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Kashmir Day Today

I love that - Martial Law.

I hope you have not forgotten the difference between Martial law and democratic means to maintain law and order.

I would hardly call the NWFP as martial law, notwithstanding the employment of the Army and human rights abuses as some would like to term.

IN NWFP Pakistan is fighting against the Terrorists of Al-Qaeda while in Indian Held Kashmir Indian Army is killing innocent armless Kashmiris in their own terrotery

Fortunately, as a point of order, I would stae we do not use gunships, or the air force or the artillery on our own citizens.

A shade better, what? )
Yeh as you forgotten the Mezoram episode.
India is the first country in the history that has used air attacks on its own citizen in Mezoram to quell trouble.

I think little search should be done by you Sir Brigadier :)
 
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IN NWFP Pakistan is fighting against the Terrorists of Al-Qaeda while in Indian Held Kashmir Indian Army is killing innocent armless Kashmiris in their own terrotery

Your view and not that of those who are at it.

Now it is AQ and some times it is Pakistan Taliban. You must make up your mind.

Yeh as you forgotten the Mezoram episode.
India is the first country in the history that has used air attacks on its own citizen in Mezoram to quell trouble.

India has not used air at all or heavy weapons after that, It ws used desperate situations as a last resort to save garrisons from being overrun by rebel forces which were attacking and not on civilians. That was the first and last and never again.

So, let this heavy weight not worry your little head!
 
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Your view and not that of those who are at it.

Now it is AQ and some times it is Pakistan Taliban. You must make up your mind.



India has not used air at all or heavy weapons after that, It ws used desperate situations as a last resort to save garrisons from being overrun by rebel forces which were attacking and not on civilians. That was the first and last and never again.

So, let this heavy weight not worry your little head!

:lol: when it comes your turn you justified use of heavy weapons and air-strike against Indian Citizens by Indian Army when it comes to Pakistan you are criticizing Pakistan and objecting to it though in our case we are faced with International Terrorists of Al-qaeda and use of force against them and those local terrorists associated with them is not at all unjust.

And howcome you can claim that during air-strike by Indian airforce on Indian citizens in Mezoram, no civilian was killed ???

Can you claim that aircraft can differentiate between rebels and civilians durin such raids ???

i dont think if so there would have been no term like Collateral damages.

And one more thing similarly it was your view and not of not that of those who are at it in case of Mezoram and Kashmir.
 
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"our case we are faced with International Terrorists of Al-qaeda and use of force against them and those local terrorists associated with them is not at all unjust."

Are not they the same people who often cross the border and then overnight turn Freedom fighters. So while in pakistam they are Terrorists because they are fighting against their own akas but in India they turn to Bechara helpless freedom fighters. You know what I think during training they are shown a lot of bollywood movies and they seem to be lot inspired by Double roles in the bollywood scripts.
 
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:lol: when it comes your turn you justified use of heavy weapons and air-strike against Indian Citizens by Indian Army when it comes to Pakistan you are criticizing Pakistan and objecting to it though in our case we are faced with International Terrorists of Al-qaeda and use of force against them and those local terrorists associated with them is not at all unjust.

And howcome you can claim that during air-strike by Indian airforce on Indian citizens in Mezoram, no civilian was killed ???

Can you claim that aircraft can differentiate between rebels and civilians durin such raids ???

i dont think if so there would have been no term like Collateral damages.

And one more thing similarly it was your view and not of not that of those who are at it in case of Mezoram and Kashmir.

Not at all!

When an attack is being done on a garrison, then obviously such people are not there doing marketting or there for shopping!

Mizoram is a jungle infested hilly terrain and the villages are miles apart. Since you are a mere reader of news and not one to research, it would appear extraordinary to you. It is nice to know that you are well versed with the catch all of "collateral damage". But for collateral damage there has to be civil population and posts are not hugging villages. Villages in Mizoram are very small with 20 huts or so and it takes hours of trudging through jungle trails to reach one from another!

It is now that roads are connecting some of the villages.

Mizoram has a democratically elected govt and there is no insurgency there! Of course, you would not have known that or would you?

I do not object to heavy weapons and air strikes against the enemy. But then you have to state that these people are the enemies of Pakistan and not citizens of Pakistan! If that is so that they are not citizens of Pakistan and are the enemies, then please use a nuke on them for all you want!
 
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Not at all!

When an attack is being done on a garrison, then obviously such people are not there doing marketting or there for shopping!
And you think the Al-Qaeda terrorists and their supporters who are attacking Pakistani garrisons and army as well as police posts, are doing marketing or there for shopping ??

So have some moral courage to comment similarly in case of Pakistan

Villages in Mizoram are very small with 20 huts or so and it takes hours of trudging through jungle trails to reach one from another!

Oh you mean the Indian Airforce jets and other aircracft used in attacking Mizoram trudged through jungle trails. I guess these aircraft were foot-soldiers :lol:

Mizoram has a democratically elected govt and there is no insurgency there! Of course, you would not have known that or would you?

NWFP also has a democratically elected govt and there is no insurgency there! Of course, you would not have known that or would you



I do not object to heavy weapons and air strikes against the enemy. But then you have to state that these people are the enemies of Pakistan and not citizens of Pakistan! If that is so that they are not citizens of Pakistan and are the enemies, then please use a nuke on them for all you want!

It is not neccessary the enemies of a country should all be outsiders these can be natives hand glove with outside terrorists for vested intrests.
So did India declared people of Mizoram as enemies of India and not citizens of India when IAF aircraft were bombing them ???


BTW the main point was and is that India is the first country in the history of the world that has used airforce for attack against its own citizens in Mizoram. whether it was right or wrong but that is a fact so sir kindly next time when you accuse someone else of doing so check your own record.
 
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And you think the Al-Qaeda terrorists and their supporters who are attacking Pakistani garrisons and army as well as police posts, are doing marketing or there for shopping ??
So have some moral courage to comment similarly in case of Pakistan

Ah indeed, moral courage, what?

First of all you say there is no AQ in Pakistan, then you say that there is no Taliban and then you say there is a difference between Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban and then you say the mullah in SWAT is Iran sponsored.

Girl, before you start taking off on the handle, have the moral courage to admit what is what.

Living in denial is not the way to solve the issue or pandering slurs because of your fancy of the moment.

Can you answer why Moslems are fighting Moslems? I learn from this board that it is not acceptable for Moslems to kill Moslems. If that be the case, then what's up? Naturally, since it is embarrassing, there are these denials which confuse the issue all the more!

So cut out all this moral high standing and come to Mother Earth!



Oh you mean the Indian Airforce jets and other aircracft used in attacking Mizoram trudged through jungle trails. I guess these aircraft were foot-soldiers :lol:

If you do not understand the employment of the armed forces, or what constitute its weaponry and equipment, it is better not to display your ignorance and fool yourself that you are a "know all".

And in the event you think you are being very smart, belie that impression because you are no where close!

You are merely embarrassing yourself!



NWFP also has a democratically elected govt and there is no insurgency there! Of course, you would not have known that or would you

Indeed.

All this Mehsud and gangs are but figments of imagination?!

What's up in the Western Part of Paksitan?

A Disneyland?


It is not neccessary the enemies of a country should all be outsiders these can be natives hand glove with outside terrorists for vested intrests.
So did India declared people of Mizoram as enemies of India and not citizens of India when IAF aircraft were bombing them ???

The day the natives are considered as enemies, that is the end of everything. Read and understand insurgency and it causes. Start with Mao, graduate to Che and then to the modern ones and understand what is insurgency.

Bluffing your way through is not knowledge!

It is unfortunate that you shoot your mouth without a sausage of understanding anything.

BTW the main point was and is that India is the first country in the history of the world that has used airforce for attack against its own citizens in Mizoram. whether it was right or wrong but that is a fact so sir kindly next time when you accuse someone else of doing so check your own record.

Pathetic!
 
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Ah indeed, moral courage, what?
First of all you say there is no AQ in Pakistan,

Girl, before you start taking off on the handle, have the moral courage to admit what is what.

No one is saying there is no Al-Qaeda busy in terrorist activies and bomb blasts in Pakistan. They are and thats why we are fighting against them to save Pakistan as well as the World.

then you say the mullah in SWAT is Iran sponsored.


:what: where did i say that ????
I think you need specticals to read carefully.


Can you answer why Moslems are fighting Moslems? I learn from this board that it is not acceptable for Moslems to kill Moslems. If that be the case, then what's up? Naturally, since it is embarrassing, there are these denials which confuse the issue all the more!

Where we said Muslims are not killing other Muslims??
And one more thing not only killing any Innocent Muslim but also any Innocent Human Being is not acceptable in Islam.
Further more its you who are in self-denial with regard to killing of Innocent Kashmiris by your immoral Indian Army.



If you do not understand the employment of the armed forces, or what constitute its weaponry and equipment, it is better not to display your ignorance and fool yourself that you are a "know all".

It was you who was talking about trudged through jungle trails. i was talking about use of Indian Airforce against Indian citizens and now its another matter if in India aircraft walk by foot instead of flying ;)


Indeed.

All this Mehsud and gangs are but figments of imagination!

What's up in the Western Part of Paksitan?

A Disneyland?

If you can provide me the proof if Mehsud and his gangs are insurgents and
are busy for a separate country. Can you ?????????????????


And in the event you think you are being very smart, belie that impression because you are no where close!
You are merely embarrassing yourself!
Bluffing your way through is not knowledge!
It is unfortunate that you shoot your mouth without a sausage of understanding anything.

Sir i dint know that my face acts as a mirrior ;) if you had started seeing your reflection in me im honoured. :enjoy:



The day the natives are considered as enemies, that is the end of everything. Read and understand insurgency and it causes. Start with Mao, graduate to Che and then to the modern ones and understand what is insurgency.
Pathetic!

OK so it means Sir Ray you are saying that People who were bombared by Indian Airforce in Mizoram were not Indian Citizens ???????????? Right
 
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No one is saying there is no Al-Qaeda busy in terrorist activies and bomb blasts in Pakistan. They are and thats why we are fighting against them to save Pakistan as well as the World.

Look Jana, you must read the posts of not only Indians but also that of your country people.

Just for recall, there was a whole lot of confusion on this issue in one of the threads.

Though you are prone to flip flop, your posts are not the only one that I read. There are many others here too and I cannot discount what they say.


:what: where did i say that ????
I think you need specticals to read carefully.

Don't worry about my eyesight!

And it is time you get Windows savvy.

It has the facility to enlarge the words to suit the eyesight.

Therefore, it is another indication that you do not go into the depths of an issue and instead only skim the surface.


Where we said Muslims are not killing other Muslims??
And one more thing not only killing any Innocent Muslim but also any Innocent Human Being is not acceptable in Islam.
Further more its you who are in self-denial with regard to killing of Innocent Kashmiris by your immoral Indian Army.

Again, you are at your usual journalistic skills of feints. Or are you a footballer? Read what I wrote and corelate!


It was you who was talking about trudged through jungle trails. i was talking about use of Indian Airforce against Indian citizens and now its another matter if in India aircraft walk by foot instead of flying ;)

Well I could not write anything different about the terrain. That is how the terrain is as organised by the Creator. What did you expect me to write - that it is a cityscape?

I am sure it does not require even an iota of intelligence to know that aircrafts do not walk!

It is time you walk the walk!



If you can provide me the proof if Mehsud and his gangs are insurgents and
are busy for a separate country. Can you ?????????????????

Have I said that?

Please read the posts and not let your imagination violently grip you beyond the syntax used.



Sir i dint know that my face acts as a mirrior ;) if you had started seeing your reflection in me im honoured. :enjoy:

I beg your pardon. What are you implying?




OK so it means Sir Ray you are saying that People who were bombared by Indian Airforce in Mizoram were not Indian Citizens ???????????? Right

Indeed they were.

If one attacks, then is self defence incorrect?

It is not that it was being used in a seek and destroy mission. It was being used for close air support.

Even then, it was not right and hence it was never done again!

And it better not be done again as far as I am concerned!

It is the mind that has to be addressed.
 
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The riddle of Kashmir

While the relations between India and Pakistan are on the course of normalisation and the Kashmiri leadership is denouncing militancy as the means to achieve independence, Pakistan officially celebrated 5th February as Kashmir Solidarity Day. The ruling and opposition parties both held rallies. The official media presented special programs to highlight the sufferings of Kashmiris at the hands of `occupying` Indian forces. So, all went usual as is going since many a years. Where lies the difference, you have to take pains to find it out.


Kashmir issue is in the limelight since last a decade. Since the days the world has believed that India and Pakistan have got big bombs in their arsenals, Kashmir is being regarded as nuclear flashpoint. The recent missile race between the neighbours is enough to convince the world that if there is a war between India and Pakistan it would be over the Kashmir — it would be absolute in its scale as well causalities. The fallout will not be restricted to the South Asian region only. When Musharraf has gone for an out of the box solution, India has shown willingness to discuss them. "War is not a solution," the two sides agree.

Now the world knows how serious the Kashmir issue is. Though the peace process between the neighbours has introduced many CBMs, the language of the public media has not changed since last a decade. Each news bulletin of PTV and Radio Pakistan includes, "The Indian forces, as a manifestation of state terrorism, killed [so many] people in the valley". Foreign minister is another person who has got a special mission to forward the cause of Kashmiris. The president and the premier happen to tour foreign nations so frequently and they specially mention the Kashmir as the core issue between India and Pakistan — no trade till the issue is amicably resolved.

A powerful section of intelligentsia in Pakistan believes, rightly or wrongly, that if Kashmir goes in complete control of India, Pakistan will be deprived of the water that flows down through the valley. The Indus and its tributaries will be diverted from their due course. Pakistan has lost three rivers in result of the Indus Basin Treaty of 1960. Abandoning claims on Kashmir is just signing on the warrants of death. So Kashmir should become a part of Pakistan; if not, India should regard it as it a disputed entity.

What is the fall out of this approach towards Kashmir? It should be remembered that the policy-makers of Pakistan have regarded the Kashmir as the core issue and conditioned the regional trade with the resolution of this territorial dispute. People-to-people contacts have also been made hostage to this issue. Pakistan and India have fought three deadly wars while the third one with nuclear undertones is not even a remote possibility.

Is Kashmir basically a water dispute? If so, why Pakistan does not talk about water rather than the territory? Has India any right to divert the course of the three rivers that flow in its territory before entering into Pakistan? The fact of the matter is that Pakistani decision-makers think so. The same fear had led them to the signing of the Indus Basin Treaty. It was basically a compromise. Pakistan surrendered its rights on the use of the eastern rivers of Ravi, Beas and Sutlej in exchange of Indus, Jehlum and Chenab.

Had Pakistan really been interested in Kashmir, the independence leaders would have insisted on the plebiscite as the means of accession for the princely states. Rather, to the utter surprise of the Congress, the Muslim League insisted that the rulers should decide the fate of their states. Another opportunity came when Indian leadership expressed their desire to exchange Hyderabad with Kashmir. But the proposal was discarded on the plea that the region was nothing but a home to rugged mountains. What the Pakistani leadership thought was probably that Kashmir will fall in their lap like a ripen fruit.

The fact of the matter is that with the passage of time, Kashmir has been declared as a jugular vein of Pakistan. Huge national resources are consumed on diplomatic efforts to keep Kashmir issue alive. PTV and Radio Pakistan allot considerable time to highlight the atrocities of the Indian forces against the Kashmiris fighting for their just cause. Too the scale at which the rallies have been brought out in favour of Kashmiri`s cause, the matter goes beyond merely the public stunt.

Since General Musharraf is the most passionate advocate of the resolution of the Kashmir dispute between India and Pakistan, it is really surprising that neither the content of the official media nor the norms and practices of the government associated with the Kashmir issue have changed. The desire to have friendly relations between the neighbours is not being supported by the concrete measures to bring down the level of hatred among the people against the neighbour that has been injected in their minds during last half-a-century, can prove to be an important step towards this end but the matter has not gone beyond bringing about changes in the curricula of state-run educational institutions.

It is not understandable why General Musharraf taken a serious note of the implication of the propaganda by the state media against India. Too, it is not-so-wise to say that he has no control over the policies of PTV and Radio Pakistan. Similarly, Indians have never termed the electronic media policy of Pakistan as contradictory to the rhetoric of General Musharraf vis-à-vis having friendly relations with the neighbour. Probably they understand the complexity of the problem; the public sentiments take a time to subside down.

Last but not the least, the ARD stands opposed to the `out of box solution` approach of General Pervez Musharraf on Kashmir. It has openly supported the stance of Jamat –I-Islami that sees jihad as the only viable means to realise the goal of freedom for Kashmiris. That the opposition and the ruling camp have celebrated Kashmir Solidarity Day with renewed fervour is the proof that the whole nation supports the cause of Kashmiris. But the event, being celebrated for last half a decade, has got a different meaning this time. " Kashmir is a riddle that should be strengthened; it is not a problem to be resolved," says the lot opposed to General Pervez Musharraf.

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune
 
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