Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Burhan Wani]

Murder you? Whatever for? Why would I waste time on a nonentity?



You may not be good at fighting, but you are very good at myth-making.

It's on record. From both American and Pakistani sources. Maybe they are nuts. But they are not your kind of sentimentalist, mooning over totally false information received as grandmother's tales, and believing them to be the truth.

The tribals were not using home-made rifles, they were using military issue weapons.




Have you even bothered to read the document? Read it. First, it did not include Jammu. Jammu already belonged to the Dogras. Second, it included all that part of Kashmir that had been ceded to the British by the Lahore Durbar. That included the Vale.



Are we supposed to believe that there was an independent kingdom right under the nose of the Sikhs? Really?

Poonch was under the Sikhs, and there was no independent ruler, as you seem to think. The rulers were Dogras related distantly to the Jammu Dogras. It was handed over to the Jammu Rajas as a jagir in 1836, losing its independent status in that year.



Of course they did. They were heroes and ten feet tall.

Read Akbar Khan before going public with your nonsense.



Again, rubbish. You evidently live in a world of your own imagining.

Read both Akbar Khan and Margaret Bourke-White, and then read Tariq Ali. Apart from your folk tales, you have nothing to add.



And what is the point you are trying to make? That the Poonchis were alone? In spite of Akbar Khan's comments about the help that Pakistan gave the malcontents?



Again, what is the point of that statement?

You may not be good at fighting, but you are very good at myth-making.

1. If we are not good at fighting then why British selected 80,000 poonchians to fight World war 2 and awarded military cross to our tirbesman.? These ex british army ww2 veterans with their personal struggle initiated rebellion against Dogra rulers.without any external help.

It's on record. From both American and Pakistani sources. Maybe they are nuts. But they are not your kind of sentimentalist, mooning over totally false information received as grandmother's tales, and believing them to be the truth.

2. "My research says in 1947 there were 50,000 Poonchis who had served in the British Army. Poonch was one of the major recruiting grounds for the British. These people would always think of themselves as fighters. There were no economic opportunities and inadequate landholdings in this area. So, most of them fought alongside the British, unlike Kashmiri Muslims, who had enough land to till and were involved in economic activities. Poonchis had military and combat skills. Although the Maharaja’s forces disarmed them, they went across the border to arms manufacturers in North-West Frontier Province and Dera Ismail Khan in Pakistan. They had a lot of local support; they managed to liberate their own area, defeated the Dogra army and even captured their arms."
Christopher Snedden's interview.

The tribals were not using home-made rifles, they were using military issue weapons.

3. If they were using issued weapons from Pakistan Army then where were their own weapons?



Have you even bothered to read the document? Read it. First, it did not include Jammu. Jammu already belonged to the Dogras. Second, it included all that part of Kashmir that had been ceded to the British by the Lahore Durbar. That included the Vale.

4. Poonch was princely state it was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir. Yes you can desire.




Of course they did. They were heroes and ten feet tall.

5. Yes we are taller than Gorkhas.



And what is the point you are trying to make? That the Poonchis were alone? In spite of Akbar Khan's comments about the help that Pakistan gave the malcontents?


6. Akbar Khan i am listening his name first time being a cloase relative of General Aziz Khan i will more trust local veterans.




Again, what is the point of that statement?

7. Hassan Jural was close friend and veteran of Poonch rebellion. While we are trying to capture Rajouri he turned towards his native village in GB for rebellion.

Bravo.
@waz

 

[Shamain]

@Joe Shearer
Kabaili Lahskars are summoned in late 1948 they came here to attack Srinagar and reinforcement to Azad Kashmir Regular forces now AK regiment.
Before their arrival many areas of Poonch,Mirpur, Rawalakot Kotli etc were liberated.


1832 rebellion was directly associated with Shah Ismail Shaheed and Syed Ahmad Shaheed. You are trying to mix facts.
Shah Ismail Shaheed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amritsar treaty included only Jammu and Kashmir, not Poonch,Kishtwar, and GB.

U didnt wnt to say 48 but 47. The weirdo went into seizure like fit over wrong year's mention.
Secondly, the rebellion in 1832 was against gulab singh rule. Dogra rule of entire state starts from 1846.

Rest let him cry clutching onto his own version of history which is typical stuff propagated by indians. He is an indian..whatelse u expect from him. The same crap that locals didnt fight it was tribals.
Btw does he even know how to say qabaili? What is qabali.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You may not be good at fighting, but you are very good at myth-making.

1. If we are not good at fighting then why British selected 80,000 poonchians to fight World war 2 and awarded military cross to our tirbesman.? These ex british army ww2 veterans with their personal struggle initiated rebellion against Dogra rulers.without any external help.

You. Not they.

It's on record. From both American and Pakistani sources. Maybe they are nuts. But they are not your kind of sentimentalist, mooning over totally false information received as grandmother's tales, and believing them to be the truth.

2. "My research says in 1947 there were 50,000 Poonchis who had served in the British Army. Poonch was one of the major recruiting grounds for the British. These people would always think of themselves as fighters. There were no economic opportunities and inadequate landholdings in this area. So, most of them fought alongside the British, unlike Kashmiri Muslims, who had enough land to till and were involved in economic activities. Poonchis had military and combat skills. Although the Maharaja’s forces disarmed them, they went across the border to arms manufacturers in North-West Frontier Province and Dera Ismail Khan in Pakistan. They had a lot of local support; they managed to liberate their own area, defeated the Dogra army and even captured their arms."
Christopher Snedden's interview.

You don't really mind contradicting yourself, do you?

First you say that the qabailis handed over their superior weapons to the Poonchis to fight their rebellion.

Then you quote Christopher Snedden to the effect that arms came from the NWFP and from Dera Ismail Khan.

And all the time, we also have Akbar Khan's testimony that the Pakistan Army handed over 4,000 rifles to the Poonchis.

Make up your mind. But then, in order to do that, you would have to be capable of distinguishing between fact and fiction.

The tribals were not using home-made rifles, they were using military issue weapons.

3. If they were using issued weapons from Pakistan Army then where were their own weapons?

This is as stupid as it gets.
Their own arms? At home,where they belonged.
When they were getting better guns from Army surplus supplies, why would they use their own village-made guns to fight?

Have you even bothered to read the document? Read it. First, it did not include Jammu. Jammu already belonged to the Dogras. Second, it included all that part of Kashmir that had been ceded to the British by the Lahore Durbar. That included the Vale.

4. Poonch was princely state it was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir. Yes you can desire.

You really need to think before you write.

How could they be in rebellion against the Maharaja and his forces if they were not part of Jammu and Kashmir? You quoted Snedden; here is Snedden on the subject:

"In 1947, people in Jammu Province engaged in three major actions that divided Jammu and Kashmir and confirmed that the princely state was not deliverable in its entirety to India or Pakistan. The first was a pro-Pakistan, anti-Maharaja uprising by Muslim Poonchis in western Jammu that 'liberated' large parts of this area from the Maharaja's control. ......Each was initiated, and then largely undertaken, by J&K state subjects - local people of J&K who ha a legtimate right to be in the princely state."

That should make it clear to even the most dense. But sometimes even this direct, blunt evidence fails; let us hope and pray.

Of course they did. They were heroes and ten feet tall.

5. Yes we are taller than Gorkhas.

And what is the point you are trying to make? That the Poonchis were alone? In spite of Akbar Khan's comments about the help that Pakistan gave the malcontents?


6. Akbar Khan i am listening his name first time being a cloase relative of General Aziz Khan i will more trust local veterans.

Actually, your opinion and your trust really does not matter. The world goes by concrete evidence, not by your gossip and anecdote. And the concrete evidence, corroborated by the identity of various independent sources, is that the Poonch uprising was supported and assisted by Maj. Gen. Akbar Khan, acting under his nom de guerre of General Tariq.

Again, what is the point of that statement?

7. Hassan Jural was close friend and veteran of Poonch rebellion. While we are trying to capture Rajouri he turned towards his native village in GB for rebellion.

Bravo.
@waz

U didnt wnt to say 48 but 47. The weirdo went into seizure like fit over wrong year's mention.
Secondly, the rebellion in 1832 was against gulab singh rule. Dogra rule of entire state starts from 1846.

Rest let him cry clutching onto his own version of history which is typical stuff propagated by indians. He is an indian..whatelse u expect from him. The same crap that locals didnt fight it was tribals.
Btw does he even know how to say qabaili? What is qabali.

Er, yes, a year does make a difference. And he didn't seem to know the difference. Secondly, the Gulab Singh that you mention was the same Dogra who ruled the state of Jammu and Kashmir from 1846 as a subordinate of the British Crown. Earlier, he ruled Poonch as a suzerain from 1836, not from 1832; in 1832, Poonch was under a separate Dogra chieftain, distantly related to Gulab Singh's family. The rebellion happened in 1832; neither Gulab Singh nor the Jammu Durbar was in the picture at that date.

 

[Burhan Wani]

U didnt wnt to say 48 but 47. The weirdo went into seizure like fit over wrong year's mention.
Secondly, the rebellion in 1832 was against gulab singh rule. Dogra rule of entire state starts from 1846.

Rest let him cry clutching onto his own version of history which is typical stuff propagated by indians. He is an indian..whatelse u expect from him. The same crap that locals didnt fight it was tribals.
Btw does he even know how to say qabaili? What is qabali.

It is a common sence we started rebellion in year 18 october 1947, and formed Governement 24 october 1947.
How can it possible that someone started travelling from FATA can reach AJK so quickly.
He said Pakistan Army provided them arms and Ammunation.
It is a part of Mehsud,Afridis and Wazirs tradition to hold rifle just like a part of their body. They have local arms factories at their homes, even they provided rifles to PA as well.
Gulab SIngh was a junior ranked officer at Ranjit Singh's army, he overthrowed Sikhs rule and formed his own Dogra rule.

Er, yes, a year does make a difference. And he didn't seem to know the difference. Secondly, the Gulab Singh that you mention was the same Dogra who ruled the state of Jammu and Kashmir from 1846 as a subordinate of the British Crown. Earlier, he ruled Poonch as a suzerain from 1836, not from 1832; in 1832, Poonch was under a separate Dogra chieftain, distantly related to Gulab Singh's family. The rebellion happened in 1832; neither Gulab Singh nor the Jammu Durbar was in the picture at that date.

Gulab singh was in Ranjit Singhs' army.
Enlist your questions with effective evidence. I will not allow you to insult my veterans and heroes like this.
Your every post try to insult me as well as my tribemen.
1. Poonch was a princely state and it was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir. If i am wrong then prove it.

2. Initially we fought with our own resources and formed Gvt Azad kAshmir and our own president. Later Pakistan Army and tribemen got involvement only to liberate other areas, like Rajouri, Srinagar, etc. If not then proove.

3. At that time Pakistan Army Chief was British he denied to provide support to Azad Kashmir Regular Forces, thatswhy Quaid Azam requested FATA tibes to help AKRF with their own home made rifles .303 Le Enfield.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is a common sence we started rebellion in year 18 october 1947, and formed Governement 24 october 1947.

<sigh>

There is no cure for ignorance.

Back to Snedden, since you appear to have heard of no one else.

"Anti-Maharaja activity possibly commenced as early as February 1947, and almost certainly was occurring by June 1947.....A press note issued on 12th September by the J&K Government confirms this campaign: 'Early in August in....Poonch Jagir, evilly disposed persons launched a violent agitation against the administration of the jagir in favour of civil disobedience and No Tax campaign'.

History is not common sense. History is fact. Christopher Snedden, whom you yourself have quoted, is fact.

How can it possible that someone started travelling from FATA can reach AJK so quickly.

From February (or maybe June) to October is not sufficient time?

He said Pakistan Army provided them arms and Ammunation.
It is a part of Mehsud,Afridis and Wazirs tradition to hold rifle just like a part of their body. They have local arms factories at their homes, even they provided rifles to PA as well.

No.
Not in this case.
They were specifically and consciously armed by Pakistan. Read Margaret Bourke-White. She explodes the myth of 'local arms factories' providing this weaponry.

Gulab SIngh was a junior ranked officer at Ranjit Singh's army, he overthrowed Sikhs rule and formed his own Dogra rule.

Yeah, right.

What an historical genius you are.

Until the downfall of the Lahore Durbar, Gulab Singh remained a functionary of that Durbar. He was not a junior officer at all; he was made Raja of Jammu by Ranjit Singh in 1822, after his father, Kishore Singh, died. Kishore Singh, and his family, were kinsmen of the last independent Raja of Jammu, Jit Singh. Dogra rule hardly started in 1842, or after Ranjit Singh's death; it was present from before the Sikh Empire, it was made a subordinate principality by the Sikh

Between 1831 and 1839, he was awarded several jagirs, including Jhelum, Rohtas and Gujarat. I don't know how you got this story of his being a junior officer of the Sikh Army (he was one, right at the very outset of his career, on first joining the Sikh forces). On Ranjit Singh's death, he was a minister at the highest level; meanwhile, from four years prior to that, from 1835 onwards, even under the Sikh Empire, Gulab Singh's general had conquered Kargil, the remainder of Ladakh which was unconquered, and Baltistan.

It was after the defeat of the Sikhs by the British that he took steps to buy up the portions of the Lahore Durbar's domain that had been ceded to the British.

It is a common sence we started rebellion in year 18 october 1947, and formed Governement 24 october 1947.
How can it possible that someone started travelling from FATA can reach AJK so quickly.
He said Pakistan Army provided them arms and Ammunation.
It is a part of Mehsud,Afridis and Wazirs tradition to hold rifle just like a part of their body. They have local arms factories at their homes, even they provided rifles to PA as well.
Gulab SIngh was a junior ranked officer at Ranjit Singh's army, he overthrowed Sikhs rule and formed his own Dogra rule.

Gulab singh was in Ranjit Singhs' army.

So? He was not in charge of Poonch at that stage. He only was gifted this territory as a jagir, without displacing the existing Dogra ruler there, another subordinate of Ranjit Singh, in 1836.

Enlist your questions with effective evidence. I will not allow you to insult my veterans and heroes like this.
Your every post try to insult me as well as my tribemen.

Your ignorance is a sufficient insult to them. You do not take any trouble to find the facts, but just make wild statements and then expect sympathy. For every single thing that I have said, I have quoted historical authorities.

1. Poonch was a princely state and it was not a part of Jammu and Kashmir. If i am wrong then prove it.

Very simple; if it was a princely state, why did Snedden say it was part of J&K?

[quote}2. Initially we fought with our own resources and formed Gvt Azad kAshmir and our own president. Later Pakistan Army and tribemen got involvement only to liberate other areas, like Rajouri, Srinagar, etc. If not then proove.[/quote]

Akbar Khan's book.

3. At that time Pakistan Army Chief was British he denied to provide support to Azad Kashmir Regular Forces, thatswhy Quaid Azam requested FATA tibes to help AKRF with their own home made rifles .303 Le Enfield.

There was no question of home-made rifles; the raiders were using mortars and light machine guns.

@engineer saad A piece of advice: don't get insulted; get educated and get informed. Being an engineer is a notable achievement. It does not make you an historian. You have to read, you have to see through deceptions and exaggerations, you have to be discriminating. Blind hero-worship is not history; it is just that, hero-worship.

 

[The Eagle]

Meanwhile.... are they all Pakistan's terrorists....?

https://twitter.com/x/status/805869510758723584

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

What happened to all those Indian fools that claimed 'Kashmir insurgency stopped after demonetization?

 

[The Eagle]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1270560119689721

 

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/831832898764419073

 

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/832228717304881152

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

More defections, their morale has really been low

https://twitter.com/x/status/865952140619124736

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036543167393394688

 

[PDF]

Pakistan’s UN Ambassador Maleeha Lodhi reacts to the latest in the Kashmir conflict and what it means for Pakistan’s role in Afghanistan.

Ongoing troubles with India in Kashmir threaten Pakistan's attention and considerable influence in a potential peace agreement aimed at ending an 18-year conflict involving U.S. and Taliban forces in Afghanistan, according to the Pakistani U.N. ambassador.

“The current crisis between Pakistan and India will obviously mean that Pakistan will have to put its full focus on its eastern border and it could affect what it is trying to do on the front with Afghanistan,” Pakistan’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations, Maleeha Lodhi, told Fox News on Friday. “In other words, our full focus is going to be on the eastern frontier rather than the western front and that could affect the peace process. Our attention is going to be where we feel there is a military threat to us.”

And Pakistan believes that threat is from the Indian border, Lodhi emphasized.

“Both (Afghanistan) and (Kashmir) issues are important in their own right. But it is the eastern border, India, which has already attacked Pakistan. They sent planes into our territory. That’s a hot border,” she said. “Afghanistan is a different situation. We would like that war to end. But we don’t perceive a threat from our western border. It’s our eastern border that we perceive a threat.”



At the gates on the Pakistan side of the Indian border in Jammu and Kashmir, known as the "Line of Control" (LOC)(Fox News/Hollie McKay)

Pakistan on Friday fulfilled its pledge to hand over the Indian pilot who was downed amid the escalating military tensions between the two countries last week. Pakistan viewed the release as a “gesture of peace,” which they claim has not been reciprocated. Shelling and cross-border violence continued over the weekend, leaving at least eight dead.

“We are in the midst of a very tense situation, a very fraught situation,” Lodhi continued. "The Indian leadership is failing to respond to the Prime Minister's repeated gestures (for peace), which included the gesture of freeing and releasing the Indian pilot who was flying his plane to attack Pakistan."

VIOLENT CLASHES BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN LEAVE SIX CIVILIANS, TWO PAKISTANI SOLDIERS DEAD

The unrest in Kashmir was re-ignited on Feb. 14, after a suicide bombing killed more than 40 Indian paramilitary troops in Kashmir. India retaliated with airstrikes, and has made clear it will take an aggressive approach to combat terrorism in the disputed region.

Indian bombers on Tuesday struck a hilly area close to the Kashmir border, with New Delhi claiming to have killed an active militant training camp, where some 300 alleged terrorists were training. But Pakistan insists there were no camps in the area, and no evidence of casualties, other than an elderly villager believed to have been wounded.



Pakistan’s permanent representative to the United Nations, Maleeha Lodhi

Jammu and Kashmir is a picturesque terrain, framed by the Himalayan mountains. But it’s also a contentious and disputed region marred by a long history of bloodshed, four wars, frequent skirmishes, and a revived fear that tit-for-tat fighting between the two could lead to a nuclear showdown.

KASHMIRI RESIDENTS FEAR ESCALATING CYCLE OF VIOLENCE BETWEEN INDIA, PAKISTAN

The fight for Kashmir remains one of the longest-standing military conflicts in the world, dating back to 1947. After Hindu-majority India and Muslim-dominant Pakistan were granted independence from Britain, the two countries have battled for control of the disputed area.

Both countries today possess an arsenal of more than 100 nuclear warheads, raising concerns in the international community about what might happen if the situation between the two countries deteriorates.



Kashmiri children hold placards and shout freedom slogans in Srinagar, Indian controlled Kashmir, Friday, March 1, 2019. India has banned Jama'at-e-Islami, a political-religious group in Kashmir, in a sweeping and ongoing crackdown against activists seeking the end of Indian rule in the disputed region amid the most serious confrontation between India and Pakistan in two decades. (AP Photo/ Dar Yasin)

“The Kashmir dispute has been a frozen conflict for decades. They (India and Pakistan) are both to blame but in different ways,” said Parag Khanna, founding partner of FutureMap and author of “The Future is Asian.” “India for failing to credibly enfranchise and incorporate Kashmiris, Muslims or otherwise, and Pakistan for continuing to harbor Kashmiri separatist militants and fundamentalist groups for conducting cross-border attacks with impunity.”

Indian officials have for decades tried to suppress the separatist insurgency, which gained momentum in the late 1980s with the backing or at least the quiet acceptance of Pakistan, according to many observers in the international community. Pakistan has denied such accusations and consistently accuses India of committing mass human rights violations against the Kashmiri population.

India has asked Pakistan “over and over” to hand over actionable intelligence pointing to specific terrorist groups in the region. Some information has been passed along in recent days, and India is currently evaluating that information for certifiable proof of militant activity.

“But simply to hurl allegations because of your own failure is not a responsible way to act,” Lodhi charged. “Nor does it bring peace to our region.”

While analysts have contended progress in India-Pakistan relations would bolster Pakistan’s position in assisting the U.S.’s goal of squashing extremism in both Afghanistan and Pakistan and bring stability to the wider region, some Pakistan critics claim that Afghanistan’s peace process – which will likely entail a U.S troop withdrawal – could actually then put the militant’s spotlight back on India, and re-ignite a dangerous new phase of the old war.


An Indian army soldier walks past the wreckage of an Indian aircraft after it crashed in Budgam area, outskirts of Srinagar, Indian controlled Kashmir, Wednesday, Feb.27, 2019. (AP Photo/Mukhtar Khan)

According to many Afghan officials, “Kashmiri militants have always been recruited by Pakistan to fight against the government in Afghanistan,” which itself is to blame for prolonging the war. "If U.S. and NATO troops withdraw from Afghanistan, it will be a big victory for terrorism, and the condition in the Kashmir will worsen because then all the terrorist activities will be focused there,” contended Col. Ahmad Muslem Hayat, a former Afghan military attaché in London.



A spokesperson for the US State Department said Monday that the United States policy on Kashmir has not changed.

"The pace, scope, and character of any discussions on Kashmir is for the two sides to determine, but we support any and all positive steps India and Pakistan can take to forge closer relations," said the representative.

Representatives for India’s embassy and U.N. Mission, as well as those for Afghanistan, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakis...l-focus-could-impact-the-afghan-peace-process