Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Kashmiri Separatists Refuse to Meet Indian Delegation​

SRINAGAR: An all-party group of Indian lawmakers visited violence-wracked Kashmir on Monday but key local leaders refused to meet them and said New Delhi had no answers to the region's crisis.

More than 100 civilians have been killed in three months of clashes that have pitched stone-throwing protesters against the security forces, who have frequently opened fire with live ammunition.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh held an emergency all-party meeting last week, which decided to send the 37-member delegation to Kashmir to talk to local politicians and business groups in an effort to ease tensions.

It is the first time that ministers or mainstream political leaders have visited the region since the demonstrations began in June.

But hopes that the visit could break the cycle of violence were undermined by the decision of Kashmiri separatist leaders to reject the offer of face-to-face talks.

Syed Ali Geelani, the veteran separatist who has organised the almost daily demonstrations throughout the summer, rejected any meeting, saying nothing positive could emerge from it.

Other separatists Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik also declined to meet with the all-party delegation, their supporters told reporters on Monday morning.

“It is a farce that they come here, saying they are assessing the situation, when everyone knows that innocents are being killed and the curfews have turned much of Kashmir into a jail,” Farooq told AFP.

“We can not support these half-hearted gestures that are just to make the government look as if they are serious.”

Mehbooba Mufti, leader of the state government opposition, said she would send party members to the talks at a conference centre in Srinagar, but would not attend herself.

“They know my views, and we have not changed any policy,” she said, adding that a strict curfew across Kashmir should be lifted immediately.

The delegation from New Delhi, led by Home Minister P. Chidambaram, also planned to meet representatives of the struggling tourism industry and other businesses, according to officials.

“We have to talk to each other. And those who have grievances against the government have to talk to the administration,” Prime Minister Singh said last week.

But solutions to the unrest in Kashmir, home to a 20-year insurgency against Indian rule, appear as distant as ever, with public resentment hardening with each civilian death.

Delegates did not speak to the media early Monday, but Pawan Kumar Bansal of the ruling Congress party said Sunday that they would be getting “direct feedback from the ground”.

“I will not raise the expectations. It is part of a long-drawn process which we have to carry out,” he said.

Among the delegates was Arun Jaitley, a senior figure in the main Hindu nationalist BJP opposition, which opposes making any security or political concessions to separatists.

In the wave of rallies that began on June 11, paramilitary troops have regularly opened fire after coming under attack from anti-India protesters throwing rocks and stones.

Many of those killed have been young men or teenagers, and news of each death has brought more people on to the streets and led to further deadly clashes with the security forces.

Police said a 22-year-old woman bystander was killed during protests on Sunday evening in the northern town of Sopore, bringing the number of civilians to have died to 106.

Curfews and strikes have shut down Srinagar and many other towns for weeks at a time, with residents complaining of shortages of food and essential medicine.

Kashmir, a beautiful mountainous region in the Himalayan foothills, has been a regular flashpoint between India and Pakistan since the partition of the subcontinent in 1947.

The two rival nations fought wars over Kashmir in 1947-8, leaving it divided between Indian and Pakistani sectors, and again in 1965.

DAWN.COM | World | Kashmiri separatists refuse to meet Indian delegation

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Kashmiri Separatists Refuse to Meet Indian Delegation​

SRINAGAR: An all-party group of Indian lawmakers visited violence-wracked Kashmir on Monday but key local leaders refused to meet them and said New Delhi had no answers to the region's crisis.

More than 100 civilians have been killed in three months of clashes that have pitched stone-throwing protesters against the security forces, who have frequently opened fire with live ammunition.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh held an emergency all-party meeting last week, which decided to send the 37-member delegation to Kashmir to talk to local politicians and business groups in an effort to ease tensions.

It is the first time that ministers or mainstream political leaders have visited the region since the demonstrations began in June.

But hopes that the visit could break the cycle of violence were undermined by the decision of Kashmiri separatist leaders to reject the offer of face-to-face talks.

Syed Ali Geelani, the veteran separatist who has organised the almost daily demonstrations throughout the summer, rejected any meeting, saying nothing positive could emerge from it.

Other separatists Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and Yasin Malik also declined to meet with the all-party delegation, their supporters told reporters on Monday morning.

“It is a farce that they come here, saying they are assessing the situation, when everyone knows that innocents are being killed and the curfews have turned much of Kashmir into a jail,” Farooq told AFP.

“We can not support these half-hearted gestures that are just to make the government look as if they are serious.”

Mehbooba Mufti, leader of the state government opposition, said she would send party members to the talks at a conference centre in Srinagar, but would not attend herself.

“They know my views, and we have not changed any policy,” she said, adding that a strict curfew across Kashmir should be lifted immediately.

The delegation from New Delhi, led by Home Minister P. Chidambaram, also planned to meet representatives of the struggling tourism industry and other businesses, according to officials.

“We have to talk to each other. And those who have grievances against the government have to talk to the administration,” Prime Minister Singh said last week.

But solutions to the unrest in Kashmir, home to a 20-year insurgency against Indian rule, appear as distant as ever, with public resentment hardening with each civilian death.

Delegates did not speak to the media early Monday, but Pawan Kumar Bansal of the ruling Congress party said Sunday that they would be getting “direct feedback from the ground”.

“I will not raise the expectations. It is part of a long-drawn process which we have to carry out,” he said.

Among the delegates was Arun Jaitley, a senior figure in the main Hindu nationalist BJP opposition, which opposes making any security or political concessions to separatists.

In the wave of rallies that began on June 11, paramilitary troops have regularly opened fire after coming under attack from anti-India protesters throwing rocks and stones.

Many of those killed have been young men or teenagers, and news of each death has brought more people on to the streets and led to further deadly clashes with the security forces.

Police said a 22-year-old woman bystander was killed during protests on Sunday evening in the northern town of Sopore, bringing the number of civilians to have died to 106.

Curfews and strikes have shut down Srinagar and many other towns for weeks at a time, with residents complaining of shortages of food and essential medicine.

Kashmir, a beautiful mountainous region in the Himalayan foothills, has been a regular flashpoint between India and Pakistan since the partition of the subcontinent in 1947.

The two rival nations fought wars over Kashmir in 1947-8, leaving it divided between Indian and Pakistani sectors, and again in 1965.

DAWN.COM | World | Kashmiri separatists refuse to meet Indian delegation

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Are they done stoning that woman?

according at least to Iranian President, orders for the stoning never took place; dont know why he would renege on that promise

silly to bring that up here, no?

 

[karan.1970]

Iran expresses concern over Kashmir crackdown
Tehran Times Political Desk


TEHRAN -- Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast has expressed concern over the crackdown in Indian-administered Kashmir, in which a number of Muslims have been killed.


Cracking down on the protests will only increase Muslims’ anger, Mehmanparast said on Saturday.

Thousands of people staged massive demonstrations in several districts of Kashmir on Thursday to voice their anger over the desecration of the Quran in the United States.

Fourteen Kashmiri Muslims and an Indian police officer were killed during the protests.

Terry Jones, the pastor of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center church, had intended to set the Quran on fire on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States but cancelled his plan due to international pressure and criticism.

However, a copy of the Quran was burned by a U.S. citizen on September 12.

Since then, millions of Muslims have taken to the streets across the world to denounce the desecration of the Quran.


tehran times : Iran expresses concern over Kashmir crackdown

I was trying to find a reference to slamming or condemning by Iran but couldnt. Can you point that out for me, or did you just named the thread on your whim...

I dont know how this escaped the attention of the mods when the titles are changed even when those are copied verbatim from news articles because of lack of evidence.

 

[KS]

First:

Palestine - UN recognised right to indpendence,Kashmir - Un doesnt recognise independence

Palestine - Did any ruler formally accede to Israel - NO ; Kashmir - the Maharaja formally signed the instrument of accession to make it a part of India.

Palestine - are the Palestinians chased out from Palestine- yes ; Kashmir - are the Kashmiris chased outfrom Kashmir - no (if the Hindus/Sikhs/Jains qualify as "Kashmiris" then maybe Yes)

Palestine - is their territory being occupied by settlers - yes : Kashmir - is territory being occupied by Hindu settlers from rest of India - NO

Palestine - do Tanks ,bulldozers regularly demolish homes,buildings - YES ; Kashmir - Have Tanks even come once inside SriNagar - NO

Palestine - Do attack Helicopters regularly fire missiles at anything moving - YES ; Kashmir - Does that thing happen here - NO

Palestine - IS any HAMAS leader safe from MOSSAD - NO ; Kashmir - IS any hair on the head of a separatist leader harmed - NO .Infact they are given treatment at the taxpayers expense in Delhi and Mumbai


Palestine - Do the Israeli police calmly bear all the stones thrown on them - NO ; Kashmir - Poor CRPF not even allowed to fire and given only a lathi in hand.

Palestine - IS there a shortage of basic materials - YES ; Kashmir - one of the least poor states in India with annual assitance going into thousands of crores.

Palestine - IS there any blockade of essential supplies in place - YES ; Kashmir - NO[/B]

But what the world is never told by The New York Times, nor by most other supposedly liberal organs, is that New Delhi’s response to such civil disobedience has been far more savage and brutal than anything authorized in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv,

so basically the quoted part goes down the drain.

Second:

Isn't this the same Israel that indians praise so much? Accordingly all indians should respect this article and praise the author.

Indians praise Israel,not some lonely figure sitting in Ireland pretending to be a columnist.

Thirdly:

People may be killed like poultry in Kashmir, as in Tibet, but even “progressive” Western politicians are too chicken to jeopardize their countries’rapidly expanding commercial connections with either India or China.

The thread starter forgot to bold these particular words.So now what happens to the deeper than ocean friendship.?

 

[mattoo]

In short you will get nothing, because in reality we stand nothing to gain from this the only reason we have chosen to stick with Kashmir is because the people EXPECT us to.

Thank you for being honest and confessing that Pakistan can offer absolutely NOTHING (your words) to any Kashmiri who is not a particular type (Sunni) of muslim.

Ergo, if I were to become a Pakistani citizen, I can expect to become a second-class citizen.

How can we turn a blind eye towards them ?

The problem is in your eye - it only seems to see Sunni muslims. You yourself said that you cannot offer anything to Kashmiris like me who are either Hindus, Sikhs, Bakarwals, Gujjars or Shias. Your eye has no problem with the Tibet issue however.

By your own admission, you Pakistanis are just being opportunitic and have no moral base to advice anyone on anything.

P.S. If Kashmir does become a part of Pakistan, the "Hurriyat Types" will probably stop pestering you.

The Hurriyat Goons have raped and murdered many many Pandits. That is just another "pestilence" to you. Wow.

Any other Pakistanis here want to take another shot at my question?

I am a Hindu Pandit from Baramulla. Why should I support Pakistan. If I were to become Pakistani, what practical benefits will flow to me in terms of life, opportunities etc. I still have an open mind.

 

[rsingh]

In Kashmir Indian army and the Indian state is committing atrocities against Muslim this is what this article wants to say.
If 700,000 soldiers are posted in Kashmir then how come the Kashmiri Pandits had to fled Kashmir.
First tell me does Israel give any economic aid to Gaza.- J&K has been receiving 8 times more grant money on per capita basis compared to other Indian states.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

amazing how Sunni-Shiia is being brought up here.

as if Pakistan were the villain and targetting one over the other. It seems that the predominantly Muslim protestors in predominantly Muslim Kashmir see no discrimination of bullets; there was a Shiia procession that was violently quelled by indian army as well

maybe you forgot


DAWN.COM | World | Sixty injured as Indian police stop Kashmiri Shia procession



Mattoo -- previously you were ''Kashmiri Pandit'' and you were banned. You know it, and so do I. Please stop repeatedly making usernames in order to troll here. There is a reason why you were banned in the first place.

 

[deckingraj]

Intervention to stop the fighting in Kashmir, we are in noway asking for international community to put diplomatic pressure on India to free Kashmir.

Sorry buddy but seems you are bit misinformed on this particular issue....Pakistan has repeatedly said for international community to intervene and help resolve the Kashmir issue...No one can put siplomatic pressure on India to free Kashmir and neither can pakistan ask for it....All they can ask is for international community to intervene and help resolve the issue....which is exact contradiction to GOI stand where she consider it as pure bilateral issue and don't want any third party role....Let's agree atleast on some very easy hard core facts, shall we???

A referendum was held and we acknowledge that according to the UN GB is still a disputed region and the region will be available for plebiscite whenever the time is right.

Good to know that you consider Gilgit still part of J&K...My interactions with scores of senior Pakistani members includins mods gives a different picture...B/W i did not know that a rerendum was held there...Can yo u please share some links on it...Also was a similar refremdum held in P-O-K??? if not why??? Since you yourself said that Pakistan do consider Gilgit as part of J&K then why to separate out gilgit in the very first place??

Nothing is impossible !

Easy said then done...whenever i said it is next to possible I always maintained that it is so complex that it's not feasible in today's world...since we will not be able to achieve a situation where we can have plebiscite which is free and FAIR to all the three parties i.e. India, Pak, People of J&K....

 

[StingRoy]

Hindustan Times is reporting that some senior members of the parliamentary committee did meet the leaders separately. Hopefully we will see some constructive measures from these dialogues.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Accept-J-amp-K-as-disputed-territory-for-talks-Geelani/H1-Article1-602578.aspx

In a bid to break the current impasse, teams of the all-party delegation to Kashmir on Monday separately met Hurriyat leaders and gave them a patient hearing but the separatists insisted on withdrawal of army and asked the Centre to take bold decisions instead of being in a 'denial mode'.

Chairman of hardline faction of Hurriyat Conference Syed Ali Shah Geelani demanded that Jammu and Kashmir should be accepted as a 'disputed' territory as a pre-condition for starting the dialogue process with the Centre.

Interacting with five-members of the all party delegation which called on him at his Hyderpora residence in Srinagar, Geelani suggested that Parliament should constitute a committee to go into all the issues faced by Kashmiri people.

"We have given five-points for starting the dialogue process for resolution of Kashmir issue which includes accepting Jammu and Kashmir as a disputed territory," Geelani told the team led by CPI(M) leader Sitaram Yechury.

Among the other conditions laid down by the hardline leader include initiation of complete demilitarisation of the state, commitment from the Prime Minister to put an end to the killings and arrests of youths, unconditional release of all political prisoners and withdrawal of cases against youths.

He has also sought arrest and prosecution of security personnel allegedly responsible for killing of youths during the ongoing unrest.

During the interaction, which was held in full media glare, the hardline leader said the people of Kashmir were only demanding right to self-determination as promised by the leaders of the country from time to time.

"The Indian troops have no justification -- moral or legal - to occupy Jammu and Kashmir. We are not demanding secession of any legal part of India but only our right to self-determination," he said.

Yechury told Geelani that the delegation had come to convey their sympathies with the people of the Valley and for initiating a process to resolve the problem.

"It is necessary that peace should prevail in the Valley. Then we can discuss the disputes and issues," he said.

Lok Sabha MP Assadudin Owaisi also pleaded with Geelani to give peace a chance. The other members of the delegation included Ratan Singh Ajnala (Akali Dal), T R Balu (DMK) and Namo Nageshwara Rao (TDP).

Although the hardline faction of Hurriyat had rejected the invitation to meet the all party delegation, Geelani had said he would not turn away anyone from his door as it was not in line with the Kashmiri ethos and Islamic Traditions.

Moderate Hurriyat Conference chairman Mirwaiz Umer Farooq said Parliament should pass a resolution to put an end to the killings in Kashmir and for initiating a sustained dialogue process for resolution of the long pending issue.

Interacting with another all-party team at his Nigeen residence here, Mirwaiz told them the time had come for Parliament of India to take bold decisions with regard to Kashmir issue as the Centre has been in a constant state of denial mode.

 

[hecj]

Five-member team meets Geelani

they had a meeting

 

[mattoo]

Mattoo -- previously you were ''Kashmiri Pandit'' and you were banned.

I seriously do not know who you are talking about since I have never posted here before. You may PM me and I'll be happy to put your doubts to rest.

Also, Abu, please note that my question remains unanswered.

It is my assertion that Pakistan has nothing to offer non-muslim Kashmiris like myself. If this is not the case, please let me know how my life will be better as a Pakistani citizen.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I seriously do not know who you are talking about since I have never posted here before. You may PM me and I'll be happy to put your doubts to rest.

Also, Abu, please note that my question remains unanswered.

It is my assertion that Pakistan has nothing to offer non-muslim Kashmiris like myself. If this is not the case, please let me know how my life will be better as a Pakistani citizen.

we had a troll here just a few days back, claiming to be a hindu pandit from Kashmir. Do pardon me if I am incorrect. I get suspicious over such things, internet is never fool proof.

as for your question ---you may notice that I never suggested anything explicitly over Kashmiri ownership.

I was more in line with Pakistan Nation's official stance that Kashmir is disputed territory and must be treated thusly.

the fate of Kashmir should lie with the people of Kashmir ---namely the ones RESIDING in Kashmir

 

[TextMiner]

amazing how Sunni-Shiia is being brought up here.

as if Pakistan were the villain and targetting one over the other. It seems that the predominantly Muslim protestors in predominantly Muslim Kashmir see no discrimination of bullets; there was a Shiia procession that was violently quelled by indian army as well

The Shia-Sunni clashes are a perennial problem, whether in Kurram, Pakistan or in Baramulla, Kashmir.

And while, Shias are killed by the Indian army, the same Shias whom you mourn also send their men to join the Indian Army, who get killed by the very proxies of your country. Don't believe me, well read on here.

The funeral north of Srinagar in Indian-administered Kashmir was just like those of countless others who have died violently over the past 20 years.

A Muslim killed in the insurgency was laid to rest in his ancestral graveyard in the village of Dub, north of Srinagar, on Tuesday, surrounded by thousands of mourners.

What made the ceremony unusual was that this was no militant who had died fighting the Indian army.

This was a Kashmiri who served with the Indian army and died fighting the militants.

Shabir Ahmed Malik was among eight Indian soldiers killed in a gun battle earlier this week with separatist militants in Kupwara.



'Pained'

Over the past two decades, hundreds of Kashmiris have died while fighting for India.

Indian army and police officers carry the coffin of Shabir Ahmed Malik
Mr Malik was a dedicated soldier of the Indian army

Among them are police officials and Ikhwanis, or "renegade" militants who have been persuaded or coerced - depending on who you believe - to abandon militancy and instead work for the Indian security forces. Most Ikhwanis were or are pariahs.

But Shabir, 21, joined the Indian army after passing his 12th class examination. He studied at the Sainik (army) School at Ganderbal.

Shabir's family and neighbours are proud of his army service.

"He has become a hero. He died an honourable death. I am so happy, although I am also pained at his separation," says Mohammad Yasin, a neighbour and friend of the dead man.

Mr Yasin says he still regrets not being able to join the Indian army with Shabir.

"I too went with him that day. But only three boys were selected. I was not taken because I was over age. I still feel so bad about it.

"Even now, I have a passionate desire to do something for my country like Shabir has done."

Mr Yasin says that the moving send-off given to Shabir has inspired many more youths in the village to join the army.

'Fulfilled'

"I am 28," says Showkat Ahmed. "I have never in my life seen such a funeral. Such death is pride-worthy."

Mourners at Shabir Ahmed Malik's funeral
Mr Malik's village showed huge pride in his army service

Such well-attended funerals are usually the preserve of militants killed by Indian troops.

Shabir's body was kept outside the "imambara" (Shia place of worship) and the villagers mourned beside it.

They beat their chests but unlike at the funerals of militants there was no slogan shouting.

The fact the villagers are minority Shia may in part explain their pro-India loyalties. Kashmir's insurgency over the past two decades has mostly been waged by Sunni militants.

Part of the Shia community has stayed away from the separatist campaign, although some leaders of the separatist movement do belong to the Shias.

The coffin was draped in India's tricolour before it was carried to the graveyard.

Shabir's brother, Ghiulam Mohammad, says: "I wanted him to become a doctor. But he had a passion for joining the army and was determined to complete his graduation so he could become an army officer.

"He was patriotic from his childhood. He wanted to do something for his country. His ambition has been fulfilled."

The villagers have been sharing the family's grief as well as its pride in what Shabir fought for.

"Every family here is bereaved. Every family is mourning," one villager said.

Now this is what i call ironic ; U hail from a country who kills the very people whom you want a part to be. Pakistan, since its genesis, has been targeting, one community/ethnicity after the other, whether it be Ahmediyas, Shias, Mohajirs or even Balochis. No wonder, the West does not want Kashmir to be independent, as they fear it might turn into another lawless FATA.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The Shia-Sunni clashes are a perennial problem, whether in Kurram, Pakistan or in Baramulla, Kashmir.

not a problem in the sense that there is outwardly a struggle of some kind between Shiias and Sunnis. Majority of Pakistanis don't think on sectarian prism; only a small minority do.

By the way, I hail from Kurram. Most of the disputes are tribal, though they later on -through stoked up emotions -take on sectarian dimension (mostly due to meddling and brainwashing from the enemies of Pakistani unity) -much of it from non-state elements and troublesome ''stakeholders'' in Afghanistan which is merely 8-10 km away

Now this is what i call ironic ; U hail from a country who kills the very people whom you want a part to be. Pakistan, since its genesis, has been targeting, one community/ethnicity after the other, whether it be Ahmediyas, Shias, Mohajirs or even Balochis. No wonder, the West does not want Kashmir to be independent, as they fear it might turn into another lawless FATA.

what a preposterous, loosely-worded and factually incorrect statement. I wont even reply to such garbage.

As for Kashmir, little is talked about because the conflict is given not enough exposure or coverage to the world......now that violence is again spiralling out of control (worst since 1989) I think more and more people would be informed

through the recommendations I listed earlier, Pakistan can play an instrumental role in highlighting the crisis in occupied Kashmir....as it is a disputed territory between Pakistan and hindustan --it basically goes down to the ''my word versus yours'' approach.