Kashmir and Indian Army

[sword9]

And Sword, when Indian TV shows the other side then you can criticize others for being one sided. I haven't seen any documentaries from Indian TV sources re: the civilians killed by the IA or police. I have access to Indian news here and have not seen any such programs.

Check NDTV reports, they have ripped apart the govt and security agencies for faults or high-handedness with regards to civilians.

Besides Sandra Jordan is the same chick who made videos of the american martyr in Palestine.

She has one agenda, dig up dirt. She has thrown enough on her own govt, the Israelis and now us.

 

[Introvert]

Check NDTV reports, they have ripped apart the govt and security agencies for faults or high-handedness with regards to civilians.

Besides Sandra Jordan is the same chick who made videos of the american martyr in Palestine.

She has one agenda, dig up dirt. She has thrown enough on her own govt, the Israelis and now us.

u r an Indian, y would u blame IA or Indian police, even after knowing the facts.

 

[Contrarian]

u r an Indian, y would u blame IA or Indian police, even after knowing the facts.

Why wouldnt we blame the army or police if it is wrong. That is why there are numerous reports on IA's bad handling of J&K situation many a times. There was a recent one in CNN-IBN, about this Kashmiri model, who went to bangladesh, had a very successful career there, till he was caught by Bangladeshi security agencies that he was a spy for India. When he came back to India, he was taken by the Indian security forces that he was a terrorist. He was kept in prison, till acquitted by court. It was a huge hangama here.

 

[Introvert]

Why wouldnt we blame the army or police if it is wrong. That is why there are numerous reports on IA's bad handling of J&K situation many a times. There was a recent one in CNN-IBN, about this Kashmiri model, who went to bangladesh, had a very successful career there, till he was caught by Bangladeshi security agencies that he was a spy for India. When he came back to India, he was taken by the Indian security forces that he was a terrorist. He was kept in prison, till acquitted by court. It was a huge hangama here.

I'm talking about fake encounter, rape, agression, torture etc.

 

[Bull]

I'm talking about fake encounter, rape, agression, torture etc.

U mean why we blame them after doing all these ? well they are not supposed to do that and it doesnt help India's matter either.

 

[Keysersoze]

Check NDTV reports, they have ripped apart the govt and security agencies for faults or high-handedness with regards to civilians.

Besides Sandra Jordan is the same chick who made videos of the american martyr in Palestine.

She has one agenda, dig up dirt. She has thrown enough on her own govt, the Israelis and now us.

Ok. well If there was no dirt to dig up then there would be no problem right? and lets take a look at the balance of things... I have not seen many people talk about his factor. As someone who has served, do you not realise that in order for
any insurgency to thrive that local support is required? If the locals are not being antagonized in some way or form. Then there would be no insurgency as most people want to live in peace. A fact that some people studiously avoid when looking at subjects like this.

A good example of this kind of tunnel vision (with which to compare this) would be the massacre in Sebrinica. (incorrect spelling!) Where the Serb people called it propaganda for years until the videos of people being murdered came to view.

Another would be the Bloody Sunday incident in Northern Ireland (plus various other activities by some of the security forces) which lengthened that situation by years.

 

[sword9]

I'm talking about fake encounter, rape, agression, torture etc.

Baazi,
Rapes are rare and may of those cases were found to be fake reports.

Fake encounters started when the militants started killing prosecution lawyers and judges who tried captured militants in court. The police out of frustration started their own summary execution, and unfortunatly may innocents have got caught up in the fray. But this will continue as long as the militants exist.

As for torture, have you ever carried out an interrogation..?

 

[Awesome]

and the police will be ever ready to "act" on video.

They are paid up civilians

ROFLMAO

Good one. It's original.

 

[Awesome]

taken from Adux's thread. It's about Fake encounters by the Kashmir police.

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/32555/slain-youths-body-exhumed-in-jk.html

 

[sword9]

Ok. well If there was no dirt to dig up then there would be no problem right? and lets take a look at the balance of things... I have not seen many people talk about his factor. As someone who has served, do you not realise that in order for any insurgency to thrive that local support is required?

If there is local support then, why is it only in the valley and not in other muslim majority parts of J&K like Poonch and Rajouri? Its where our counterparts concentrate that you have trouble.

If the locals are not being antagonized in some way or form. Then there would be no insurgency as most people want to live in peace. A fact that some people studiously avoid when looking at subjects like this.

There wil be police checks and army checks, and stopping for regular security checks is a irritant and if it is antagonising them then so be it. What ever is necessary for security will be done.

I was there in the valley in 1989 as a college student. There was no police of army presence. The jihadis have brought the army and police and not the other way around.

A good example of this kind of tunnel vision (with which to compare this) would be the massacre in Sebrinica. (incorrect spelling!) Where the Serb people called it propaganda for years until the videos of people being murdered came to view.

The so called atrocities in Kashmir are a far cry from what happened in Serbia. The issue have been addressed, there have been court-martials and inquiries for all complaints.

Last year there was a rape complaint against an army officer from a COIN battalion, later it was found to be false. This was discussed in this forum and another forum that I visit.

Another would be the Bloody Sunday incident in Northern Ireland (plus various other activities by some of the security forces) which lengthened that situation by years.

We have made mistakes too, but the insurgency in Kashmir is fanned fromn our west and not internally.

We have peacefull protests turning into mobs and police firing causing deaths, why because from the crowd someone opens fire and the police guys panic and return fire causing chaos. On he face of it it looks that the security forces guys had been brutal, but at the back of it all the deaths are of locals are by their own kith and kin.

My unit's vehicles never suffered an IED attacks in 3.5 years in J&K, because we always gave a lift to school going kids or locals. If they harmed us and the kids the militants would hae been finished.

 

[Keysersoze]

Baazi,
Rapes are rare and may of those cases were found to be fake reports.

The police out of frustration started their own summary execution,

Oh my god..........I am sorry but how the hell can you type that with a clear conscious? "summary executions" somehow don't strike me as being in any way legal. And I KNOW the security forces will screw things like that up on a regular basis.
As for the torture part lets not pull any punches here.......we both know what will happen........

 

[Keysersoze]

My unit's vehicles never suffered an IED attacks in 3.5 years in J&K, because we always gave a lift to school going kids or locals. If they harmed us and the kids the militants would hae been finished.

Some would regard that as using human shields..........

 

[Keysersoze]

We have made mistakes too, but the insurgency in Kashmir is fanned fromn our west and not internally.

I have heard this argument as well from other sources in other conflicts.....If it were the case it would be very easy to spot them.... And why would people support them if they had no base to draw from? Sorry but the old adage theres no smoke without fire has some basis here.

 

[Keysersoze]

Ok this is from Amnesty International.......


In the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, an estimated 8,000- 10,000 enforced disappearances have been reported since 1989. While fewer new cases are reported now, there is still no information about past cases.

 

[Keysersoze]

Although politically motivated violence has slightly decreased in Jammu and Kashmir, torture, deaths in custody and "disappearances" continue to be reported. At least 38 people are reported to have died in custody in 2005.

The vast majority of survivors of targeted killings and sexual violence in Gujarat in 2002 - most of them Muslim - have still not received justice and reparations for these crimes, some of which amount to crimes against humanity. In December 2005 a mass grave containing the remains of the victims was found. In February 2006, in a key case relating to the violence, nine persons were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. Amnesty International continues to receive reports of harassment of human rights defenders and the social and economic boycotting of the Muslim minority in Gujarat particularly after criminal convictions.

Members of the security forces continue to enjoy impunity for human rights violations. Nine years after the "disappearance" and killing of human rights lawyer Jalil Andrabi in Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir, an army major identified as responsible by a special investigation team has still not been brought to justice. In Punjab, police officers responsible for serious human rights violations in the mid-1990s continue to evade justice, despite the recommendations of several judicial inquiries and commissions.

Human rights defenders in many parts of the country continue to be harassed and attacked, including activists working on behalf of socially and economically marginalized communities. At least 77 people were sentenced to death in 2005; however, no executions took place. There is no comprehensive information on the number of people under sentence of death in each state. The central and state governments do not publish any information on the number of people under the sentence of death.

Although the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) was repealed more than a year ago, the cases of those held under the Act have not yet been fully reviewed, and some state governments have yet to take action on the recommendations by the judicial committee reviewing the cases. Human rights organizations have expressed concern over amendments made to the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act and state-level acts (especially in Chattisgarh state) which grant special powers to the state, similar to those previously provided by the POTA.

Amnesty International