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even more important thing of this indian muslim is that he is from kashmir!!!SRINAGAR: Ever since Jammu & Kashmir became part of India, there has never been a Kashmiri Muslim general in the Army. This has now been remedied.

With the elevation of Brigadier Mohammad Amin Naik to the post of Major General, Kashmiris, who have historically felt alienated from the mainstream, would now have one grievance less



His father Ghulam Nabi Naik, a retired divisional commissioner, J&K, says, "I am thrilled to learn that my son has achieved the distinction of becoming Major General of the Indian Army." Recalling General Naik's childhood, the father said, "Amin was always enthusiastic and wanted to serve the nation and humanity."


Born on September 25, 1953, at Tral in Pulwama district of South Kashmir, General Naik has another "first" to his credit: He was the first to join the army from the entire district. He is currently posted with Integrated Defence Staff Headquarters as its assistant chief
It all sounds good and seems honky dory, but you have had Muslim presidents and Sikh PMs not forgetting Laloo Parsad, I don't see those minorities making a song and dance , what to say of a General giving any cause for rejoice.
 
@shhhahuuu
You are confusing socio-economic problems with freedom of religion. Indian muslims may be around 3-4% in the army and its not because they don't want to join the army as some people believe. There is a historic reason that most of the Indian muslims in the army went to Pakistan when the British Indian army was being divided. So two things need to happen, Indian muslims will themselves have to step up to the plate and the GoI should also encourage recruitment from all ethnic and religious groups to give the army a more holistic composition.

But this has NOTHING to do with freedom of religion. Even if there was not a single Muslim in the Indian army, muslims can still have freedom of religion. The Indian constitution provides to freedom to practice and preach any religion. Muslims along with other religious groups have their own personal laws that pertain to their personal life like marriage, inheritance e.t.c in accordance with their faith. Is there any other country in the world that provides this legal provision? This is freedom of religion that I was talking about.

So what I said still holds.

Hello Ejaz,

Sure we can leave Kashmires in peace if they are happy living with India. After all Pakistan has never offered its support to the people of Dakan who are not activly looking for it. So if Kashmires say we do not want freedom, we will be happy for them. There is no Zabardasti. So what is the best way to know if Kashmires want to stay with India or Pakistan? Indian Elections or a Plebiscite?
Well I'm talking about groups that specifically claim that they will establish a "Islamic" state in Kashmir (i.e. LeT, Hizb e.t.c.). There is no denying that there is significant sentiment for Independence in the border districts. But every single mainstream separatist group have advocated peaceful resolution. These Jihadi groups then assassinate if any kashmiri leader advocates joining India or even Independence. They even indulge in attacks to media outlets that criticize them. Is this justified?

The plebescite is not the solution for reasons I don't want to go in this thread. And these are statements from high ranking Pakistani negotiators as well. Opinion polls have been conducted though which an idea of what Kashmiris want can be gleaned. I suggest you go though the Kashmir conflict report on www.peacepolls.org


Regarding Muslims of Uighur, being a Muslim you can better understand that Jihad is not against "India" or "Israel". Jihad is universal and who ever is going against Islam will have to face it, so do the occupying forces of Uighur. But if you want to ask which Jihad should be fought first then the Jihad that has taken more Muslim Lives than the other is the obvious priority, no surprise its Kashmir and Palestine. Would you disagrees with that?

Yes unfortunately Jihad has been twisted and perverted and its the fault of muslims alone for making Jihad into some sort of a dangerous word today.

Jihad in the Islamic context, and in literal sense, the word jihad simply means a struggle—doing one’s utmost to further a worthy cause. This is an entirely peaceful struggle, with no overtones even of aggression. The actual Arabic equivalent of war, is qital or harb, and even this is meant in a defensive sense in the Quran.

I don't want to talk about Jihad bil Qitaal as everyone is aware of that, but this is used in only 2-3 verses out of the 6600+ verses in the Quran. Moreover, it is NOT some continuous fighting. Jihad is continous yes(I will explain this later) but not Jihad vil Qitaal. This is only a small part of Jihad and is only the last resort. There are special conditions for initiating it such as it can only be done by a state and how it should be conducted. Most importantly if there is freedom of religion there is no applicability of Jihad. If the GoP feels that it should militarily take over Kashmir. It should revoke peace treaties with Indian and THEN declare war. Only then these proxy groups can be allowed to fight. The problem is that these groups are BASED in Pakistani Kashmir. The United Jihad Council has offices in Muzaffarabad and issues press statements and recruits people.

On casualty figures, according to offcial figures about 50,000 have been killed in the 20 year conflict and that includes civilians, security forces and militants. Out of which 15000+ muslims alone have been killed by militants. Is this the "Jihad" that is suppose to protect the innocents as a last resort? Palestine and Kashmir are completely separate issues when you look at the scale of human right abuses. When was the last time Kashmiris were put in refugee camps and bombarded with white phosphorus?





Now on your insistence of Jihad as a continuous struggle, I feel compelled to go a little off-topic to discuss the concept of Jihad as you are only partially correct.

The predominant use of Jihad in Quran and Hadith is with the sense of striving or struggling for betterment of one's self or society. Unfortunately this meaning has been completely forgotten by muslims, what to talk about non-muslims.

Jihad in the Qur’an means striving to the utmost to present the teachings of the Qur’an before the people including to muslims themselves and thus to inculcate good values in them. That is, presenting the concept of One God, presenting akhirah-oriented life as superior to world-oriented life; principle-oriented life as against selfishness-oriented life; a humanitarian-oriented life as more elevated than a self-oriented life and a duty-oriented life as a categorical imperative taking moral precedence over a rights-oriented life.

So Jihad, according to Islam, is simply a natural requirement of daily living. It is vital both as a concept and as a practice because, while leading his life in this world, man is repeatedly confronted by such circumstances as are likely to derail him from the humanitarian path if he/she doesn't continue to strive and struggle to the morally right path. The re-assertion of his ethical sense is the real jihad which he has to wage.

From the Islamic standpoint, intention is all-important. Any undertaking carried out with good intentions will win God’s approval, while anything done with bad intentions is bound to be disapproved of and rejected by God. In actual fact, intentions are the sole criteria of good or bad actions in the divine scheme of things.

This truth relates jihad to man’s entire life and to all of his activities. Whatever man does in this world, be it at home, or in his professional capacity, in family or in social life, his prime imperative must be to carry it out with good intentions and not the reverse. This, however, is no simple matter. In all one’s dealings, adhering strictly to the right path requires a continuous struggle. Resisting temptation weather it is premarital sex, or alcohol or cheating your customer or taking bribes e.t.c. is part of the continuous Jihad bin nafs(self). This is a great and unremitting lifelong struggle and is rightly called Jihad-e-Akbar. And this is what is called jihad in the context you mentioned. It is NOT some lifelong violence that these so called "Jihadi" groups want you to believe.

Even if one is engaged in good works, such as the establishment and running of institutions which cater for social welfare or academic needs, or if one is personally engaged in social work or performing some service in the political field like protesting against injustices of the government whether they be against muslims or non-muslims, in all such works the element of personal glory has a way of creeping in. Therefore, in all such instances, it is essential that in the individuals concerned there should be a strong tendency to introspection, so that they may keep before them at all times the goal, not of personal glory but the greater glory of God alone. This effort is then also the struggle or Jihad that a person will be rewarded.

It is one’s intense inner struggle to make all activities God-oriented which makes it so powerful a concept and this is Jihad.

You can check this out for further reading:
Islam, Peace and Justice: The Concept of Jihad in Islam
The True Jihad: The Concepts Of Peace, Tolerance And Non-violence In Islam
 
General Amin Naik is the first Kashmiri to reach rank of Major General, otherwise there are plenty of Indian muslims who have reached high posts. Example Idris Lateef was chief of Air staff and even during war time held important position: chief of planning (air staff) in 65 and Commander of air defence (Eastern Command) in 1971 for which he got a medal for distinguished service as well.
 
Official results of GB polls announced

Is that so? So what exactly is Pakistan's Election commission doing conducting elections (Nov09) in the G-B areas where PPP (a mainstream Pakistani political party) won 11 seats while PMN-L (another mainstream Pakistani political party) won 2 seats? Why were these parties and others like MQM allowed to partake in elections, conducted by Pakistani election commission, in an area which, according to your post, is not Pakistan's sovereign territory?

Why isnt G-B part of "Azad Kashmir" or a more politically correct term "P-0-K?

What were you saying again? You, debunked a rant?
Because you don't have to create brand new infrastructure for a new Election commission. And the political parties contesting in G-B did so with candidates from G-B, along with independent candidates and some from local parties. People from G-B chose to join these parties and contest elections under them and vote for them.

Until the dispute is resolved, the territory must be administered in some fashion - since the UNSC resolutions did not provide a format of what that administration is supposed to look like, the controlling entity can administer the region as it sees fit, provided we do not annex it into Pakistan.

We could split it into 4 territories instead of 2 for example, if we thought it would allow better administration.

And since it is not a part of Pakistan under the Pakistani constitution, my point on the 'annexation argument being debunked' stands.

You, and the author, are clutching at straws to make the case of 'annexed' when it is clearly not.
 
General Amin Naik is the first Kashmiri to reach rank of Major General, otherwise there are plenty of Indian muslims who have reached high posts. Example Idris Lateef was chief of Air staff and even during war time held important position: chief of planning (air staff) in 65 and Commander of air defence (Eastern Command) in 1971 for which he got a medal for distinguished service as well.

Awesome - they love you, and hate Pakistan, how about implementing that commitment to the UNSC resolutions and holding a referendum now ...
 
It all sounds good and seems honky dory, but you have had Muslim presidents and Sikh PMs not forgetting Laloo Parsad, I don't see those minorities making a song and dance , what to say of a General giving any cause for rejoice.

i posted the stuff because one of your ranting colegue asked if there was any muslim general in the IA but we gave a reply with a irony --- a kashmiri-whose land you say should belong to pakistan is fighiting your *** off for his nation(india). that was the irony:woot:.....

and just come to india and say the name abdul kalam....you will see the praise and love this nation has for him.........oue very own" missile man:cool:"....the irony again that shows your nations so called pity for indian muslims is unwanted coz they are designing missiles to be launched against you :smokin:.......
 
Awesome - they love you, and hate Pakistan, how about implementing that commitment to the UNSC resolutions and holding a referendum now ...
Since you mentioned UNSC and referendum in the same sentence, have the tribals and Pakistani nationals packed up and moved? Is the current situation reflective of pre-conflict situation?
 
Since you mentioned UNSC and referendum in the same sentence, have the tribals and Pakistani nationals packed up and moved? Is the current situation reflective of pre-conflict situation?

I think they have - in any case, if they havn't, the preparations by the UN in registering voters, both inside J&K and outside (musn't forget the pandits who migrated or the millions settled in Europe, especially the UK), before a plebiscite takes place, could always settle that issue.

What is needed is the will to proceed forward with the plebisicte, the associated issues can be handled one way or another before the actual votes are cast. That these tertiary issues are raised as arguments against plebiscite speaks primarily to the obstructionist attitude of Indians and the GoI and an attempt to find any excuse, however lame, to not sumbit to the will of the Kashmiris as promised them by the UNSC resolutions and the GoI and GoP in accepting them.
 
i posted the stuff because one of your ranting colegue asked if there was any muslim general in the IA but we gave a reply with a irony --- a kashmiri-whose land you say should belong to pakistan is fighiting your *** off for his nation(india). that was the irony:woot:.....

and just come to india and say the name abdul kalam....you will see the praise and love this nation has for him.........oue very own" missile man:cool:"....the irony again that shows your nations so called pity for indian muslims is unwanted coz they are designing missiles to be launched against you :smokin:.......
Yes it's these very Muslims in India who are often reminded of their second class citizenship otherwise told to migrate to Pakistan.
Perhaps you should leave your missiles in the hands of Muslims to test fire them for you as well, who knows it may give you something to gloat about.:devil:
 
It's funny when we bring up Kashmir, indian members bring up the tribal areas of pakistan.

Try not divert the issue of kashmir, by talking about tribal areas of Pak, plus Kashmir cannot be compared to Tribal area's of Pakistan. Kashmir is a disputed area between two countries and tribal areas of pakistan is not a disputed territory.

If you want to compare the tribal areas of Pak, you can compare them with, Asam and such areas in India that want to be independent.
 
Yes it's these very Muslims in India who are often reminded of their second class citizenship otherwise told to migrate to Pakistan.
Perhaps you should leave your missiles in the hands of Muslims to test fire them for you as well, who knows it may give you something to gloat about.:devil:

This kind of stuff happens in your Pakistani media..and pakistani text books...... may be this is your way to pcify your egos....that can not digest tha fact that muslims are living in a hindu dominated country....you want to feel good by trying to dream of a situation wher you think than Indian muslims made a mistake staying back in India ....flouting Muslim believe that Hindus and muslims can not live under same gov government under similar laws.......irrespecctive of the fact that Pakistan could not stay one and got divided within 30 yrs of creatioon
 
....that can not digest tha fact that muslims are living in a hindu dominated country....

Would that be akin to Indians not being able to digest the fact that many Muslims, including perhaps those in Kashmir, did not/do not want to live in a 'secular India'?

Wouldn't that explain why so much of Indian history and Indian commentators demonize Jinnah and Pakistan and try to dig up a 'British Conspiracy' in partition, or blame it on anythign other than a popular peoples movement, so as to not confront the fact that the people of the lands comprising Pakistan wanted nothing to do with India?

Wouldn't that explain why India and Indians are so admantly opposed to holding a plebscite in J&K, despite accepting the validity of that solution and commmiting to the UNSC resolutions on Kashmir? Indians don't really want to face the thought that Kashmiris would reject this 'secular India' and choose Pakistan, and in order to not face that posibility, they are willing to violate the rights of Kashmiris to plebiscite and continue occupation.
 
This kind of stuff happens in your Pakistani media..and pakistani text books...... may be this is your way to pcify your egos....that can not digest tha fact that muslims are living in a hindu dominated country....you want to feel good by trying to dream of a situation wher you think than Indian muslims made a mistake staying back in India ....flouting Muslim believe that Hindus and muslims can not live under same gov government under similar laws.......irrespecctive of the fact that Pakistan could not stay one and got divided within 30 yrs of creatioon

And i suppose the Golden Temple blood shed, the destruction of Babri Mosque and the Gujrat genocide are just minor glitches in a thriving secular society, and keep in mind, there are over a dozen insurgent movements across India, basically no other country in the world has so many disgruntled and oppressed citizens.
 
Because you don't have to create brand new infrastructure for a new Election commission. And the political parties contesting in G-B did so with candidates from G-B, along with independent candidates and some from local parties. People from G-B chose to join these parties and contest elections under them and vote for them.

Until the dispute is resolved, the territory must be administered in some fashion - since the UNSC resolutions did not provide a format of what that administration is supposed to look like, the controlling entity can administer the region as it sees fit, provided we do not annex it into Pakistan.

We could split it into 4 territories instead of 2 for example, if we thought it would allow better administration.

And since it is not a part of Pakistan under the Pakistani constitution, my point on the 'annexation argument being debunked' stands.

You, and the author, are clutching at straws to make the case of 'annexed' when it is clearly not.

No one said anything about G-B being "officially" annexed. But for all practical purposes it is considered as a part of Pakistan, with Azad Kashmir (actually P-0-K) a feeble attempt at showing how concerned Pakistan is for the plight of Kashmiris! (Spare us the drama!)

As to your argument about the want of a proper administrative apparatus in place, India has been doing a far better job at that, albeit, considering those Kashmiris as Indian citizens, granting them special privileges under the Indian constitution, and accepting openly that Jammu & Kashmir is an integral part of India!

UNSC 'does not provide provisions to administer occupied territories' is a flawed argument. There are many other universally agreed upon treaties and accords (I am not very well versed with them, but they do come up with regards to the Palestinian territories - but I think it the 4th Geneva Convention which stipulates how occupied territories are to be administered) which provide guidelines as to how occupied territories should be governed. You cannot twist and take out of context various guidelines to suit your needs or apparent wrong doings and then accuse the other party of violating resolutions. Pakistan also stands guilty to moving people from other territories into its occupied part of Kashmir (now isn't that against some international agreement?)

Question: What does Pakistan's constitution say about Kashmir and any special provisions as per its status and administration?
 
And i suppose the Golden Temple blood shed, the destruction of Babri Mosque and the Gujrat genocide are just minor glitches in a thriving secular society, and keep in mind, there are over a dozen insurgent movements across India, basically no other country in the world has so many disgruntled and oppressed citizens.

brilliant rant....did you wrote it just now or copy pasted from a text file named guzw-ul-hind? I take Brainwashing and its side effects!

Wake up! As per other Pakistani's there are over 100 insurgencies in India yet

> i fail to see Indian Army positioned anywhere rolling with their tanks and calling for air strikes.

> I fail to see any curfew or media blackout.

> I fail to see why this Un-Secular India wont put a last fight using most state of the art tech with all insurgencies if it was to be reduced in tatters.

> I fail to see Indian army not resting in bunkers.

> I fail to see oppressed citizens taking asylum in neighboring countries en masses.

> I fail to see how India is not economically thriving inspite of disgruntled citizens.

> I fail to see how minority population is not increasing.

> I fail to see how they end up not taking PM or president or COAS post.

> I fail to see how they do not capture and hand over soldiers of countries that fight for their freedom.

> I fail to see how Gujrat has not emerged as economy beacon after riots.

> I fail to see how arabs and turks are not lined up in new delhi for treaties and cooperation

> I fail to see how masjid's not attacked in land of pure.

> I fail to see how 10x muslims not killed in Pakistan as compared to riots in India.

Sorry brother, i dont have answer to any of your allegations, I failed
 
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