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Kargil War 1999 - A Dedication

What was the purpose of "locking" on as the articles states? Is this a common method of "warning" the adversary?

Well... yes. as a first step, a lock on indicates that given all the probabilities and chances.. 80% say you will be shot down if you violate the border.
Next option is a warning shot that narrowly misses the target..
In this case though, with the heat on both sides.. a lock on was the final warning to the IAF jets being fired upon in case they crossed the border.

IAF mig-29's had multiple locks on PAF aircraft during the conflict from behind the border.. did not mean diddly squat in that scenario unless the PAF went after a IAF jet that violated the border.. then it would be interesting.
 
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Had Pak prime minister at the time had stood his ground the out come would have been the humiliating defeat for India.

But Indian have a nack for running and crying at the same time totheir western boses.

Most of the pakistani soldiers died returning as they were ordered and Indian were shoooting soldiers from behind, what a way to go india.

A cowardice act knowing that Soldiers donot shoot from behind when truce has been accepted by both sides.

Read Mushraf's book and learn the truth. Buddy shamefull act, but than India is known to be attack and kill unarmed and innocent.

In uprising in Pujab Indian Army killed in mock confrontations many innocents. and it goes on in Kashmir.

There is no evidence to support your claims. But their is plenty of evidence to show that Pakistani troops broke the GENEVA CONVENTION and fired at an IAF pilot who had ejected and shot out his parachute.




And in regards to the video- you are acknowledging now that these were Pakistani army? As you claimed before they were "freedom fighters" working independently with no help from Pakistani GOVT. If this isn't cowardice I don't know what is. stand up and fight toe-toe, this is proffesionalism, this is courage this is honour.

And why do you keep showing images of a fighter that crashed because of MECHANICAL FAILURE through no fault of Pakistan?
 
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ISLAMABAD: In what was a classic pre-dawn interception, air defence interceptors of the Pakistan Air Force, comprising of two PAF F-7MP fighter jets, intercepted and engaged intruding Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter jets which crossed the Line of Control in Jammu & Kashmir and violated Pakistan's airspace by several kilometres. The IAF fighters were believed to be two MiG-27ML ground-attack aircraft and two Mirage 2000H fighters providng top cover. The event took place in the early hours of Thursday, 8 July 1999, at approximately 2:30 a.m. (0230 hours) PST.

According to sources, PAF F-7MP fighters were supported by two F-16 Fighting Falcons providing back-up which conducted electronic jamming of the intruder IAF 'bandits'. The F-16s were scrambled whereas the F-7MPs were already on Combat Air Patrol (CAP) duty when the incursion occured.

The PAF F-7MP air defence interceptors were immediately vectored by GCI towards the intruding 'bandits' within seconds of their crossing into Pakistan airspace. The PAF fighters intercepted the Indian fighters and 'locked' on them with their missiles. In fighter terms, this is an invitation for a dogfight. However, the IAF fighters refused to engage in return and instead fled straight back into the airspace of Indian-held Kashmir in what PAF pilots perceived was sheer panic. "It was not a very orderly or dignified exit", remarked a PAF officer.

According to PAF sources, even the Dynamic Launch Zone (DLZ) perimetres had been met for launching of the air-to-air missiles which means that the PAF pilots had gotten the AAM tone indicating the bandits were well within shoot-down range of the PAF fighters. A missile tone is achieved when the missile's infrared heat-seeker or its radar has picked up the hostile aircraft. "It looks as if we gave them a fright", says a PAF officer, "Their RWR signal would have been blasting off in the cockpits as our interceptors tracked them". If the missiles were short-range heat-seeking missiles, then this would imply that the distance between the PAF and the IAF fighters was less than 10 kilometres - "Too close for comfort", as the PAF officer remarked.

PAF fighters did not shoot down the Indian fighters even though they were within range of the air-to-air missiles of the PAF fighters. The Indian fighters were perilously close to the Line of Control and their wreckage may have fallen inside Indian-held Kashmir territory which, going by their track record, would have given the Indian authorities the opportunity to blame the PAF for the intrusion.

According to the PAF Rules of Engagement (ROE), three conditions have to be met in peacetime before an enemy aircraft can be shot down: (i) the enemy aircraft must violate Pakistan's airspace; (ii) it must be a combat aircraft and (iii) its wreckage must fall inside Pakistani territory. 'Peacetime' in the context of India and Pakistan means when no war has been declared.

In this instance, the third criterion may not have been met as the IAF fighters were too close to the LoC and their wreckage may have fallen on either side of the LoC.

"All the intruder Indian fighters fled when our our air defence fighters locked on them", said a PAF officer.

A second intrusion occured seven and a half hours later, at approximately 10:00 a.m. (1000 hours) PST, when two IAF fighter jets violated Pakistan's airspace in the Mushkoh-Olding sector in Jammu & Kashmir. Two F-7MPs were immediately scrambled from a forward PAF air base to intercept the two intruders. However, the IAF jets sensing the PAF fighters fast approaching them, turned back and fled into Indian-held Kashmir before the PAF interceptors could get a missile lock-on them.

In both cases, the IAF intruders had taken off from Srinagar air base, according to PAF GCI controllers.

This part has been take from blog of Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail.
clearly it gives a better and realistic view of things than the self -appraising article you have posted , which can be seen as an effort by PAF to redeem itself of the sharp criticism of its inaction during Kargil.
And conveniently the author has forgetten to mention the BVR capability that IAF had at that time.

The over-arching consideration was the BVR missile capability of IAF fighters which impinged unfavourably on the mission success probability. The conclusion was that a replication of the famous four-Vampire rout of 1st September 1965 by two Sabres might not be possible. The idea of a fighter sweep thus fizzled out as quickly as it came up for discussion.
While the PAF looked at some offensive options, it had a more pressing defensive issue at hand. The IAF’s minor border violations during recce missions were not of grave consequence in so far as no bombing had taken place in our territory; however, the fact that these missions helped the enemy refine its air and artillery targeting, was, to say the least, disconcerting. There were constant reports of our troops on the LOC disturbed to see, or hear, IAF fighters operating with apparent impunity. The GHQ took the matter up with the AHQ and it was resolved that Combat Air Patrols (CAPs) would be flown by the F-16s operating out of Minhas (Kamra) and Sargodha. This arrangement resulted in less on-station time but was safer than operating out of vulnerable Skardu, which had inadequate early warning in the mountainous terrain; its status as a turn-around facility was, however, considered acceptable for its location. A flight of F-7s was, nonetheless, deployed primarily for point defence of the important garrison town of Skardu as well as the air base.
Aeronaut: Kargil Conflict and Pakistan Air Force
 
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Kargil was a TACTICAL & PSYCOLOGICAL victory for Pak. It demoralized Indian Army.
In 1965 India suffered similar humiliation. In 1965 India didn't even recover from 1962 onslaught from Red Dragon.
 
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There is no evidence to support your claims. But their is plenty of evidence to show that Pakistani troops broke the GENEVA CONVENTION and fired at an IAF pilot who had ejected and shot out his parachute.


Would you be so kind to share this “plenty of evidence”?
I hope you wont link a blog from someone who doesn’t even have a clue about the place or the conflict or someone who is simply theorizing it.

I know so well how it works. Someone writes an article based on assumptions and his opinions (not necessarily backed by evidence) and then someone “reputable” (government/ major news network) picks it up, polishes and re-brands and sells it as proof . If you don’t understand what I am talking about then read about the origin of Iraqi dossier and how Washington and New York post were fed by the US government to build up the case for war (and now they are struggling to win back the reader’s confidence). Closer to your home is that “News of the world” story.i.e. When it comes to the News media and governments, sadly “honesty is the second best policy” or not at all (that too if the truth comes out eventually).

Lets agree on one thing here, shell we? Avoid using subjective and arbitrary terms when talking about something so serious

I normally bypass the following terms when someone makes a claim with prefixes like;

Everyone knows
Plenty of evidence
Countless times


If there is indeed some substance in the story, I take a view and decide. otherwise I don’t even bother reading any further if its just another opinionated blog.

let me clarify that I also consider it immoral to shoot a bailed out pilot who is effectively a PoW.






1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.

3. Airborne troops are not protected by this Article.



Now lets analyse the death of Squadron Leader Ajay Ahuja., when his Mig 21 was shutdown by the Pakistani air defence.

He was the escort of Mig 27 being flown by Flight lieutenant Nachiketa who was shot down (other accounts suggests engine flameout) and as Ajay made a pass to investigate around the wreckage of Nachi’s plane he was shot down too.

From here there are two differing counts, Indians allege that he was shot and killed after he had ejected from his plane. They base that on the post-mortem carried out after his body was returned to India. (what remains unclear is that whether his body was handed over directly or via Red cross?)

India termed it a cold blooded murder and a war crime and lodged protest with the Pakistani diplomat in Delhi during the Kargil conflict.

The Pakistan Army spokesman Brig Rashid Qurashi (later on Major General) at that time rubbished the Indian claim saying that a high ranking pilot was of much greater value alive than dead and it made no sense for any regular army to murder a POW, he gave the example of flight Lieutenant Nachiketa who was amply looked after and was visited by ICRC during his 8 days in Pakistan.

Under the circumstances, the first and second rules apply (with a condition) that after bailing out, during his decent and after landing he didn’t engage in any hostile act against the Pakistani troops. If he didn’t in both cases (decent & landing) then he had immunity and his death would have been a war crime and breach of the protocol I, Article 42 of Geneva conventions.

I must admit that I am not aware that IAF pilots carry side arms as a part of their combat suit when flying. All other Air force pilots do to prepare for a scenario where they are downed and have to wait for the rescue team or plan their own independent escape. So I can only assume if just like PAF pilots, if Squadron Leader Ajay also had a weapon and engaged with the Pakistani troops then they had the right to kill him. Even having a weapon on him was enough for the ROE to shoot him, similar to US military ROE if the subject has a weapon on him then he needs to be stopped with deadly force.
There have been many such accounts that have been even captured in Holy wood blockbusters where the Iraqi soldier or soldiers although apparently coming out of their bunkers to surrender were still carrying their AK-47s and were shot dead by the approaching American soldiers because they took a view that these guys wanted to continue to fight.

Gaurdian quotes Qurashi as saying that Pakistani soldiers only opened up fire once they themselves came under fire.


I was in Islamabad at that time and was eagerly following the story of these two planes that were shot down. There were rumours flying about the circumstances under which Ajay died, claiming that he was refusing to surrender and even managed to kill or injure some troops until they pinned him down and killed him in retaliation. Again there was no official explanation or proof about what happened.



The third rule doesn’t apply to him as he was not part of any paratroopers assigned to airdrop and engage in confrontation with the enemy after landing.


As for Nachiketa, he parachuted safely was taken prisoner by the Pakistani patrol and flown to Skardu and was kept under the conditions that far exceed the regulations regarding the treatment of POWs..

Once his initial interrogations were done, he had same privileges as an officer (under captivity) being kept in officers mess and was looked after by the staff detailed for him. He was handed over to Red Cross authorities in Pakistan and eventually he was repatriated with India.

Finally I must say, We all are free to make our judgements although they might be affected by our affiliations and our opinions which is understandable but we shouldn’t loose the sight for finding out the truth. Sadly no one perused this case and the circumstances remain a mystery and counts doubtful and contested by either parties. what could have helped was if Pakistani authorities had conducted their own post -mortem and shared with the Red cross before handing the body over to India.
If indeed there was some foul play involved then Pakistan would have simply expressed inability to produce the body blaming the difficult terrain and termed him as MPD (missing presumed dead).

The only closure to this event, for the sake of the family of SL Ajay is that there is an independent commission setup that is agreed upon by both governments or India makes a formal complaint in the UN sends in a team which interviews the people, checks the post mortem reports and makes the decision about it. Without the body it might be inconclusive but the Pakistani soldiers that were involved in engaging with Ajay or bringing back his body might help the investigators with reaching a verdict.
 
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Had Pak prime minister at the time had stood his ground the out come would have been the humiliating defeat for India.

But Indian have a nack for running and crying at the same time totheir western boses.

Most of the pakistani soldiers died returning as they were ordered and Indian were shoooting soldiers from behind, what a way to go india.

A cowardice act knowing that Soldiers donot shoot from behind when truce has been accepted by both sides.

Read Mushraf's book and learn the truth. Buddy shamefull act, but than India is known to be attack and kill unarmed and innocent.

In uprising in Pujab Indian Army killed in mock confrontations many innocents. and it goes on in Kashmir.

Must not invent stories with vivid imagination and fantasy to salve your grieving heart!
 
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Why not also mention the fact that Pakistan lost 3,000+ troops against India's ~500 during the Kargil war? Why not also mention the fact that India regained 80% of Kargil before Clinton administration even held a formal meeting with Pakistan's Nawaz Sharif?

Anyone can make such videos with half truth. Grow up and face the reality.

where do you get your reality from...."The hindu",,,"Times of india",,,"NDTV"??????? OR other indian news source that strive to lessen the infeority complex and insecurity of indians by feeding them propaganda? :rolleyes:
 
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where do you get your reality from...."The hindu",,,"Times of india",,,"NDTV"??????? OR other indian news source that strive to lessen the infeority complex and insecurity of indians by feeding them propaganda? :rolleyes:

Which is the credible source sir? Pakistan school syllabus? Or a newspaper called Daawa e Woqt or something?

Please enlighten us with the history sir.
 
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