Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Leviza]

Kashmir is an integral part of India. It cannot be negotiated at any cost. I donot think anybody participating in any anti-national activities can be termed inncocent. Keepup the great work Indian Army.

i think you need to go and learn history from start.... Kashmir is a disputed land and its not a integral part of india ..... its a lie.....

Kashmir is on UN table and and its inda who took kashmir matter to UNO if you know.... Kashmir is of kashmiries....India captured Kashmir and if indian army didnt left kashmir again this new generation will take the matter in their hand and soon this innocent killings and people of kashmir will take guns in thier hands so be afraid of that day..

The day Kashmiries have guns in thier hand india will start saying Pakistan did that but the reality is different... ball is in india's court ...

 

[Evil Flare]

Kashmir is an integral part of India. It cannot be negotiated at any cost. I donot think anybody participating in any anti-national activities can be termed inncocent. Keepup the great work Indian Army.

Not Its not ...

Its belongs to the people of Jammu & Kashmir ..
Its a Disputed Area Under UN & the people of Jammu & Kashmir have to right to decide for their future ....

India is just an occupying force & no one care what India says integral part & bla bla bla

 

[Je suis de retour]

i think you need to go and learn history from start.... Kashmir is a disputed land and its not a integral part of india ..... its a lie.....

Kashmir is on UN table and and its inda who took kashmir matter to UNO if you know.... Kashmir is of kashmiries....India captured Kashmir and if indian army didnt left kashmir again this new generation will take the matter in their hand and soon this innocent killings and people of kashmir will take guns in thier hands so be afraid of that day..

The day Kashmiries have guns in thier hand india will start saying Pakistan did that but the reality is different... ball is in india's court ...

Thats half of history and that too wrong
Pakistan captured kashmir from ruler.( It had neither consent of kashmiri people nor that of king to come)
Where as, india came on request of king (that is it didnt captured )
So there are fine fine points in history which clears the story or ends up like the case you showed.

 

[Patrician]

self-deleted

 

[T-Faz]

Debate rationally and do not insult others.

Title changed to original title of article.

 

[Areesh]

Three dead in new Kashmir unrest
September 15, 2010 - 7:34PM
AFP

Violence spread to new areas of Indian Kashmir on Wednesday, with three more protesters shot dead by police, as the government held crisis talks in New Delhi to tackle the escalating unrest.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was "shocked and distressed" by the demonstrations engulfing the disputed Himalayan area, where 18 people died on Monday in the bloodiest day in three months of protests.

On Wednesday, police opened fire on a rally in the previously quiet town of Mendhar, a Muslim settlement in a Hindu-dominated area in the south of the region, about 210km from the town of Jammu.

"As the situation went out of control, police opened fire to disperse the mob in which three protesters were killed and at least 25 others were injured," said a police spokesman in Jammu, asking not to be named.

For three months, young Kashmiris have thrown stones at security forces, defied strict curfews and held anti-India rallies, resulting in clashes that have now left 91 people dead.

But since the weekend, the violence has risen in intensity, with mob attacks and arson taking place, apparently fuelled by reports about the desecration of the Koran by a small group of Christians in Washington on Saturday.

Police in Jammu said the crowd had tried to attack a Catholic school in Mendhar.

Speaking at the start of a meeting of all major political parties in New Delhi on Wednesday, Singh said dialogue was the only way out of the crisis but that peace and calm had to be restored first.

"The only path for lasting peace and prosperity in Jammu and Kashmir is that of dialogue and discussion," Singh said.

"Those who have grievances against the government have to talk to the administration," he said. "But it is also true that meaningful dialogue can happen only in an atmosphere free from violence and confrontation."

Singh, who admitted last week that he was "groping" for a response, chaired the all-party meeting at his residence, with the government under pressure to show leadership.

One measure under consideration is the partial withdrawal of a tough military law in the region, which grants the armed forces immunity and is seen as fuelling a sense of injustice for Kashmiris.

The cabinet discussed this at a meeting on Monday, but decided against taking a decision.

Politically, the ruling Congress party is hemmed in by the right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) main opposition group, which sees any concession on autonomy or security as a betrayal of the nation.

A majority of residents in Indian Kashmir favour independence of the Muslim-majority region, according to a poll at the weekend.

The prime minister warned last week that there "is no royal road to success" and that he "can't pull a rabbit out of a hat" in Kashmir, which is part of the northwestern state of Jammu and Kashmir.

Three dead in new Kashmir unrest

 

[Devianz]

Just Bring it

It's usually you guys who start it. So you bring it.

P.S... i dont think Israel gona do any thing.. dont forget the arabs,.

Same goes for China, they will supply some goodies same as what Israel did in Kargil war. They will not get into a direct confrontation with India when they are surrounded by Russia, Japan, SK and of course US. Ohh and not to mention jeopardize all their recent achievements for the sake of Pakistan.

 

[EjazR]

Tangmarg carnage
Police chasing Sofi, Kamal calls for judicial probe
SYED BASHARAT
SRINAGAR, Sep 14: Police has launched a man hunt for a mainstream
political worker Ali Mohammad Sofi alias Ali Kandur who according to
it instigated the mob to set ablaze the government offices at
Tangmarg yesterday.
Meanwhile, ruling National Conference senior leader and MLA, Dr Sheikh Mustafa
Kamal, today demanded a judicial probe into the Tangmarg incident,
terming it a “wider conspiracy”.
According to reliable sources, the police at Tangmarg has registered
an FIR number 91 against Sofi under section 436, 307, 352, 336, 427,
148 and 149 CrPC. The sources said that in view of Sofi’s activities,
police was chasing him just after Eid prayers on September 11. “He had
provoked masses at Baba Reshi mosque on Eid day. Later he addressed
the gathering at Tangmarg bus stand wherein he incited people to go
on rampage,” said a senior police officer pleading anonymity.
Meanwhile, the affiliation of Sofi with mainstream political parties
has started brewing up controversies among the two veteran political
leaders of the area—Ghulam Hassan Mir, the agriculture minister and
the National Conference leader and MLA Dr Sheikh Mustafa Kamal.
Kamal while talking to Kashmir Times demanded a judicial probe into
the Tangmarg incident saying that he smells a *** in the tragedy that
has struck his area. “The reports about Sofi’s affiliation with
National Conference are unfortunate as he left the party in 1990.
I have not seen him even in a single party meeting after 1990. He has
never been with me in any of the elections that I fought after 1990,”
Kamal said.
He added that Sofi was an active member of National Conference in 1977
but for his negative role to defame the party he was imprisoned on the
orders of Sher-e-Kashmir Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, who had earlier
made Sofi a member of District Development Board Baramulla.
“He is reported to have had profitable relationship with some militant
organisations in the area. Besides that he is subtly working with
Ghulam Hassan Mir the agriculture minister while giving impression
that he is from the National Conference. If he was an NC worker, why
would he set ablaze government offices, incite people to go on
rampage? Even I have heard that during the present unrest some people
have been allotted illegal land in Gulmarag where they are on with
some illegal contractions. So that is why the Tehsil building in
Tangmarag was set on fire. I smell a *** in this entire episode,”
Kamal, who is the uncle of Chief Minister Omar Abdullah told Kashmir
Times.
Kamal added that from the media reports about the alleged affiliations
of Sofi with him, some “vested interests” are trying to exploit his
close relation with the Chief Minister to give an impression that
National Conference is internally a divided a lot. “See Ghulam Hassan
Mir has come through proxy. One of his statements that only his
constituency Tangmarag has remained peaceful in the last three months
has invited the attention forces inimical to peace to destroy this
tourist resort. That is what the general impression is. Even my
information is that police resorted to firing on the people and later
allowed them to run riot in order to have some justification for their
unwanted action,” the NC leader observed.
Omar’s uncle while demanding a judicial probe into the incident said
that some vested interests are trying to put NC in bad light and it
could be a wider conspiracy which involves people other than the local
characters.
On the other hand the agriculture minister Ghulam Hassan Mir while
talking to Kashmir Times, admitted that Sofi was working with him but
since his involvement with the formation of Peoples Democratic Party
in 1997-98 Sofi left him and returned to National Conference where he
once held the position of a Block President. “He was working with me
from 1990 t0 1997. Then he returned to NC,” Mir added.
The SHO police station Tangmarg Nisar Ahmad when contacted said that
Sofi has dismal track record. “For the last three days we have been
tracking him. He first incited the people at Baba Reshi mosque on Eid
on September 11. Later he mobilised people from adjoining areas of
Tangmarg and instigated them to go on rampage. We are hunting him and
we may arrest him soon,” said the SHO Tangmarag. When asked about his
association with NC, he said that Sofi has been working with the NC
but had left it some time back.
Meanwhile people in Tangmarg said that Sofi, a resident of Hariwatnoo
Tangamarg (the residence of agriculture minister Ghulam Hassan Mir)
has been associated with Congress, National Conference and Ghulam
Hassan Mir in the past. “He has changed his association with different
political parties from time to time but yesterday, I too was present
in the rally at Tangmarg which turned into a nightmare, Sofi didn’t
utter a word which could have incited people to go berserk and brunt
down government buildings. This is all lie,” said a local from
Tangmarag over phone.
Tangmarag was the worst affected place in valley on yesterday, where
six killings occurred and over 70 others were injured allegedly in
security forces firing when thousands of people raising anti-American
slogans against the desecration of holy Quran tried to march towards
Kunzar Tangmarg to hold demonstration.

 

[RPK]

Four killed, 20 injured in Jammu after Quran protests

 

[EjazR]

www.outlookindia.com | Respect Their Rights
Opinion
Respect Their Rights
The priority should be to convince the Kashmiris of our seriousness in guaranteeing respect for their human rights and dignity.
B. Raman

Reports suggest the anti-US and anti-Christian violence in J&K on September 13, 2010, was triggered off by rumours disseminated by an unlisted and unregistered TV channel of Iran
B. Raman

The situation in Jammu & Kashmir is going from bad to worse. The widespread acts of violence on the Eid day and the outburst on September 13,2010, in the wake of baseless rumours of insult to the Holy Koran in the US make one apprehend that we may reach a point of no return if we do not address the anger of large sections of the youth.Fifteen people, including a member of the security forces, were killed in different incidents on September 13--the largest number in a single day since the present trouble broke out over three months ago.

The anger is a reality. It will be totally unwise to close our eyes and ears to it. It will be suicidal to think that but for instigation by Pakistan the anger might not have acquired such dimensions. The origin of the anger and its gradual escalation were due to mishandling of the situation by the state government and by the confused response of the government of India to the situation as it has developed. Pakistan and the jhadi organisations based there are now exploiting the anger caused by perceptions of our insensitivity to violations of human rights by the security forces. Deaths of some Kashmiris in an alleged false incident involving the security forces and the total inaction of the government in the face of repeated demands for enquiries into the deaths of young Kashmiris due to use of force by the security forces against stone-throwing mobs have led to a resurgence of the alienation of growing sections of the youth.

The incidents of September 13 show two strands of anger. The first is against the governments of J&K and India due to the perceived violations of the human rights of the Kashmiris. The second , which made its first appearance in the incidents of September 13, is directed against the US because of a threat, which had emanated from a pastor with insignificant following to burn the Holy Koran on the anniversary of 9/11. He gave up his threat under political and public pressure in the US, but not before he had provided fresh oxygen to the jihadi elements in the Islamic world.

To what extent the anger of the Kashmiris against the US was spontaneous and to what extent it was insitigated by Al Qaeda and pro-Al Qaeda elements based in the ****** region? It is difficult to answer this question, but one has to note with some concern that the anger against the US seen in the streets of Srinagar on September 13 was part of the pattern one had been seeing in the last few days in the ****** region ever since the pastor issued his threat. We had seen similar anger against the US in the streets of Srinagar when US troops invaded Iraq in 2003. That too was part of an orchestrated pattern seen in different cities of Pakistan. But the anger subsided after a few days. Will it subside similarly now? One has to keep one's fingers crossed. It is important to note and deny promptly and effectively all rumours being disseminated from the ****** region by Al Qaeda, the Talibans and their affiliates regarding insults to Islam.

One should remember there was an escalation in violence in J&K in the days and weeks before the visit of President Bill Clinton to India in April 2000. We should expect a similar escalation in the period before the forthcoming visit of President Barack Obama to India in November.There is a strong possibility that the kind of violence that one has been seeing since the Eid day, which is different from the kind of violence that one had been seeing before Eid would be sought to be kept up till the visit of Mr Obama. The violence before Eid was largely spontaneous. The violence since Eid is increasingly orchestrated and inspired from outside-- inspired not only by the state of Pakistan, but also by all the jihadi organisations based there.

If we had promptly acted against the initial incidents and against those members of the security forces against whom allegations of staging a false encounter had been made, the situation might not have deteriorated to the extent it has. There are now vicious winds of anger and hatred blowing across Kashmir, helped by our failure to understand that we are now facing a different kind of situation in J&K and by our reluctance to act against the members of the security forces against whom allegations of human rights violations were made.

The situation has so badly slipped out of control that one does not know how to retrieve it. Retrieve one must for restoring normalcy in J&K. Even now, the governments of J&K and India give the impression of a total lack of lucidity in analysing and assessing the situation. The Kashmiris are not agitating for jobs. They are not agitating against the Armed Forces Special Powers Act. They are not agitating against the Army. They are not agitating against our counter-terrorism machinery, which had effectively countered Pakistan-sponsored terrorism in the state. They are agitating against the state's law and order machinery for alleged disproportionate use of force against stone-throwing mobs. They are agitating against the government of India for not intervening to protect the human rights and the self-dignity of the Kashmiri Muslims.

The first response of the government of India should have been to ensure respect for the human rights of the Kashmiris. Even now, despite the deterioration in the situation which has made the increasing resort to law and order methods unavoidable, our priority should be to visibly stop violations of human rights. The National Human Rights Commission should be asked to look urgently into the various complaints that have been made and convince the Kashmiris of our seriousness in guaranteeing respect for their human rights and self-dignity.

If we don't do this and keep thinking that we can restore normalcy by creating jobs and by making statements of our willingness for a dialogue, we are in for a nasty surprise in J&K. The credibility of the government of India in J&K is very low. It is seen as a government which only acts under pressure. It is seen as a government which is totally confused.

It has to show it means business--business in restoring law and order; business in respecting the human rights and self-dignity of the Kashmiris and business in preventing Pakistan and its jihadi organisations from exploiting the situation.

 

[Patrician]

But when Kashmiris choose they are still going to choose Pakistan over India.

Moreover, we are also okay with the Kashmiris choosing Independence to form a united Kashmir. As long as they choose on their own, what India gives them is not justice, its imposition of its will.

Which brings us back to the discussion we had in the "Why did Pakistan get 'independence' option removed" thread.

I hope you do remember Asim

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...have-kashmir-independence-option-removed.html

DO TAKE A LOOK

 

[ares]

One question.. Do you think only the kashmir land is yours or that also includes Kashmiries you are killing every day?

Both ways: tum logon ko sharam nai ati

Stop worrying about ppl dying in India, and start worrying about ppl dying in Pakistan, because we are not going to worry for them.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Your post does not raise any questions that have not been answered already. Under the legal framework governing accessions agreed upon between the ML, Congress and the British, there was no consideration given to a nation's ideology. If there had been, then the only States that had a choice of acceding to Pakistan would have been Muslim majority States.

You should be aware that a legal framework in complete agreements of the concerned parties were never reached (Read more here).

And ideology was the grand basis of partition, the only one actually. The ML chose both the ideology for division and also the regions.

"Muhammad Ali Jinnah espoused the Two Nation Theory and led the Muslim League to adopt the Lahore Resolution[7] of 1940, demanding the formation of independent states for Muslims in the East and the West of British India. "

"The province of West Pakistan was created on 14 October 1955 by the merger of the provinces, states and tribal areas of the western wing. The province was composed of twelve divisions and the provincial capital was established at Lahore. The province of East Bengal was renamed East Pakistan with the provincial capital at Dhaka. The federal government moved in 1959 from Karachi to Rawalpindi (provisional capital until Islamabad was finished), whilst the federal legislature moved to Dhaka."

This was the agreed geography of Pakistan. The princely state, though free to choose the new dominions, were subject to boundary conditions, which the Nawabs of Junagadh and Hyderabad did not took into consideration.

Based on the ideology of Pakistan creation and the regions demanded by Pakistan, India was just in keeping Junagadh and Hyderabad. And there were other "at-that-time" circumstances as well that well justifies these actions, for example the rise of communal violence, future governance, etc.

The same logic was applied to Kashmir and India accepted the case of plebiscite.

As for the demilitarization issue, that question has also been addressed in the UNSC resolutions sticky towards the end (last ten pages or so, in particular my exchange with Bandit and Toxic) please read through it. The demilitarization of the territory was contingent upon negotiations conducted by the UN appointed commissions and rapporteurs and would be based on whatever proposals they came up with that were accepted by both sides, in particular India. India, AFAIK, rejected all of them, leading to the impasse in demilitarization and implementation of the UNSC resolutions.

As is relevant from that thread, India's acceptance to plebiscite was subject to pre-conditions. And an agreement to those pre-conditions were never reached by both sides. The issue hangs in limbo and so the best thing to do now is to live with what we have.

Further stretching the idea of India-Pakistan partition, that Muslims and Hindus who want to exchange sides can do so, the solution to current Kashmir valley crisis become quite clear. Those who want to go to Pakistan can do so, but demand of a separate state is neither feasible nor acceptable, even to the whole of Kashmir (as only the valley wants separation and even they are divided).

 

[Areesh]

Deep jis ka sirf mehellaat hi main jalay,
Chand logon ki khushyon ko lay ker chalay,
Wo jo saye main har maslihat kay palay;
Aisay dastoor ko,
Subh e bay noor ko,
Main naheen maanta,
Main naheen jaanta.
The light which shines only in palaces
Burns up the joy of the people in the shadows
Derives its strength from others’ weakness
That kind of system,
like dawn without light
I refuse to acknowledge,
I refuse to accept

Main bhee kha’if naheen takhta e daar say,
Main bhee Mansoor hoon, keh do aghyaar say,
Kyun daraatay ho zindaan ki divar say,
Zulm ki baat ko,
Jehel ki raat ko,
Main naheen maanta,
Main naheen jaanta.

I am not afraid of execution,
Tell the world that I am the martyr
How can you frighten me with prison walls?
This overhanging doom,
this night of ignorance,
I refuse to acknowledge,
I refuse to accept

Phool shaakhon pay khilnay lagay tum kaho,
Jaam rindon ko milnay lagay tum kaho,
Chak seenon kay silnay lagay tum kaho,
Iss khulay jhoot ko,
Zehan ki loot ko,
Main naheen maanta,
Main naheen jaanta.

“Flowers are budding on branches”, that’s what you say,
“Every cup overflows”, that’s what you say,
“Wounds are healing themselves”, that’s what you say,
These bare-faces lies,
this insult to the intelligence,
I refuse to acknowledge,
I refuse to accept

Tum nay loota hai sadyon hamara sakoon,
Ab na hum per chalay ga tumhara fasoon,
Chara gar main tumhain kiss tara say kahoon?
Tum naheen charaagar,
Koi maanay magar,
Main naheen maanta,
Main naheen jaanta.

For centuries you have all stolen our peace of mind
But your power over us is coming to an end
Why do you pretend you can cure pain?
Even if some claim that you’ve healed them,
I refuse to acknowledge,
I refuse to accept.

Ah lovely poem bro. Indeed one of the best from Jalib.

Thanks.

 

[notsuperstitious]

More than 80 protesters have died this summer in anti-India demonstrations People gathered to protest against the [desecration] of the Koran. It started as a small rally of about 200 people, but it grew into a few thousand. Protesters started throwing stones at the forces and that provoked the clashes.

So, a bunch of peaceful people decide to protest the supposed koran burning in the US, they gather around, and they decide to throw stones that can kill and maim at the police who are there for law and order. Then they decide its a good idea to run police over in a lorry and kill them, burn govt property and churches and schools. And when police use force against these rioters, we are supposed to sympathise with them!!!

All the best with that.