deckingraj
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I have replied to that post as well...I chopped because there is certain aspects which is b/w you and poster whom you were replying...However i will keep it in mind next time....I just gave you the answer in the post. It helps if you read the entire thing, instead of chopping it up.
I don't want to repeat the same thing again and again....Being an Indian and following Kashmir politics from quite some time i can tell there is more definitions out there as well, for example - Being under Indian Rule, Being under Indian rule with greater Autonomy etc etc....I do agree that people especially in valley wants to decide on their own through plebiscite however there are scores of people who don't.....'Azadi' means the 'Azadi to determine their future', whether as part of Pakistan, India or independent.
I can see you are more inclined of dividing state of Jammu and Kashmir. something which is unacceptable even to scores of separatist who are part of these stone pelting demonstrations....So i am not sure how you are assuming that this formulae will be acceptable to people of Jammu and Kashmir???It says that the Kashmiris are primarily leading the cause, and that the solution perhaps lies in a regional or district wise plebiscite, or something like the Chenab formula.
The people of Kashmir were never asked whether they wanted to be part of the Indian State, and therefore until they are allowed to vote in a plebiscite, they do not have the right to determine their future. I am unaware of which part of India you are from, but perhaps the people of your State did indeed in some way support Gandhi and Nehru's creation of India in 1947.
I am a sikh and from Punjab....I have repeatedly explained why plebiscite is complex and thinking that it can be carried out in today's world is just wishful thinking...
As far as Kashmiri's are concerned then people of Pakistan did not get a chance to choose if they want to be part of Pakistan or India, same is true with people of Bangladesh....Both My grandfather's are from Rawalpindi and they loved that place like anything, I remember them telling me stories about how beautiful lahore is even during heights of tentions b/w India and Pakistan...As far as i know they did not get a chance to decide where they want to stay via plebiscite....What do you want to say about that???? Scores of Muslims, Hindu's and Sikhs from across the country were not in favor of partition but it did happen and without any plebiscite...May i know why???? Rulers representing those people took decisions on their behalf and legalized the partition....In the same context ruler of Jammu and Kashmir legalized merger with India....Since there were conflicts on the Maharaja acceding J&K with India our PM promised a plebiscite however there were certain conditions which were not met(who is responsible i don't want to dwell on it)...Now ground reality has changed and plebiscite is not possible...Sooner people realize better it is for everybody....In short like people across Indian sub continent did not get a chance to decide where they want to stay the same way Kashmiri's did/will not get a chance to decide whom they want to stay with....Has India and Pak sticked to what was decided after 47 war Kashmiri's would have got that chance, now it is simply not possible...
Look Agno we can keep on showing lot of historic documents to each other, just to prove who is more right then other...However the best thing that can happen to this region is if people accept the ground realities....
Again you are just talking about people in Valley....and no they are not united on this...It is amazing you consider to go for majority of people decision in valley but do not want to consider majority of people in state of Jammu and Kashmir....And they are united in demanding the right to choose their destiny, what they end up choosing we will only know when a plebiscite is held. But once they have exercised that right, they will at least know that they were asked, and the majority chose a particular direction.
Yes i do, however do you realize this??? We came very close to the solving Kashmir but then what happened??? Surely political unstability in Pak is not India's fault, right??? This issue was the deal breaker....It is obvious GOI cannot go for a solution unless and until there is political stability in Pak and then mother of all terrorist attack and the whole dilly-dallying saga on top of it....Again, it is not Pakistan that has refused to return to the point we left off at. You do realize that at this point India and Pakistan could have very well been at an advanced stage of implementing these proposals, and reducing their respective militaries at the borders, instead of dealing with dozens dead and massive protests.
that was sweet...One of the Long standing demand of people of J&K is to have one state and not separate provinces....Anyways can you please share some plebiscite information on G&B?? Also was Rest of Kashmiri's POV considered???A long standing demand of the people of G-B could be implemented at it be finally integrated into Pakistan as its fifth province.
Not sure what you mean by that...can you please elaborate a bit more on this???Of course that would also mean that Indians would have to be called out on their canard of 'its in the Indian constitution and therefore there can be no plebiscite', since the Indian constitution refers to territories held by Pakistan and China, and it will have to be amended to reflect that reality.