.
And when they were feeling the heat, it was Indian establishment howling as Kashmir is bleeding India........!!!!!!!!
 
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Thats the whole point of this thread if you missed it...those observing black days are paid Pakistani propagandanists
Pakistan must be much richer than i assumed, it can afford to pay and buy out all the Kashmir citizens not to mention 80,000 odd buried in mass graves.

Those two are perfect example of exaggeration on both sides which is far far from truth.....
a) There is a definite support for separatists...However it is not in majority and is diminishing...Average kashmiri is more worried about his/her economic condition than being a pawn in India-Pakistan tussle over Kashmir....

b) 80,000 odd buried in mass graves??? You must be smoking something...


If Maharaja's document held any water, why the world community is alarmed at the issue and repeatedly urge India/Pakistan to resolve this dispute.?

World community is alarmed because masses(read people like us) in both the countries think that nukes are toys and waging a war is a joke or military training exercise....

Unless it's prone to making a statement a day, the successive Indian governments have admitted at one time or other as Kashmir being a biletral issue.
Is there any time that Indian Government never admitted that Kashmir is not a bilateral issue?

And when they were feeling the heat, it was Indian establishment howling as Kashmir is bleeding India........!!!!!!!!
What heat are you pointing to???? All i know is that there is not a single change in position of Kashmir since 1947(if any than its India who has made advances)
 
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Basically, like a stray animal, you people need constant slapping around the ears to keep you in the line.

It is people like you who flame...Anyways let me ask you something on a very humble note...Please point one achievement of Pakistan that you think is worth in respect to Kashmir since 1947??? The only thing that i see is the covert war which was at its peak in 90's...Any geographical change??? Than what kind of slapping are you talking about???
 
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How can you justify using hundreds of thousands of Indian Army and paramilitary forces to occupy and control J&K? Let them choose which nation they wish to be a part of under a free and fair plebiscite.

Same question I am asking you ..What is Pakistan army doing in so called 'Azad Kashmir '?? Please enlighten me whats the stand of Pakistan in Kashmir issue??They wanted Azad Kashmir or Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan??

If your want Kashmir to be Azad what dignity your government has left to make such a claim Agno?you government ceded some land of an Independent country to another country..this itself shows what you want to do with that place..

And if you wanted Kashmir to be a part of your country.then its clear that you started war in 1948 and Maharaja has only one thing left to do to protect his country that is joining India..so we have every right to be in that state and Kashmir is India..


Off topic question :If India settles this issue according to what Pakistan hope for..can your government get back the land ceded to China from them??Are they willing to give back the land your government had given to them??
 
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Why India reneged on its commitment to the UNSC resolution to hold a UN led plebiscite in Kashmir? This could well resolved the territorial dispute!

UN Resolution required Pakistan to withdraw completely from Kashmir. It also allowed India to maintain minimum Forces for law and order and this never happened. India has article 307 that restrict non Kashmiri to settle in J&K while same is not restricted in Azad Kashmir So, the UN resolution is totally invalid in current scenario.
 
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Do they vote for you, ? BIG NO, instead it's observed as a black day.
Please get your facts correct, if more than 60% voting is considered as "no vote" then :rofl:
For the records, its more than many of the other Indian states vote...
Link:Jammu and Kashmir state assembly elections, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only a few separatists observe Black day and AFAIK there was one who despite attempts by others not to let him contest, contested and lost.
Calling your self a democracy, ? UN resolutions imply more authenticy and credit than a money making Maharaja's stint.
After Pokhran, the Indian establishment did talk about Azad Kashmir, but as soon as the Chaghi Mountain turned white, BJP changed it's tune to "bilateraly resolving all outstanding issues, including Kashmir".
Basically, like a stray animal, you people need constant slapping around the ears to keep you in the line.

Request you to be more polite in your choice of words, and for the sake of argument, even if BJP was in power its the Indian govt. that takes such decisions which at that time was a coalition one and included Nationalist Conference i.e Farookh Abdullah(J&K mandate seat)

@ topic
Its nice that a few of the separatists have developed inclinations towards talks and peaceful negotiations. They must be more frank about Pakistans involvement and its mode of support(i.e money, freedomfighters, influence on their decisions) so that people of J&K know the truth and decide for themselves, future course of action and demands.

Also if they want to demonstrate their support base they should be actively involved in elections.

For Indians, its nothing but an eye opener especially for those who believe Indian govt. is a bit harsh on the separatists....:cheers:
 
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Can the Indian security forces bring back to life the tens of thousands tortured and massacred by them and buried in mass graves?

Let me know how that works out.

The real 'pity' is that Indian continues to occupy the territory and deny the Kashmiris the right to self determination as promised in the UNSC resolutions and accepted by India.

What about Pakistani jehadi forces.??..don't you think kashmir would have been better off with out them and then there would also not have been heavy indian security forces which you blame are killing people....?

india side of Kashmir is in sate a disaster today but the culprits are both the indian and pro pakisani jehadi forces...have to say....we say in hindi 1 haath se talli nhi bajti..

It would be great if Pakistan take care of its 180 million people rather than butting in for a few lac kashmiris living in India..
 
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Kashmiri wants to join India? Any evidence?

There is lot of ground to believe that Tibetans do not want to be with China. Would China make Tibet free if majority there want independence? I do not think any nation at this stage of time can afford to give away its land because people want otherwise, that is violation of territorial integrity. And we have know what Kashmiris want from the assembly elections.
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/world/asia/15kashmir.html?ref=asia
SRINAGAR, Kashmir — Two young Kashmiri women whose deaths ignited violent protests in this disputed province over the summer were not raped or murdered, but drowned in a mountain stream, India’s top investigative agency said Monday, in the latest and perhaps most stunning turn in a deeply contentious case.

The bodies of the two — 17-year-old Aasiya Jan and her sister-in-law Nilofar Shakeel, 22 — were found in a shallow stream on May 30. The women had told relatives they were going to the family’s orchard, but were not seen again alive.

Initially government officials said that the two women had drowned. But many Kashmiris discounted that explanation, given that the stream in which their bodies were found is seldom more than ankle deep, and a doctor involved with a second autopsy said that there was no doubt the women had been raped. The deaths fueled suspicions that Indian soldiers prey upon Kashmiri women, even though Kashmiri police officers are suspected in this case.

A 66-page report on the case by India’s Central Bureau of Investigation was presented in court here on Monday. It said that forensic evidence collected from the women’s bodies indicated that they had died accidentally and that there was no evidence that either had been raped.

The new report accuses doctors, lawyers and witnesses of falsifying information given to the police in the initial investigation, raising the troubling possibility that the rape and murder allegations were concocted as part of an elaborate hoax intended to embarrass India’s security forces, whose presence here is often likened to an occupation.

But to many Kashmiris the report points to a still more troubling accusation: a cover-up that reaches to the highest levels of Indian law enforcement. Relatives of the two women denounced the findings, and protesters burned copies of the report in front of the Jammu and Kashmir High Court, where the case was being heard. Activists and clerics called for a general strike across the Kashmir Valley on Tuesday.

Shakeel Ahmed Ahangar, the brother and widower of the two dead women, said the report was “tantamount to another rape and murder of my sister and wife.”

The Jammu and Kashmir High Court was quick to say that the report “cannot be taken as the gospel truth.”

The Delhi-based Independent Women’s Initiative for Justice, which had sent a team to the Kashmir Valley on a fact-finding mission, said in its recent report that “no one in recent or living memory has ever drowned” in the stream, and that “we would need to be more than merely credulous to believe that.”

The case is deeply divisive in the volatile Kashmir Valley, which lies at the heart of the rivalry between India and Pakistan. The two have been to war twice over the province, which was divided between them when British India was partitioned in 1947. Many Kashmiris reject the territorial claims of both countries and want independence.

The delicacy of the case was on display in the courtroom here. When officials from the Central Bureau of Investigation began to give a presentation for the judges, the women’s relatives shouted accusations of a cover-up. They shouted their suspicion that the women had been abducted while returning home from the family orchard on the outskirts of the town of Shopian and then raped and killed.

The agency filed charges against 13 people, including 6 doctors, 5 local lawyers, an activist and the brother of one of the dead women. The charges included fabricating evidence and intimidating witnesses after the recovery of the two bodies.

Speaking to reporters after his presentation of the evidence in court, Anil Bhan, a lawyer for the Central Bureau of Investigation, said that the bodies of the women were exhumed in the presence of their family members, that a medical inspection showed that Ms. Jan had not been raped, and that the evidence indicated that she was a virgin when she died. He added that experts from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, India’s elite medical school, had completed the examination.

An autopsy report prepared by local doctors said that the women had been raped before they were killed. But the Central Bureau of Investigation report says the doctors gave false post-mortem reports and sent slides for DNA examination that had been tampered with.

“It now seems that whole charade of investigation by multiple agencies, one after the other, was aimed at shielding the culprits rather than bringing them to book,” said Mehbooba Mufti, the president of the opposition People’s Democratic Party. She described as “cruel irony” the move to file charges against “the family, the witnesses, lawyers and those who have wanted justice to be done.”

Yusuf Jameel reported from Srinagar, and Lydia Polgreen from New Delhi
 
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I am not shifting poles, you are obfuscating...
Where was the obfuscation? Which part of what I had said was not clear enough.
...essentially continuing to imply that the separatist sentiment is artificially created.
Correct. Glad that you finally got around to actually read my post.
What does 'incitement from Pakistan' suggest after all?
Incitement in the given context would be manipulating opinion in Pakistan's favour by 'pumping in money' (hope you remember the phrase).
Does the mere fact that Pakistan exists and claims Kashmir 'incitement'?
Nope. But keeping the supposed 'leaders' on Pakistani payroll is.
Of course it is - but we can't stop 'existing' or end our claim to Kashmir just because the occupying entity does not like it.
Your claim to Kashmir is, just what it is - a mere claim.
The Kashmiris have two choices, and for one party that claims their hearts and minds to actively support those campaigning for the right to self-determination as promised them is perfectly legitimate.
'Supporting' an issue is one thing. An interested party to a dispute actively trying to skew public opinion in ones favour is another. Keeping the so called leaders on one's payroll falls under later category. It is obvious that a plebiscite now will not be reflecting the true opinion of the people which one would expect to see under fair circumstances.

Now, more than ever, any dialogue with these leaders is out of question. Forget plebiscite for another ten thousand years or more. In all probability, there will now be concerted effort to show that it is in fact Lone, who is on Indian payroll.
 
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When quoting news articles, I think the rule should be that all PDF members should not deliberately change their original titles.
 
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They were not raped at all, the doctor admitted it that she replaced the swab under public pressure. It was later found that one was actually vigrin. This whole story is to create stir in J&K and it looks like it is the order of the day.
 
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They were not raped at all, the doctor admitted it that she replaced the swab under public pressure. It was later found that one was actually vigrin. This whole story is to create stir in J&K and it looks like it is the order of the day.

My question to you is that if the doc can change the statement (as mentioned) under pressure once what are the chances that now is not the case.
 
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