Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[ek_indian]

The Kashmiri leaders are Kashmiris and there is NO question of divide.

You know well this is not correct. Some talks about 5point formula while other talk of 4 point. From the hardline stance to the solution to political thought, everything is divided.

Whatever Kashmiris want must be done simple and straightforward.

Agreed. Howver sonde there are not agreement between different fractions, it is hard to decide what are the actual demands. Somke of the demands are listed in one leader/section but they are not in others.

Also it is also important to consider who should be included as Kashmiris. There are many people who are displaced and have every right to call themselves Kashmiris.

Lastly, we have not even started with India POV yet.

Hold a free referendum under international bodies and if Kashmiris decided to join India then we would have NO issue with that.

This topic is discussed on this forum till boredom. I do not want to initiate one more. You may assume that evel Indian ran away insread of giving answers.

thats why India have to keep million of army there to curb freedom movement.

Millios of army?? Anyways, we should remember that army was not depolyed there always. Also the region is border area that too with mutual hostile nations.

If you are so confident of that majority want to remain with India then why you are shying away from holding a referendum ???

I think answer is known. There are some precondition involved vefore so-calleed rererendun. Meanwhile demographics have been altered as well.
BTW, India gives people of Kashmir chance of electing their representatives every 5 years.

 

[KS]

What's funny is that you can say whatever you want (without thinking) but a logical comment from this side makes you twitch.

BTW, how would they know those who were killed were hizbul mujaheedin? Was that engraved on their foreheads? They can be from the numerous freedom fighter groups operating inside IOK.

As for your NATO crap i may say the likes of Kasab were blackcats itself?

We would know they r HM the same way Pakistan army knows every man they kill is a TTP militant.

BTW "conspiracy theories r the hallmark of interweb losers" - Sparklingway



@ Irfan:

As long as they carry the blue back passport with 3 golden lions embossed on it, they r Indian citizens......
U and me arguing on an online forum doesn't change that a bit.

 

[KS]

lets meet up and take advantage of that together
I will really like to go and see in person those miserable call centre guys and gals in banglore that get shouted, insulted and swore at day and night by the people in the west.

With all respect.....what u mentioned is any day better than young men brandishing AK s in public rallies or strapping suicide vests around their bodies and blowing themselves up in public places.

BTW I didn't expect this from a respected Think tank.

 

[Peshwa]

The Kashmiri leaders are native Kashmiris whereas MQM people are not natives. hell of a difference between the two.

First problem I see with Pakistanis in general is their tendency to brand people based on their own flawed perspectives......

The fact is, MQM and its leaders are as Pakistani as anyone....
To call them outsiders is an insult to not only the concept of Pakistan but to its founder as well....

If the founding fathers of your country are Pakistani....then so are the MQM leaders

Kashmiris do have reasons for playing power game in their own country whereas MQM people are outsiders who have occupied karachi.

Uh....so you're fine with Kashmiri leaders hurting the cause of their own people as long as they tow your line?

Besides....who are you to call MQM outsiders? So are you of the opinion that if your forefathers werent from the region....then you have no say in things there?

You sound exactly like the parties in India you most criticize.....namely Shiv Sena!

As far as Kashmiri leaders' sphere of influence if that is in your view is very limited or a small section of Kashmiris then it should be a win win situation for India by holding a referendum under UN.
You will solve it once for all

We dont have to make symbolic gestures to anyone to appease Pakistanis or Kashmiris.....or prove a point

India cannot and will not allow an integral part of its terrirtory to be broken away just because some people huff and puff and have sucidal tendencies

It starts with.....Kashmir is part of India...and ends there....

We dont even need to argue about what the Kashmiris choose more.....India, Pak or Freedom......

If Kashmiris demand development, opportunity, security....by all means they have the right to demand it....and we are all for it!

If its seperation from India they seek....then they probably shouldnt hold their breath....

B

 

[justanobserver]

Originally Posted by Jana
The Kashmiri leaders are native Kashmiris whereas MQM people are not natives. hell of a difference between the two.

Originally Posted by Jana
Kashmiris do have reasons for playing power game in their own country whereas MQM people are outsiders who have occupied karachi.

Pakistan was supposed to be the homeland for the subcontinental Muslims right?

What you've said clearly refutes the very idea of Pakistan

 

[Peshwa]

True; Seperation from India is a distant dream for now..But this is not because of peacefulness in Kashmir. It is because Pakistan screwed it up and Indians played smart. Unfortunate Kashmirs will have to suffer.

Kashmiris have to suffer because India's neighbors are using Kashmir and its leaders as a tool to achieve their objective....which involves some native Kashmiris as well as other Pakistanis (Non-Kashmiris)

Do remember that India did not send in armies until cross border terrorism was initiated in 89......
For some odd reason, the idea being prophesized on this forum is that Kashmir has always been a militarized zone....

I would also ask you to check historical facts which prove that Indian actions have been reactionary to the violence stemming from accross our borders

 

[Xeric]

We would know they r HM the same way Pakistan army knows every man they kill is a TTP militant.

That's the stupidest thing i have seen around this forum lately.

TTP militants claim responsibility when they blow up themselves.

The entire world recognize them as international terrorists.

They have been declared as terrorists by the international community and they dont get much bothered by it.

Their presence is RECOGNIZED inside the area bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan by the entire world.

We (and the world in general) are at open war with them, with a very very very clear line to as who is the guud guy and who is not.

etc
etc
&
etc

Let's see how many could you sum up as regards to HM. But before that i would like you to tell us even if HM do operate against the indian aggressors (expect you quoting some 'dot IN' link). Or may be you are still disillusioned and couldnt differentiate between a kid with stones and a bearded animal in shalwar kameez holding an AK!

BTW "conspiracy theories r the hallmark of interweb losers" - Sparklingway

He got that right

BTW, he's a great poster and has the quality to search out losers amongst winners!

@ Irfan:

As long as they carry the blue back passport with 3 golden lions embossed on it, they r Indian citizens......
U and me arguing on an online forum doesn't change that a bit.

Like i said:

Beware people, tomorrow india may call zombies as their citizens and it gets even better; she may tell you that some XYZ singh is your father just because she wants to establish some kinship with you!

Man i love the 'conjunctive' nature of indian constitution!

 

[Peshwa]

I very well know the demography of Kashmir. Since Indians are confident enough that those who want their country back are few in numbers and those who want to remain under Indian invasion there for I repeat Again then "Why India is afraid of holding a referendum under foreign bodies in Kashmir"


Do hold one and if all those Sikh, Budhist, Hindu, Muslim Kashmiris want to join India then i have NO objection.

Why does Referendum even come into the picture...?

Holding a referendum indicates we doubt the integration of Kashmir to India.....
We Indians will not alienate our own people....Kashmiris are Indians....

Thats the Indian view of things.....other views including those seperatist Kashmiri hold very little weight in our books..

 

[Spring Onion]

Here Guys i came across this article by Indians posted at their forum.

Here the writer and the Indians are saying that 45% In Indian Held Kashmir are NOT Kashmiris ))))) so demand for Freedom for Kashmiris is unjustified.

Though i have found this writer a total moron who does not know a difference between religion and ethnicity. And by his own claims it is proven that the population which India had been presented as Pro-India does not belong to Kashmir.

So they must be expelled from Kashmir


here is the link to entire article and some parts posted bellow

The Pioneer :: Home : >> Not all in JK are Kashmiris

Let us not forget 45 per cent of the people of Jammu & Kashmir are Dogras, Punjabis, Paharis, Bakarwals, Gujjars, Buddhists and Shias

There has been a basic flaw in New Delhi’s approach to an ‘internal dialogue’ with people in the multi-ethnic, multi-lingual and multi-religious State of Jammu & Kashmir. This ‘internal dialogue’ has been almost exclusively with the leadership of the All-Party Hurriyat Conference based in the Kashmir Valley. This, despite the fact that roughly 45 per cent of the people of Jammu & Kashmir are not ‘Kashmiris’ who live in the Kashmir Valley, but are Dogras, Punjabis, Paharis, Bakarwals, Gujjars, Buddhist Ladakhis and Balti Shias in Kargil.

Paradoxically, the Kashmir Valley where one now hears calls for ‘azadi’ was ruled ruthlessly for over 700 years by Mongols, Afghans, Mughals, Sikhs and Dogras before people experienced democracy and freedom under India’s Constitution.

The Pioneer :: Home : >> Not all in JK are Kashmiris

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Infact India's position will only harden as time passes - You seem to be missing this simple fact.

as will that of the occupied Kashmiris' as is clearly evident!


been following the news lately?

 

[JanjaWeed]

You came up with silly reply again nevermind


If they are Indians then they are occupiers so expelled them from Occupied Kashmir.

I would like to see in this case Fighters should kick these Indians out of Kashmir

why is it silly? ofcourse i believe they are indians & for that matter every indian in this forum would say the same. c'mon.. when it comes to kashmir our two nations & people are poles apart in their point of views. for you it's occupied kashmir & for us it's just kashmir.

for you it's the fighters & for us it's the militants.

do you really think we would agree on anything when it comes to kashmir??

 

[Spring Onion]

why is it silly? ofcourse i believe they are indians & for that matter every indian in this forum would say the same. c'mon.. when it comes to kashmir our two nations & people are poles apart in their point of views. for you it's occupied kashmir & for us it's just kashmir.

for you it's the fighters & for us it's the militants.

do you really think we would agree on anything when it comes to kashmir??

I really dont care who you consider what.

The reality is Paharis, Bakarwals, Gujjars are ethnic Kashmiris whom your learned Indian has tried to portrayed as Non-Kashmiri.


He also called shias in Kashmir as non-Kashmiris lolzzz its a faith and not ethnicity. He should learn basics


Now coming to Dogras, Sikhs and Budhists, Hindus in Kashmir hmmmmm now here we can look at it and by his own logic if they are not Kashmiris then they are outsiders who are occupying Kashmiri land.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A plebiscite would involve all residents of the former Princely State of J&K, so it is rather absurd to argue that the residents of the Kashmir valley alone would determine the future of the disputed territory.

 

[Hulk]

The point is out of total region on J&K including Pakistan and China less than 20% is asking for Plebiscit (When you take a 20000 feet view). So how justified is that?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The point is out of total region on J&K including Pakistan and China less than 20% is asking for Plebiscit (When you take a 20000 feet view). So how justified is that?

Without an impartial and neutral entity to properly record everyone's opinion on the issue of plebiscite, how can you argue that only 20% of the residents of IoK, G-B and AK desire a UN held plebiscite?