Kashmir: Iran’s handling of Israel offers valuable lessons for Pakistan

[Psychic]

this is not nitpicking ...

Bye

 

[El Sidd]

Bye

do you believe OP should be listed in the leftist thread?

 

[Sine Nomine]

Mush made the ultimate surrender after Op Parakaram.

Despite the fact that supporting the insurgency was economic military solution to Kashmir problem. It had tied down a large bulk of Indian forces and finances to counter-insurgency roles yielding benefit at strategic level for PA.

Fanbois can't accept that.

 

[Aspen]

Your absolutely right. I want to touch few of your points.

Pakistan's asymmetric capabilities for attrition are hampered by 2 things. Threat of sanctions and depletion of resources in afghanistan which dilutes Pakistan's conventional strength and hence comprising its deterrent capabilities.

Threat of sanctions is most dangerous. To avoid it Pakistan must make it clear to NATO that Pakistan will not allow its territory to be used against western nations which musharraf actually tried to do (whether we like him or not)
Then also make it clear that if you view Pakistan's support of kashmir from india's view which is terrorism, it will go straight to the garbage bin. US will understand it. Musharraf again did some work on that.

Your point about cyber capabilities is v. important. But in Pakistan we can't even handle dawn and tribune. U will see china daily more positive and pro Pakistan than these two terror papers.

A news channel like Press Tv, proper pro pakistan english newspaper, a cyber corp which is part of cyber command of Pakistan armed forces just like in iran and US. A cyber corps will run social media centers, and also attack behind the enemy lines with asymmetric attacks. I would also put cyber battalions or platoons in each corp as well.

We should learn good things from Iran despite our differences with them. Sadly most Pakistanis only see Iran with a sectarian eye. I dont like Iran's regime at all, but their doctrine is worth a look.

On topic, your point about iranian missile deterrent is right. Iran will launch a saturation attack against any invader by not just ballistic or cruise but also Air defence networks which they have strongly woven. Imagine this deterrent. We have to plead with Pakistan armed forces to develop a declared conventional missile command its very important. Iran has the largest arsenal of missiles in M.east and we should have in S. asia.

Now about iran's revolutionary guard corp. I am of the view Pakistan needs an internal security force like iran, russia, india and egypt. Bhutto ( whether we like him or not) made federal security force with ex military. It should have continued and may be it would have become what sepah is today because sepah started as a purely internal guard and now look at it. If Pakistan army doesn't trust such a force, why not give rangers such a role.

Put all FCs and rangers and national guards under one name but with different sectors and develop special forces wings in them. They can their own intelligence wings. We can use them both internally and externally like iran does with sepah. Imagine a 3 hundred thousand strong paramilitary with all these capabilities.

Now, Iranian naval tactics can also be adopted. Why not have 20 missile boats comparable to azmat class. Why go for big ships only? Iranians deploy coastal missile defense, air defence systems and these missile boats in large numbers.

These things should be discussed more often with many members.

Threat of sanctions on Pakistan is not going to be decided by US/EU/NATO but rather by Indian lobbying campaign in US/EU/NATO. The trouble with sanctions will be if Pakistan doesn't do everything in its power to decimate Indian lobbying in the west. We need to create the most aggressive counter lobbying campaign against India in the history of Pakistan. We must have a clear, concise, organized, swift, and concerted movement that is as good or better than Indian lobbying in US and Europe. Pakistan must counter any and all Indian lobbying in the west. There should not be any confusion or misunderstanding about Pakistan's message, it should be clear, short, simple, effective, to the point, and translated into many languages on billboards in major capitols. Pakistan needs a catchy, clear as daylight slogan so that as many people as possible can understand and spread it across the world in every language:

Better is to receive a bullet in the front than in the back. It's hard to say the truth, but it's even harder to endure the truth. You cannot see this message in Indian occupied Kashmir.

This can be done with showstoppers, go big or go home tactics to get as much attention as possible on Kashmir. Buy a 30 second Superbowl TV ad next year with clips of horrendous Indian abuses and pellet guns. Take out billboards in New York City, Los Angeles, London, Istanbul, Riyadh, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, Shanghai, and Sydney and write this message in huge letters, broadcast a live stream of LOC, and a giant graph of internet blackouts in Kashmir. Put it on the side of London double decker buses. Make FIFA soccer balls in Sialkot with motivational quotes to world from Kashmiris written on them and sell thousands of Kashmiri soccer balls to Walmart, Tesco and other big box stores around the world. Hand out free shirts with signatures of Kashmiris in Times Square and Statue of Liberty. If Trump ever visits Pakistan, Imran Khan could become the first PM of Pakistan to take a US President to the LOC in Kashmir in a tank so the world sees what is really going on there. Every man, woman, and child should known where Kashmir is. We need big, high profile events to put the world's attention on Kashmir. This is not the time to sell ourselves short, we need to go big or go home. This is it, do or die. Put Kashmir on the map once and for all. India is going for the kill on Kashmir and we are going to need some bold, unconventional, outside the box strategies to counter it. Luckily for Pakistan, the human rights situation favors us. Indian atrocities in Kashmir are globally documented and already follow the Pakistani narrative, we just need to keep reinforcing it and hammering it with relentless force and media scrutiny until it becomes common knowledge. Invite the world's media into Kashmir and show them the LOC so they can film Indian Army shelling Pakistani civilians for irrefutable documented evidence and present our narrative to the world. Pakistan needs to establish a real and credible international English media outlet like TRT or Al Jazeera while rowdy Indian media descends deeper into hell with the cancerous nest of vultures and cesspool of fake jingoism. By the time Pakistan is done with this aggressive media blitz campaign, India's mantra of Kashmir as an internal matter of India and world's biggest democracy will be viewed with the seriousness given to the propaganda of a rouge nation. When Indian abuses in Kashmir are given swift international condemnation in a single unified voice, then it is time for Pakistan to act and deliver on our promise to Kashmir.

On hard power, I agree that Iran should have the largest missile arsenal in the Middle East and Pakistan should have the largest missile arsenal in South Asia. There should be a focus on indigenous production of missiles and military equipment to reduce dependency on other countries. Iran's underground missile cities in every single province are famously so stuffed that there is no more room. Deterrence and power projection are needed to establish some credibility. Missiles aren't made to sit around, they are made to be used and exported to proxies. Pakistan also needs some IRGC equivalent elite asymmetric force specializing in clandestine operations and proxy warfare, made up of a fusion of the best ISI and SGG operatives. Nuclear teams should commit to having a functional EMP weapon by the end of the decade if they don't already have it. Areas where Pakistan is ahead of India such as MIRV should be ensured that they stay ahead and keep the lead. Pakistan also needs a new asymmetric aerospace force to design highly unconventional aircraft, supersonic drones specializing in high altitude reconnaissance over India, and a PAF manual rewritten completely from scratch on Air Force tactical operations incorporating coordination of advanced cyber warfare and blitzkrieg style capabilities into their doctrine to disorient and overwhelm the enemy. JF-17 and future Pakistani aircraft should be upgraded to fly at a much higher altitude where enemy defenses struggle. Tactics like simultaneously disabling or flooding enemy radar with fake aircraft through a barrage of cyberattacks to divert the enemy response away, testing reaction times, use of squadrons of drone swarms to conduct drone strikes en masse mixed in with PAF, as well as use of missiles datalinked to AEW&C aircraft to enable PAF jets in enemy territory to go dark and emulate stealth capabilities.

 

[Soumitra]

Threat of sanctions on Pakistan is not going to be decided by US/EU/NATO but rather by Indian lobbying campaign in US/EU/NATO. The trouble with sanctions will be if Pakistan doesn't do everything in its power to decimate Indian lobbying in the west. We need to create the most aggressive counter lobbying campaign against India in the history of Pakistan. We must have a clear, concise, organized, swift, and concerted movement that is as good or better than Indian lobbying in US and Europe. Pakistan must counter any and all Indian lobbying in the west. There should not be any confusion or misunderstanding about Pakistan's message, it should be clear, short, simple, effective, to the point, and translated into many languages on billboards in major capitols. Pakistan needs a catchy, clear as daylight slogan so that as many people as possible can understand and spread it across the world in every language:

Better is to receive a bullet in the front than in the back. It's hard to say the truth, but it's even harder to endure the truth. You cannot see this message in Indian occupied Kashmir.

This can be done with showstoppers, go big or go home tactics to get as much attention as possible on Kashmir. Buy a 30 second Superbowl TV ad next year with clips of horrendous Indian abuses and pellet guns. Take out billboards in New York City, Los Angeles, London, Istanbul, Riyadh, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, Shanghai, and Sydney and write this message in huge letters, broadcast a live stream of LOC, and a giant graph of internet blackouts in Kashmir. Put it on the side of London double decker buses. Make FIFA soccer balls in Sialkot with motivational quotes to world from Kashmiris written on them and sell thousands of Kashmiri soccer balls to Walmart, Tesco and other big box stores around the world. Hand out free shirts with signatures of Kashmiris in Times Square and Statue of Liberty. If Trump ever visits Pakistan, Imran Khan could become the first PM of Pakistan to take a US President to the LOC in Kashmir in a tank so the world sees what is really going on there. Every man, woman, and child should known where Kashmir is. We need big, high profile events to put the world's attention on Kashmir. This is not the time to sell ourselves short, we need to go big or go home. This is it, do or die. Put Kashmir on the map once and for all. India is going for the kill on Kashmir and we are going to need some bold, unconventional, outside the box strategies to counter it. Luckily for Pakistan, the human rights situation favors us. Indian atrocities in Kashmir are globally documented and already follow the Pakistani narrative, we just need to keep reinforcing it and hammering it with relentless force and media scrutiny until it becomes common knowledge. Invite the world's media into Kashmir and show them the LOC so they can film Indian Army shelling Pakistani civilians for irrefutable documented evidence and present our narrative to the world. Pakistan needs to establish a real and credible international English media outlet like TRT or Al Jazeera while rowdy Indian media descends deeper into hell with the cancerous nest of vultures and cesspool of fake jingoism. By the time Pakistan is done with this aggressive media blitz campaign, India's mantra of Kashmir as an internal matter of India and world's biggest democracy will be viewed with the seriousness given to the propaganda of a rouge nation. When Indian abuses in Kashmir are given swift international condemnation in a single unified voice, then it is time for Pakistan to act and deliver on our promise to Kashmir.

On hard power, I agree that Iran should have the largest missile arsenal in the Middle East and Pakistan should have the largest missile arsenal in South Asia. There should be a focus on indigenous production of missiles and military equipment to reduce dependency on other countries. Iran's underground missile cities in every single province are famously so stuffed that there is no more room. Deterrence and power projection are needed to establish some credibility. Missiles aren't made to sit around, they are made to be used and exported to proxies. Pakistan also needs some IRGC equivalent elite asymmetric force specializing in clandestine operations and proxy warfare, made up of a fusion of the best ISI and SGG operatives. Nuclear teams should commit to having a functional EMP weapon by the end of the decade if they don't already have it. Areas where Pakistan is ahead of India such as MIRV should be ensured that they stay ahead and keep the lead. Pakistan also needs a new asymmetric aerospace force to design highly unconventional aircraft, supersonic drones specializing in high altitude reconnaissance over India, and a PAF manual rewritten completely from scratch on Air Force tactical operations incorporating coordination of advanced cyber warfare and blitzkrieg style capabilities into their doctrine to disorient and overwhelm the enemy. JF-17 and future Pakistani aircraft should be upgraded to fly at a much higher altitude where enemy defenses struggle. Tactics like simultaneously disabling or flooding enemy radar with fake aircraft through a barrage of cyberattacks to divert the enemy response away, testing reaction times, use of squadrons of drone swarms to conduct drone strikes en masse mixed in with PAF, as well as use of missiles datalinked to AEW&C aircraft to enable PAF jets in enemy territory to go dark and emulate stealth capabilities.

This sounds good in theory but you must remember India can outspend you 2,3,4 times easily. You will put ads for alleged "human rights violations" We will put ads showing Pakistan sponsored terrorism. You don't have it in you to counter Indian blitzkrieg.

BTW Palestinians have been showcasing these pictures but what is the end result.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

This sounds good in theory but you must remember India can outspend you 2,3,4 times easily. You will put ads for alleged "human rights violations" We will put ads showing Pakistan sponsored terrorism. You don't have it in you to counter Indian blitzkrieg.

BTW Palestinians have been showcasing these pictures but what is the end result.

But indians like you also claimed that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance as we didn't have the finances for it...........

 

[Soumitra]

But indians like you also claimed that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance as we didn't have the finances for it...........

Pakistanis like you claimed India would never abrogate Article 370. Then Modi came and now it is in dustbin of history.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Pakistanis like you claimed India would never abrogate Article 370. Then Modi came and now it is in dustbin of history.

So when did we claim that?.............

 

[mqur1963]

IRAN NO FREIND OF SUNNI MUSLIMS IT IS A CANCER IN ISLAM

 

[Aspen]

This sounds good in theory but you must remember India can outspend you 2,3,4 times easily. You will put ads for alleged "human rights violations" We will put ads showing Pakistan sponsored terrorism. You don't have it in you to counter Indian blitzkrieg.

Well Pakistan can bring journalists its side of Kashmir and India won't.

Ground reality in Kashmir has always favored Pakistan because its India that is massacring Kashmiris.

Pakistan has the truth on its side. We don't need to make fake propaganda like India when Pakistan can just let people see the truth for themselves. The Indian narrative is a house of cards that will collapse with the slightest bit of investigation by international media.

 

[Psychic]

Pakistan is not Iran, they can't stand pressure,sanctions, FATF etc. 2 Rs price increase in naan and the sky falls on you people. Iran is under sanctions from 1979, how long has FATF kept Pakistan in grey list?

OIL