Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's torture: Violations by Pakistan unacceptable

[KRAIT]

I ask for proofs and you giving me rhetorics- these usual rant are getting boring now-

"In war sh!t happens- i bet those so called soldiers were mujahideens- "

"Yup like you got concrete proof they were Pak army soldiers- "

These are called rhetoric. And same old Pakistan's explanation, Where are the proofs ?

Like they will accept anything against their beloved army. As I said nothing will happen. India is too confused regarding Pakistan and Pakistan will never accept anything even if entire world provides them proof.

So needless discussion.

 

[Armstrong]

"In war sh!t happens- i bet those so called soldiers were mujahideens- "

"Yup like you got concrete proof they were Pak army soldiers- "

These are called rhetoric. And same old Pakistan's explanation, Where are the proofs ?

Like they will accept anything against their beloved army. As I said nothing will happen. India is too confused regarding Pakistan and Pakistan will never accept anything even if entire world provides them proof.

So needless discussion.

Khochaa kar keh tou deikhooo ! Until now its either snippets of rhetoric in the media or a dossier that can't be publicly disclosed or given to a 3rd party for arbitration that we've got to work with.

 

[KRAIT]

Khochaa kar keh tou deikhooo ! Until now its either snippets of rhetoric in the media or a dossier that can't be publicly disclosed or given to a 3rd party for arbitration that we've got to work with.

Exactly. India should don't even try to do anything. It will always end up in another Kargil in future.

I just hope India becomes indifferent regarding Pakistan and stop thinking about what and how Pakistan will react. Expecting from a nation who can't even get rid of terrorists working against themselves, to get rid of terrorists against India and violation of Geneva conventions even after what we have seen in past, Indians are still foolish enough to expect some change.

What did we get after providing proofs against 26/11, dossiers after dossiers, nothing, zero, nada. Why Indians think they will get some justice regarding this issue.

As someone said, Sh!t happens in war, let it be.

 

[JonAsad]

"In war sh!t happens- i bet those so called soldiers were mujahideens- "

"Yup like you got concrete proof they were Pak army soldiers- "

These are called rhetoric. And same old Pakistan's explanation, Where are the proofs ?

Like they will accept anything against their beloved army. As I said nothing will happen. India is too confused regarding Pakistan and Pakistan will never accept anything even if entire world provides them proof.

So needless discussion.

Yeah nothing will happen- these things every now and then do pop up for mass consuption-
The hatred has to be renewed every now and then- and whats the better way to incite by mentioning past incidents-

Its like a constant dose of hatred fed like medication- and yeah you people are getting addicted to it-

Let the elections season go- and Aman ki asha efforts will appear again-

 

[Armstrong]

Exactly. India should don't even try to do anything. It will always end up in another Kargil in future.

I just hope India becomes indifferent regarding Pakistan and stop thinking about what and how Pakistan will react. Expecting from a nation who can't even get rid of terrorists working against themselves, to get rid of terrorists against India and violation of Geneva conventions even after what we have seen in past, Indians are still foolish enough to expect some change.

What did we get after providing proofs against 26/11, dossiers after dossiers, nothing, zero, nada. Why Indians think they will get some justice regarding this issue.

As someone said, Sh!t happens in war, let it be.

One would be justified in asking why do you not take us to the ICJ with that dossier ? We've examined & it doesn't hold in the court of law for us.

For every Geneva Convention violation allegedly pinned to Pakistan's head we've got our stories too ! For every so called terrorists against India we've got our narrative too !

Why Indian's think that chest thumping by some politicians of theirs in the media solely for public consumption translates into 'irrefutable evidence' escapes me too !

 

[KRAIT]

Yeah nothing will happen- these things every now and then do pop up for mass consuption-
The hatred has to be renewed every now and then- and whats the better way to incite by mentioning past incidents-
Its like a constant dose of hatred fed like medication- and yeah you people are getting addicted to it-

Mentioning past ? You will understand the pain of that father once you have become a parent. Its about the justice that a father is seeking for his son who gave his life for his country and the enemy crossed all boundaries of humanity even when India gave safe passage to 90,000 Pakistani soldiers without a single casualty.

This raises question in every Indian's mind, why we have to behave like humans to those who don't understand humanity.

I know its constant dose of hatred as viewed by you and I don't doubt your conclusion as you know the best about constant dose of hatred.

Again, a useless thread as no party will accept each other's points and arguments. Same old blame game will keep on happening. I know what points are going to be introduced in this thread in coming posts. And we have discussed them to the death without any conclusion, just few pink slips and infractions.

 

[KRAIT]

One would be justified in asking why do you not take us to the ICJ with that dossier ? We've examined & it doesn't hold in the court of law for us.
For every Geneva Convention violation allegedly pinned to Pakistan's head we've got our stories too ! For every so called terrorists against India we've got our narrative too !
Why Indian's think that chest thumping by some politicians of theirs in the media solely for public consumption translates into 'irrefutable evidence' escapes me too !

Like I said your best defense has been your narrative towards militancy in Kashmir regarded as freedom movement.

When I talk about apples, you start about oranges. its a never ending procedure.

This thread started with Kargil soldier's torture, you will bring Kashmir insurgency, some Indian will bring 26/11 and HS, you will say he is innocent and bring Baluchistan and we will go back to 1999, 1971, 1965, 1948 and 1000 years of Muslim rule. Its the characteristics of such type of threads.

Meanwhile various conspiracy theories involving RAW, CIA, MOSSAD will also be presented by few posters and others will bring OBL etc. Same old blame game with no meaningful discussion.

So I think its better MODs close this thread. Nothing better will come out from it.

 

[chauvunist]

What your Army did to Sipahi Maqbool Hussain was not only cruel but also Shameful...i think we should file a case against Indian Army if this uses to be the criteria for petition of cases....He was continuously tortoured for a good part of his life....

 

[Armstrong]

Like I said your best defense has been your narrative towards militancy in Kashmir regarded as freedom movement.

When if talk about apples, you start about oranges. its a never ending procedure.

This thread started with Kargil soldier's torture, you will bring Kashmir insurgency, some Indian will bring 26/11 and HS, you will say he is innocent, and bring Baluchistan and we will go back to 1999, 1971, 1965, 1948 and 1000 yers of Muslim rule. Its the characteristics of such type of threads.

Meanwhile various conspiracy theories involving RAW, CIA, MOSSAD will also be presented by few posters and others will bring OBL etc. Same old blame game with no meaningful discussion.

So I think its better MODs close this thread. Nothing better will come out from it.

You have grown wise young one ! This is the reason why I left commenting on these threads in my first 3 months on PDF because we're all right & the others wrong...always !

P.S I didn't mean that 'narrative' but an overarching 'narrative' of events.

P.P.S For every Saurabh Kalia we've got Maqbool Hussains so lets not stir up a hornet's nest here.

 

[JonAsad]

Mentioning past ? You will understand the pain of that father once you have become a parent. Its about the justice that a father is seeking for his son who gave his life for his country and the enemy crossed all boundaries of humanity even when India gave safe passage to 90,000 Pakistani soldiers without a single casualty.

This raises question in every Indian's mind, why we have to behave like humans to those who don't understand humanity.

I know its constant dose of hatred as viewed by you and I don't doubt your conclusion as you know the best about constant dose of hatred.

Again, a useless thread as no party will accept each other's points and arguments. Same old blame game will keep on happening. I know what points are going to be introduced in this thread in coming posts. And we have discussed them to the death without any conclusion, just few pink slips and infractions.

Exactly you dont have to-
It will be honest if atleast indians here come with their original skin- the sheep skin is getting predictable-

Well i wish if him luck in proving that they were Pakistani soldiers- although i doubt there will be any issue over establishing Pakistani soldier part- the actual issue is apology-

A soldiers father should have known better and accept his sons fate in war- and his contribution to his country-
Draggin does not seem honory--

What your Army did to Sipahi Maqbool Hussain was not only cruel but also Shameful...i think we should file a case against Indian Army if this uses to be the criteria for petition of cases....He was continuously tortoured for a good part of his life....

Lol- and they talk about geneva- hypocrites-

 

[janon]

One would be justified in asking why do you not take us to the ICJ with that dossier ? We've examined & it doesn't hold in the court of law for us.

For every Geneva Convention violation allegedly pinned to Pakistan's head we've got our stories too ! For every so called terrorists against India we've got our narrative too !

Why Indian's think that chest thumping by some politicians of theirs in the media solely for public consumption translates into 'irrefutable evidence' escapes me too !

Which part of it do you want to dispute? That he was tortured to death? Or that it was done by pak army and not just mujahideens?

For the first question, there was the mutilated body handed over by pak to India. That's irrefutable proof, he didn't die from cancer.

Is it the second question? Then it would be impossible to prove, since pak army and govt have been in denial even about their involvement (and failure) in the war. You didn't even acknowledge that your soldiers took part in the war, and until 8 or 10 years later you didn't even put up an official list of the soldiers who died. You kept asking for "proof" of your soldiers involvement, after giving them a few nishan e haiders. So it is unlikely we would ever settle the question of whether it was your army or your mujahideen. But do such distinctions matter to Indians, do you think? As far as we are concerned, he was tortured and killed by Pakistanis. Mujahideen and soldiers are both from Pakistani society, a product of your nation, both working together with the same goal. The only reason you call them "mujahideen" and refuse to call them soldiers is because your state wants plausible deniability, and want to make your society less guilty than it is. As I asked before, are people who call themselves "mujahideen" exempt from these codes of honor that humans have decided upon? Many PDFites are proud of your so called "mujahideens", who they think are fighting in some noble cause against India. If you agree with their existence, shouldn't you also hold them responsible for atrocities?

 

[arbit]

Painful topic. We should do what we ought to do and take this matter up the ICJ. whats the worst can happen? No action? Nothing is happening even now.

We should talk in a language our adversaries understand and these arguments as our army being professionals usually come from people who don't understand war. Inculcating fear is an important part of psychological warfare which is fought in parallel to the war at the front.

 

[Armstrong]

Which part of it do you want to dispute? That he was tortured to death? Or that it was done by pak army and not just mujahideens?

For the first question, there was the mutilated body handed over by pak to India. That's irrefutable proof, he didn't die from cancer.

Is it the second question? Then it would be impossible to prove, since pak army and govt have been in denial even about their involvement (and failure) in the war. You didn't even acknowledge that your soldiers took part in the war, and until 8 or 10 years later you didn't even put up an official list of the soldiers who died. You kept asking for "proof" of your soldiers involvement, after giving them a few nishan e haiders. So it is unlikely we would ever settle the question of whether it was your army or your mujahideen. But do such distinctions matter to Indians, do you think? As far as we are concerned, he was tortured and killed by Pakistanis. Mujahideen and soldiers are both from Pakistani society, a product of youir antion, both working together with the same goal. The only reason you call them "mujahideen" and refuse to call them soldiers is because your state wants plausible deniability, and want to make your society less guilty than it is. As I asked before, are people who call themselves "mujahideen" exempt from these codes of honor that humans have decided upon? Many PDFites are proud of your so called "mujahideens", who they think are fighting in some noble cause against India. If you agree with their existence, shouldn't you also hold them responsible for atrocities?

Is there any proof of us torturing him ? Is there any proof of the Mujahideen torturing him ? Is there any proof of the Indians themselves tinkering with the body ? No ! Is there anything to substantiate the mutilations - A word used by you guys ! No !

If you still think you've got a case - Take us to International Court of Justice !

 

[ares]

In war sh!t happens- i bet those so called soldiers were mujahideens-

That is a BS argument ..since tortured remains Indian soldiers were returned by Pakistan army and not some Mujaheddin militia.

Indian army does not hold flag meeting with Mujaheddin for exchange of prisoners or the dead

 

[janon]

Is there any proof of us torturing him ? Is there any proof of the Mujahideen torturing him ? Is there any proof of the Indians themselves tinkering with the body ? No ! Is there anything to substantiate the mutilations - A word used by you guys ! No !

If you still think you've got a case - Take us to International Court of Justice !

Ok, so how did he die in your custody? Dengue fever?

Or are you denying that he was ever in Pakistani custody? I want to see how far this denial goes.