Kashmir Has Always Been a Part of Pakistan

[Rajeev_Anand]

Kashmir has always been a part of Pak , also because the people of kashmir have accepted themselves as Pakistanis.

So you want to allow plebiscite in Baluchistan, let them decide whether they want to be with Pak....

The only problem I have with them is their skewed outlook on Kashmiris which stems only from same UMMAH link which is just nothing but wild insinuations of ppl living across the border....

They are in long sleep and they are fed stories which are far from truth, why no body ask plz ban the foreign words India, Raw, CIA, NDS etc... and talk only about Pakistan then and only then they will realise actual conditions,

 

[RazaGujjar]

Can you please enlighten why the majority doesn't want to be part of India ??

Please don't tell me because of Indian oppression since J & K was relatively peaceful up until 1989 after which the insurgency started. Ironically it was immediately after the Soviet-Afghanistan war and the world very well know the reason.

The constant azadi slogans, the fearless wavering of Pakistans flag infront of your armed forces is not enough proof for you?

Please spare me the "foreign terrorists are to blame" card. There was a time when you could have correctly played that card. Not Now. Your issues are from within. Women and kids are not terrorists.

The picture in the OP shows a funeral with the body of a teenager killed by pellets draped in Pakistan's flag. Are you blind to this?

If you still refuse to acknowledge the issue, how about you let Kashmiri's vote just to decide what they want. Shouldn't be too hard, after all India is the so called "biggest democracy in the world".

 

[Rajeev_Anand]

The constant azadi slogans, the fearless wavering of Pakistans flag infront of your armed forces is not enough proof for you?

Please spare me the "foreign terrorists are to blame" card. There was a time when you could have correctly played that card. Not Now. Your issue are from within. Women and kids are not terrorists.
The picture in the OP shows a funeral with the body of a teenager killed by pellets draped in Pakistan's flag. Are you blind to this?

If you still refuse to acknowledge the issue, how about you let Kashmiri's vote just to decide what they want. Shouldn't be too hard, after all India is the so called "biggest democracy in the world".

Kashmir is an integral part of India and will remain so irrespective of any conditions.....
Pakis plz manage Baluch, KPK, Sindh and ask Punjab to share resources to the nation.

 

[PakGuns]

Kashmir was, is and will always be .. they will get independence hope they get independence as a new country or be with Pakistan according to their wish,.,, . indian hatred can't change minds of people of kashmir,

 

[Mansoon]

Kashmir was, is and will always be .. they will get independence hope they get independence as a new country or be with Pakistan according to their wish,.,, . indian hatred can't change minds of people of kashmir,

Can't Kashmir stay with India?

 

[JazbaatiHindustaani]

Congratulations by virtue of opening this thread on Pakdefence forum, the world gathers in unison to award Kashmir to Pakistan.


OOPS, thats not how it works.

Kashmir was, is and will always be .. they will get independence hope they get independence as a new country or be with Pakistan according to their wish,.,, . indian hatred can't change minds of people of kashmir,

IMO only solution for India would be to force out Kashmiri's from the region and provide them with funds to resettle in other parts of the country and if there is a section that loves Pakistan, be our guest, we'll drop you across the border in first class A/C Bus/train.

And use that region as military deployment. A win-win for India, as the case is now, India will always have to be armed there because *cough* non-state actors *cough* will cause troubles.

 

[RazaGujjar]

Kashmir is an integral part of India and will remain so irrespective of any conditions.....
Pakis plz manage Baluch, KPK, Sindh and ask Punjab to share resources to the nation.

Thankyou for your concern, FYI we are doing our best to eradicate the never ending Indian proxies on our soil.

 

[Alternative]

The Crown Colony of India existed from 1858 onwards, ruled over by the Governor-General and Viceroy, in the latter position representing the British Crown. India existed within British legislation from much earlier than that. In fact, India existed from the time of 1498, when, we are told, Da Gama knocked at India's gate. It was India to which their galleons had come, replete with little fortresses and tiny kingdoms around these.

What ever you trying to convey is beyond me..............
-- Crown Colony on India existed from 1858 onwards.............OK
-- India existed within British legislation......................eh, from when Nations or state states existed from legislation of other nations......?
-- In fact, India existed from the time of 1498................. ek, what if Vasco Day Gama has not come, then India has not existed?

Why is that, you are trying to show the existence of nation of India, by this report of a visitor, or to a historical reference in books of Greeks etc.

<sigh>

Look at your post. My answers are interspersed.


I would like to meet the Pakistani who says that Pakistan existed before 1947. What sense does that make?


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/kashmir-has-always-been-a-part-of-pakistan.457619/page-3#ixzz4O78CxJs2

A convoluted response; I asked that "People (mostly Indians) say that Pakistan didn't exited before 1947; and in same breath, also say; India or Kashmir existed for thousands of years" .When asked, how so, one would say, Greeks mentioned in this b.c. the Kasperia; the Indus: the Indica:
There would be 1.3 billion Indians that would say India existed from thousands of years.

Follow the below link for "5000 year of Pakistan"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/5000-Years-Pakistan-Archaeological-Outline/dp/B003UI5EY6

Since you are obviously ignorant, as your question demonstrates, let me illustrate the point by asking you a simple question: When did the modern nation-state come into existence? What was the status of nations before that?


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/kashmir-has-always-been-a-part-of-pakistan.457619/page-3#ixzz4O76w5Hdp

Yes I am ignorant to peoples claims that two countries came into being by carving a single state (British India), how come one existed from "ancient time'' and other existed from 1947.

As long as river Indus was/is flowing the land eastwards to it will be known as India, Indus , Al-Hind, Hindustan , Tianzhu, Tenjiku, Bharatavarsha, Aryavarta etc. All meaning one.

Here is a brain injection:
Indus river is flowing for millions of year, and only recently, about the vedic time', land of the seven rivers (Indus+ 5 rivers of Punjab+now dried-up Saraswati) was called Sapta-Sindhu- roughly Area roughly now Pakistan: Few centuries down, the Mahabharata time...We have Mahajanapadas and now Area under consideration is extended up to present day Bengal, and in south the to vindhya range (that is, present peninsular India excluded).
and further few centuries later, here came the Greeks and there history; again they called the land on both sides of Indus called the Indica (not the eastward of Indus only);
Further down the time line, the Persians called the land adjacent to their Kingdom, present day Baluchistan and Sindh, as Sind, which became as Hind etc..
Main point is that all nomenclature used was to refer to certain different geographical locations during different times, Not to a state or nation or any other political entity....


So your assertion "was" is totally absurd and ridiculous. as for your "will be" go ahead and rewrite the history books.
You may get for yourself a dozen brain injections from Joe Shearer, surely at a discount.

 

[Asian.Century]

Kashmir issue must be resolved now, PM Nawaz tells UK NSA

• Khawaja Daud
• October 24, 2016 4:21 pm

ISLAMABAD – Kashmir issue must be resolved according to the UN resolutions as per the commitments made by the Indian government, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said during a meeting with Sir Mark Lyall Grant, National Security Adviser, United Kingdom.

“Pakistan is peace loving country and pursues the policy of maintaining friendly relationships with all its neighbors,” the PM said during the meeting at Prime Minister Office on Monday.

Welcoming the UK’s national security advisor, Nawaz Sharif said that the issue of Indian Occupied Kashmir (IOK) is the core issue between India and Pakistan and its resolution would ensure durable peace in the region.

Man, child martyred as India resorts to unprovoked firing along Working Boundary

Paying rich tributes to the sacrifices made in the war against terrorism, Mr. Grant commended the government for achieving substantial successes in this war.

The NSA acknowledged the huge sacrifices made by the armed forces, police and other law enforcing agencies of Pakistan in the war against terrorists.

He said that the commitment of political government and armed forces, supported by the people of Pakistan have resulted into phenomenal victory against terrorism.

Sir Mark Lyall Grant also congratulated the prime minister on successfully completing the IMF support programme and achieving macroeconomic stability.

Pakistan out of economic crisis: IMF chief

“It is exceedingly positive to learn from DFID that Pakistan is showing remarkable improvement in the health and education sectors,” added the NSA.

He appreciated the PM’s policy of reaching out to the neighbor countries for establishing cordial relationships with them. “We encourage and support your efforts for peaceful cooperation with your neighboring countries,” added the NSA.

PM Nawaz, on the occasion, highlighted it is high time that long standing issue of IOK is resolved as per the aspirations of the people of Kashmir; guaranteed to them by the UN resolutions.

“More than hundred innocent people have been brutally killed, hundreds have been blinded by the use of pellet guns while thousands have been injured in the last few months alone,” Nawaz said, stressing that the world community must take a note of the grave human rights violations and atrocities committed by Indian forces in the Indian Occupied Kashmir.

 

[Alternative]

No there was no Dominion of India before 1947; who said so, btw? Or are you busy setting up arguments to knock down?

It was not the British Dominion before 1947. I get irritated when people use words loosely, and I am getting irritated now. It was the British Crown Colony, and a collection of 561 native states which acknowledged the suzerainty of the British Crown, direct, not of the Colony.

The rest, Dominion of India from 1947 to 1950 and Republic of India from 1950 onwards, is correct.

Apparently you have no idea about the constitutional status of a Dominion; it is not a country, it is a territory ruled by the British monarch, through a Governor General. For your ready reference, Australia, New Zealand and Canada are Dominions even today. There are others as well. Crown Colonies are different.

There will still be some suspicious souls trying to find fault. Just watch the fun.

If you have't noted before (or playing possum), my answer was to the quoted post of 'baajey', who also thanked you for above post. Go read the post if you have not, where in he wrote that there was Dominion of India right after British completed their conquest.
I misused the term "British Dominion" instead of "British Colony", thanks for pointing out.
If you are having irritation, drink a glass of gold water, and if irritation persist, try a ice pack on head, and still if condition persist, try a brain injection.

thank you.
i stand corrected in this play of words. however, my point is still relevant.

How your point is still relevant when basic premise of your argument was wrong, as you yourself acknowledged?

Do you even remember your own few previous posts in this thread?

 

[Mercury]

what if Vasco Day Gama has not come, then India has not existed?

India did exist before the arrival of Vasco Da Gama. Please look for 'Medieval India' or 'Middle kingdoms of India' in the internet.

 

[Alternative]

India did exist before the arrival of Vasco Da Gama. Please look for 'Medieval India' or 'Middle kingdoms of India' in the internet.

You will have to follow the whole chain of arguments and counter arguments,........ to make it meaningful. Nitpicking will not work.

India as a state existed from 1947.... India as a nation existed after the conquest of British.... when native of Indian Subcontinent settled on a common identity. When British said .... oh you Indian to all and sundry.
All the historical references to Indus, Indica, Sapta Sindhu, Mahajanada, Bharata Versha, Hind, are reference/names of different geographical areas (not a same area) given by different people/cultures/nations in different time frames/eras.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

No one denied its existence. What are you talking about? The question that was asked, if you take the trouble to look up the post in question, was what was the status of Pakistan before 1947. Are you saying that Pakistan existed before 15th August 1947?

I would like to ask if Pakistan (or Hindustan) even exists today, or are we still a bastardized form of British India? But then, it will hurt a lot of feelings here, so I remain quiet in these rhetorical discussions.

 

[Mercury]

You will have to follow the whole chain of arguments and counter arguments,........ to make it meaningful. Nitpicking will not work.

India as a state existed from 1947.... India as a nation existed after the conquest of British.... when native of Indian Subcontinent settled on a common identity. When British said .... oh you Indian to all and sundry.
All the historical references to Indus, Indica, Sapta Sindhu, Mahajanada, Bharata Versha, Hind, are reference/names of different geographical areas (not a same area) given by different people/cultures/nations in different time frames/eras.

Exactly nitpicking won't work.

Your view is that the name 'India' came to existence in 1947 at same time when Pakistan came to existence.But not exactly.

As you mentioned the name India became more predominant after British conquest, especially after the 1857 rebellion. In fact 'Government of India Act 1858' was passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom to take control of the nation from East India Company and bring under the rule of the British Crown. So I can confidently say that in 1858 there is an official mention of India in an international forum (The Parliament of the United Kingdom in this case).

Pakistan was created in 1947 through 'Partition of India' based on Lahore Resolution in 1940 whereas India got independence in 1947 from the British. The British proposed to give independence by dividing 'India' (already existing) into three dominions. Already existing Indian dominion for Hindus, new dominion Pakistan for Muslims and the third for Princely States. India negotiated with the Princely states to convince them to join India include Kashmir. Doing so it became Republic in 1950.

 

[Centurion2016]

Kashmir is a indian state,

THIS WILL NEVER BE CHANGED no matter how many nukes any one acquires