Kashmir: Iran’s handling of Israel offers valuable lessons for Pakistan

[Trango Towers]

Iran has oil to finance their activities. What does Pakistan have ?

If you look at the map there was lot of countries separating Iran from Israel. Hence the proxy model works
There is nothing separating you from India



has pakistani army ever had more than 3 weeks of military supplies in its history ?

well interesting you ask that. where did you get three weeks from? i sincerely hope you are wrong

 

[nahtanbob]

well interesting you ask that. where did you get three weeks from? i sincerely hope you are wrong

I do not have a primary source for it

keep in mind artillery shell costs $2000-3000. If you have a million shells that is $2-3 billion
the storage costs for a million shells is going to be huge

do the arithmetic across the board for everything

 

[El Sidd]

When did Iran and Israel get into a territorial dispute? What borders are they sharing?

Next thing you know OP will be leaching on twitter handles from Yemen and Jordan and spreading hate equally and without bias.

Government is dying to get into blacklist trading with Iran

 

[Trango Towers]

I do not have a primary source for it

keep in mind artillery shell costs $2000-3000. If you have a million shells that is $2-3 billion
the storage costs for a million shells is going to be huge

do the arithmetic across the board for everything

Pakistan makes its own shells and no they don't cost that much to make, i agree however that inventory costs are huge

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Don't follow iranian model. India is not israel , it would be a huge compliment to india if we compare it to strong and modern state of israel.

Its the opposite actually in south asia. Of what you suggest. India is a destabalizing and jegative force in south asia. Pakistan is more than capable of keeping balance with india. If one day pakistaniz decided enough is enough they could with hardship ofcourse balakanize india espeically its north and western parts.

We should keep our military up to speed thats all. India is unstable country and not very natural union wait for the iron to be red hot and a single blow will break it into halves.

Just keep gathering strength with advantages such as hypersonic weapons , hydrogen bombs , non detectable high dage dealing weapons.

Make cost of war super heavy for pesky indian scum.

Your statement is more fancy than reality if it was true then there was no Indian administration Kashmir.

The fact is that Pakistan lost own part of lands after the independent.( Bangladesh and siachen).

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Your statement is more fancy than reality if it was true then there was no Indian administration Kashmir.

The fact is that Pakistan lost own part of lands after the independent.( Bangladesh and siachen).

That's like saying india lost 35% of it's territory in the creation of Pakistan in 1947. bangladesh was created for the same reason why Pakistan was created. Racial and or religious differences. Nothing more. Pakistan still has domain over 35% of Kashmir, india 45% and China 20%. These are brilliant odds for Pakistan considering we are more than 7× smaller than india.

Pakistan is self sufficient in food production and other major imports are through China. Iran is next for oil imports. So yes pakistan can sustain the blow easily. The only thing is that Pakistani leaders cannot runaway in the west where their black money is stashed.

As for nuclear blackmail, it won't work. Pakistani thinking is crystal clear that in case pakistan goes down it will make sure it take India down. In case of nuclear war between Pakistan and India, Pakistan maybe no more,it will not exist but India situation will be of a man without arms and legs and teeths. That would be new India, a nuclear wasteland with people being born with defects for next 2 centuries or even more. There will still be 57 other Muslim countries but India...no more swamies.

Actually they would all be born with defects for at least 5000 years. Another thing is that Pakistan has the ability to wipe india off the face of the earth as we have had thermonuclear/H-bomb capability since early 2011. Over 9 years:

https://isis-online.org/isis-report...nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/12

 

[Crusher]

You should be thankful to Mush.

@Foxtrot Alpha One must remember that last time our decade long planning went into drain,when ruling junta sold everything for sake of ruling.
@Psychic

I am amazed that how conveniently they forget that Musharraf took a U-turn on Kashmir insurgency in 2003 or 2004 I believe when he used to beg to have a meeting with indian prime ministers like Wajpai and later with Manmohan singh. The same so-called "hero" and "killer of india" that was supposed to annihilate inida during kargil war in 1999. It just shows you the level of hypocrisy and shamelessness.
And on the topic Pakistan doesn't need to learn anything from Iran as far as proxies are concerned. Pakistan started proxies in Afghanistan starting from late 70s much before Iran even learned about the concept of proxies.

 

[nahtanbob]

I am amazed that how conveniently they forget that Musharraf took a U-turn on Kashmir insurgency in 2003 or 2004 I believe when he used to beg to have a meeting with indian prime ministers like Wajpai and later with Manmohan singh. The same "hero" and "killer of india" that was supposed to annihilate inida during kargil war in 1999. It just shows you the level of hypocrisy and shamelessness.
And on the topic Pakistan doesn't need to learn anything from Iran as far as proxies are concerned. Pakistan started proxies in Afghanistan in 80s much before Iran even learned about the very word of proxies.

it remains to be seen what is the cost of proxy war in Afghanistan

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

That's like saying india lost 35% of it's territory in the creation of Pakistan in 1947. bangladesh was created for the same reason why Pakistan was created. Racial and or religious differences. Nothing more. Pakistan still has domain over 35% of Kashmir, india 45% and China 20%. These are brilliant odds for Pakistan considering we are more than 7× smaller than india.

India never lost territory to Pakistan. Read the history carefully about Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan was already reached near to Kashmir in 1948 and where Indian army was not in Jammu and Kashmir.

Once agreement done then only Indian army fought the war and managed to control over 65% part of j&k.

It is more then to proof anything....

There was a British India before 1947, and two new countries were born. India never get divided in the History.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

India never lost territory to Pakistan. Read the history carefully about Jammu and Kashmir. Pakistan was already reached near to Kashmir in 1948 and where Indian army was not in Jammu and Kashmir.

Once agreement done then only Indian army fought war and manage to control over 65% part of j&k.

It is more then to proof anything....

There was a British India before 1947, and two new countries were born. India never get divided in the History.

That is factually incorrect. india controls 45% of Kashmir, not 70%:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSDEL29179620070813


Was there EVER a united india before 1947?

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

That is factually incorrect. india controls 45% of Kashmir, not 70%:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSDEL29179620070813


Was there EVER a united india before 1947?

Yes, India control approx 45% but in 1948, India was controlling approx 65%.

India lost to China in 1962...

There was a British India and before Can called " Hindustan "... But it was not united as well... Mughal, Maratha, etc...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I am amazed that how conveniently they forget that Musharraf took a U-turn on Kashmir insurgency in 2003 or 2004 I believe when he used to beg to have a meeting with indian prime ministers like Wajpai and later with Manmohan singh. The same "hero" and "killer of india" that was supposed to annihilate inida during kargil war in 1999. It just shows you the level of hypocrisy and shamelessness.
And on the topic Pakistan doesn't need to learn anything from Iran as far as proxies are concerned. Pakistan started proxies in Afghanistan in 80s much before Iran even learned about the very word of proxies.

We had NO CHOICE in 2003/4 As the Americans were preparing to invade or attack Pakistan in those days. They were also inducing the indians to attack us.

 

[Malik Alpha]

So it means we should do nothing. Just sit back and interfere in other countries and leave India alone.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Proxies and all was possible when LOC was porous now it's more or less sealed. So, the 90s ain't coming back. At best it's local rag-tag jihadis that fall like ninepins every other day.

 

[Falcon29]

Only weapons actually used against Israel are ones in Gaza, and they have to purchase much of their own weapons and do not get much from Iran. Rest of arenas have nothing to do with Israel and more to do consolidate power in region in competition with Arabs.

Iran and Israel never had conflict together historically so it is different than India Pakistan who border each other and have more history together. Iran's real deterrence is more about its distance from Israel and its size as a nation. So do not believe a 'model' against Israel exist. It really doesn't. Even Hezbollah in Lebanon was mostly supported to protect Shia community there during Lebanese civil war.

Iran is in Syria to put bases near Israel and they have fulfilled that objective. Turkey and Russia respect that, whatever else goes in Syria is Russia and Turkey's problem to deal with.

Iran is in Syria to assist Syria for manpower purposes and not to threaten Israel. Syria wouldn't need them to build bases for Israel and would just request weaponry from them if that was their intent. I can assure you Syria under Assad has no intent to go to war with Israel. And they cannot deter Israel from striking weapons shipments to Lebanon.

Pakistan needs to build up such a large missile arsenal that it is at least 3-4X missiles that India has. It should establish a deterrence that India will not be able to win any kind of missile battle with Pakistan if they try to retaliate. Iran employs this strategy with proxies in Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza surrounding Israel and it works very well. Israel has missiles but Iran has them outnumbered so heavily with its proxies missiles that Israel does not even have a chance of winning. Turkish drone strategy in Syria is also a good example. Turkey has so many drones that they don't give a shit if a few of them get shot down. Turkey just keeps churning out as many drones as they need and keep striking anything that moves since they have a massive numerical advantage and never run out.

Lebanon and Syria have good quality weapons but they never will use them against Israel. Israel's only immediate worry is Gaza as they are in direct conflict with Palestinians. Those in Gaza have cheap quality weapons much of which has to be built locally. If they were Iranian proxy they will never attack Israel(considering Iranian proxies in Syria keep taking hits and not responding). Gaza is run by Hamas which is Palestinian branch of Muslim Brotherhood. It is not proxy of Iran and has a lot more courage than Iran and its allies.

Syria and Lebanon are no longer in a serious , protracted conflict with Israel and thus if you consider this a strategy for deterrence than you are misidentifying the real deterrence which is Iran's landmass and geographical distance from Israel which along with their infrastructure and ability to sustain an Israel campaign is reason why Israel won't strike their nuclear program as well as it because it can not get international backing to do so.

So real deterrence is Iran and not Lebanon or Syria which won't be able to do much if Israel neighbored Iran.