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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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Kashmiris should and will, keep fighting for their freedom! They should never forget the women, children, men who have been killed the the Indian terrorists.

And they should always keep the honour of our brave Mujahids!!!!



-Pakistan and Kashmir Zindabad
 
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@ Adeos Amigos

Whatever you may term my Post as , It wsnt offtopic though :disagree:
 
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Ever wondered how it became 95% majority..? Nearly a million Hindu pandits were terrorised into leaving their native lands by these same separatists and now giving into their demands only validates that ethinic cleansing done in the early 90s.




In a democratic country they have every right to protest for whatever reason they see fit.
But that doesnt mean the state has to fulfil every one of their demands.
The MahaRaja signed the accession of Kashmir in 1947 and that is there to stay.

This struggle based on a flawed notion of religious intolerance and the supposed supremacy of one religion over other cannot be entertained in a secular democracy.

PS: the bolded apart caught my eye.If by any chance you are mentioning the supposed raping of two girls in Shopian,then sorry it has been proved that they were not raped and they died by drowning in the nullah.
The governement doctor under pressure from the local separatist leaders fudged his report and that has been proved.

So all the killing of unarmed civilians,raping etc are by and large only of propaganda value fed to keep the hate against India alive.


First of all kindly get your facts straight regarding the Kashmir Valley, there has always been more than 90% Muslim Majority in the Kashmir Valley since long before the creation of modern day India and Pakistan.
In the 1901 census it was more than 95% Muslim majority in Kashmir valley.
The Kashmir valley actually had much more population of Muslims than any other area since this was heavily populated as opposed to other areas further North.

Now you do not accept this fact but try to paint a picture of ethnic cleansing, that is not only wrong but a deliberate attempt to distort facts and remain in denial mode.
There has never been a case of Muslim minority becoming a majority due to ethnic cleansing in Kashmir Valley.

By denying Kashmiris the right to determine their own fate, it seems that religious intolerance indeed came into play. The Maharaja was not a Muslim so he did not honor the wishes of the Muslims.
The secular democracy promised these people that their wishes would be honored and now we stand here today when there is civil unrest, so i do not think the Kashmiri Muslims in the valley feel that their wishes have been honored.

Clearly something is wrong here for Kashmiris to still be upset and if there is debate raised about the majority of Muslims in Kashmir Valley as being a farce then it only proves that there is a deliberate attempt to reject the validity of the demands of local population of Kashmir Valley.

What of the Maharajah who cared not about what the population in Kashmir Valley felt?
The heads of the states of Hyderabad and Junagadh decided to join with Pakistan but the matter was taken out of their hands by virtue of the majority population being non Muslim, clearly India did not adhere to any one principle here so at the end of the day we have to see whether the population of the subject area is happy or feels agitated.

Regarding the r ape case, you are ignoring huge criticism not from the local population but many Indians including leading doctors.
You are so confident to disprove it as just a lie by the separatists who are raping and killing their own to discredit Indian State...this kind of attitude is what shall turn the Kashmiris away from India.

The judicial inquiry into the matter proved that there was brutal violence and r ape and there was the matter of police cover ups and the police/paramilitary pickets around the area.
The torture marks did not occur due to drowning and the autopsy did confirm the r ape and murder.
There is severe criticism of the later U Turn taken in this case to disprove the r ape thus acquitting those responsible and closing the case as natural deaths due to drowning.
That too by doing tissue testing after 3 months!
The criticism comes from all circles including leading doctors in India as well who question the credibility of doing tissue testing after three months of death!
To disprove a r ape like this is incredible and has only resulted in more unrest.

This is not a one off incident and it clearly shows what the problem is, a breach of trust which only becomes wider day by day.
The reason for this is mutual dislike of Kashmiris and the state forces which have been deployed there.
There is hate against Kashmiri Muslims because what they want is not something in line with the Indian interest, so much so that even the Muslim majority of Kashmir Valley is now seen as something which resulted from ethnic cleansing!

Slowly this dislike has resulted in more and more violence because the Kashmiri Muslim sentiments are seen as anti state...a very dangerous thing because this means there is a huge gray area for abuse of power to happen and ample cover ups.
I say this because the motto of serve and protect will not apply here when the Kashmiri Muslims are seen as traitors and we all know that if there is deviation from this motto, then there is no end to abuse of power which has indeed been taking place.

Anyways, India can continue in this manner only if it has already established that Local Kashmiri Muslims are not to be won over by peaceful means and deserve what they are getting.
Calling them insurgents or separatists would not change the fact that it is a civil unrest and there is a history of sweeping things under the carpet, otherwise situation would not have become so critical and the supreme democratic values would have won over the population which is supposedly being brutalized by the insurgents and being rescued by the Indian State...this is certainly not reflected by the emotions which are prevalent in the streets of the Kashmir valley.
 
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First of all kindly get your facts straight regarding the Kashmir Valley, there has always been more than 90% Muslim Majority in the Kashmir Valley since long before the creation of modern day India and Pakistan.
In the 1901 census it was more than 95% Muslim majority in Kashmir valley.
The Kashmir valley actually had much more population of Muslims than any other area since this was heavily populated as opposed to other areas further North.

Now you do not accept this fact but try to paint a picture of ethnic cleansing, that is not only wrong but a deliberate attempt to distort facts and remain in denial mode.
There has never been a case of Muslim minority becoming a majority due to ethnic cleansing in Kashmir Valley.

By denying Kashmiris the right to determine their own fate, it seems that religious intolerance indeed came into play. The Maharaja was not a Muslim so he did not honor the wishes of the Muslims.
The secular democracy promised these people that their wishes would be honored and now we stand here today when there is civil unrest, so i do not think the Kashmiri Muslims in the valley feel that their wishes have been honored.

Clearly something is wrong here for Kashmiris to still be upset and if there is debate raised about the majority of Muslims in Kashmir Valley as being a farce then it only proves that there deliberate attempt to reject the validity of the demands of local population of Kashmir Valley.

What of the Maharajah who cared not about what the population in Kashmir Valley felt?
The heads of the states of Hyderabad and Junagadh decided to join with Pakistan but the matter was taken out of their hands by virtue of the majority population being non Muslim, clearly India did not adhere to any one principle here so at the end of the day we have to see whether the population of the subject area is happy or feels agitated.

Regarding the r ape case, you are ignoring huge criticism not from the local population but many Indians including leading doctors.
You are so confident to disprove it as just a lie by the separatists who are raping and killing their own to discredit Indian State...this kind of attitude is what shall turn the Kashmiris away from India.

The judicial inquiry into the matter proved that there was brutal violence and r ape and there was the matter of police cover ups and the police/paramilitary pickets around the area.
The torture marks did not occur due to drowning and the autopsy did confirm the r ape and murder.
There is severe criticism of the later U Turn taken in this case to disprove the r ape thus acquitting those responsible and closing the case as natural deaths due to drowning.
That too by doing tissue testing after 3 months!
The criticism comes from all circles including leading doctors in India as well who question the credibility of doing tissue testing after three months of death!
To disprove a r ape like this is incredible and has only resulted in more unrest.

This is not a one off incident and it clearly shows what the problem is, a breach of trust which only becomes wider day by day.
The reason for this is mutual dislike of Kashmiris and the state forces which have been deployed there.
There is hate against Kashmiri Muslims because what they want is not something in line with the Indian interest, so much so that even the Muslim majority of Kashmir Valley is now seen as something which resulted from ethnic cleansing!

Slowly this dislike has resulted in more and more violence because the Kashmiri Muslim sentiments are seen as anti state...a very dangerous thing because this means there is a huge gray area for abuse of power to happen and ample cover ups.
I say this because the motto of serve and protect will not apply here when the Kashmiri Muslims are seen as traitors and we all know that if there is deviation from this motto, then there is no end to abuse of power which has indeed been taking place.

Anyways, India can continue in this manner only if it has already established that Local Kashmiri Muslims are not to be won over by peaceful means and deserve what they are getting.
Calling them insurgents or separatists would not change the fact that it is a civil unrest and there is a history of sweeping things under the carpet, otherwise situation would not have become so critical and the supreme democratic values would have won over the population which is supposedly being brutalized by the insurgents and being rescued by the Indian State...this is certainly not reflected by the emotions which are prevalent in the streets of the Kashmir valley.

Hi,

First things first (the main theme) - Regarding genocide of the Hindus in Kashmir:

K P S Gill: The Kashmiri Pandits: An Ethnic Cleansing the World Forgot

WHITE PAPER ON KASHMIR -------Chapter 4 Genocide of Hindus-----ETHNIC CLEANSING

Aronite thinking- Ethnic Cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits

Take your time,read through these and get back to me whether this can or cannot be called "Ethinic cleansing/Genocide".

For further reading google "Ethinic cleansing in Kashmir" and you ll get dozens and dozens of poignant accounts.

After all these do you expect any Indian to support these fundamentalists,who now cry of excesses, after all they have done?

The Kashmiri Muslims themselves chose the path of the gun way back in the 90s and did all kinds of intimidation on the minorities..Now what moral right do they have to protest when they are paid back in the same coin

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Regarding Indian "invasion" of Junagadh,how many times it has been clarified that it was the father of ZAB who himself called in the Indian forces because Pakistan was "unable" to quell the unrest,before he fleed to Pakistan himself.

In today's world Might is right.
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Thirdly regarding Extra judicial killings - of course when there is a counter insurgency going on against a "cross-border" patronised insurgency there will be collateral damage.

Tell me one insurgency in the world which did not suffer any collateral damage and all the casualties were strictly either the Sec. forces or the insurgents.

But the good thing is with insurgency at an alltime low accountability of the Sec forces is more and more implemented and soon it will be free of all this accusations.

And again for your argument that many doctors in India itself said it was **** - there are enough ppl in both our country who will do anything it takes to hog the lime-light,even if it goers against the ethics of their profession.
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Lastly on the right to self-determination,the Kashmiris are not some god's chosen ppl who will get all they demand.Believe me if all the people of this world were to get a chance at this "Right to self-determination",you and me have to study Geography once more to re-learn the maps of the world.
 
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CORRECTION 21 years since 1989!!!!!!!!!!!

no
you need to be corrected 63 years since partition thats since when this stuggle started and last time picked up pace in 1989. it was there before and thats how locals of Kotli, Mirpur, Rawalakot Sakurdu & Baltistan liberated Kashmir.
1989 is the rise of the Kashmir Valley mainly Sirinager.
 
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With respect to your thinkings the reality is in stark contrast to what you have tried to potray.

See I am tired of explaining this again and again.

So I will just say shortly in one sentence - "Another Partition bassed on religion is not happening in India" .Period.

The sooner my neighbours and the Valley Muslims realise it,the better for all.

remeber the catch phrase "right of self determination, right of freedom" thats what the United Nations was based on
thats what the Modren democracies are based on.

the will of the People cant be stopped by the force of the guns alone. sooner or later the oppresser has to give in.

its not jsut the religion alone. its the geography, custom and the language as well. the Kashmiris dont find much common to keep that sham relation with India.
 
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^^ Why you give funny source like greaterkashmir.
Case Dismissed.

ever heard of the phrase "a picture speaks thousand words" ?
did you shy away from the shameful & barbaric crackdown of Indian forces on the Kashmiri people?

I do agree with your comment though .. the case is Dismissed for Indian claim over Kashmir

Kashmir shall be free from Indian occupation in our lifetime
 
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Kashmir is a whole other picture. We are seeing the grim realities everyday, despite media blackouts, censorship and intimidation tactics by the occupational forces (sissies)


the scale and continuity of the atrocities right from the time of partition is so huge & the human tragedy in the modern time so heart rending that the world is finding it hard to ignore it.
India is making all efforts in terms of brutal suppression and an aggressive propaganda at the international world things might seem to be holding for now but Indian policy makers are aware that the end game is near and Kashmir is slipping from their illegal occupation. Every Indian government just wishes that it doesn’t have to bear the mark of being the movement when Kashmir became independent of its occupation.
 
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hey thanks for being so generous. surely it has something to do with being a citizen of biggest democracy.

Of course...a citizen can ask for the moon if he/she wants. Only it depends on the country whether it obliges or not.:D

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

I feel sorry for u bharti.....:sick:

His name is Fateh71, not Bharti.

And if by any chance you meant 'Indian'....then we are all proud to be Indians.
 
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remeber the catch phrase "right of self determination, right of freedom" thats what the United Nations was based on
thats what the Modren democracies are based on.

Ahem ahem....there is also another,more important catch phrase - "territorial integrity" .Thats what sucessful nation states are based upon.

And please dont bring in the impotent UN in this.It didnt have the power to stop the Iraq war where a nation defied the world and went to war.

That moment UN lost its credibility as an impartial international watchdog.

the will of the People cant be stopped by the force of the guns alone. sooner or later the oppresser has to give in.

It has not suceeded in China,Ireland,Spain.Perhaps we would like to emulate them.

its not jsut the religion alone. its the geography, custom and the language as well. the Kashmiris dont find much common to keep that sham relation with India.

Its absolutely religion alone.If not why did the Ladakhis,Jammuites,the Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs are not having any problems with India and proudly identify India as their motherland.?

Or according to you,Kashmiri Pandits,Sikhs,Dogras etc are not "sufficient" Kashmiris?
 
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'Valley's most wanted separatist leader' arrested - Rediff.com India News

In a major success, Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] police on Monday evening arrested Masarat Alam Bhat, the most wanted separatist leader and a close aide of hard-line Syed Ali Shah Geelani [ Images ], from the outskirts of Srinagar [ Images ].

A senior police officer said Masarat Alam Bhat was arrested by a police party from a house in Wangund area of Srinagar during a raid.

"We have got him," the officer said. Bhat has now been shifted to an undisclosed location for questioning.

Masarat Alam Bhat, a close aide of Geelani, was the most wanted separatist leader who was eluding the security forces for over past four months.

He was released earlier in June in Srinagar after remaining under detention for two long years under the Public Safety Act.

During Geelani's detention, Bhat along with Dukhtarani Milat, chief of Asiya Andrabi, launched the 'Quit Kashmir campaign' in June when large scale protests and violence erupted in the wake of the killing of a 17-year old student Tufail Ahmad Mattoo after being hit by a teargas shell in Srinagar.

Masarat had two day's back released a CD wherein he had hailed Geelani for 'his steadfastness and integrity' urging 'people to continue to render support to him.'

Security forces have been conducting raids to nab Masarat Alam Bhat, general secretary of the Geelani led All Parties Hurriyat Conference group.

Bhat shot into prominence for his 'hawkish image' and his close association with Geelani.
 
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Why did they disclose it ? ;)
 
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Why did they disclose it ? ;)

As kashmir does not belong to Indians so you Indians indeed do not know the ground realities so here i should tell you.


Masarat Alam Bhat had been arrested on and off since many decades and he has spent his entire life up till now almost in jail. They arrest him and then free him then arrest him.

lolz he is not most wanted rather Indians are paranoid with him. i will start posting stories about him and you will know.

This was not some big achievement by Indians but rather continuation of Indian barbarism against Masarat Alam Bhat.
 
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