Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's torture: Violations by Pakistan unacceptable

[JonAsad]

U know it very well Mujahideens weren't involved in the kargil operations . So presence of any mujaheddin is out question.

What they did to that 22 year boy and his platoon was barbaric and revels the extent of hatred PA holds for Indian army.

These are people who we treated humanely when we had 93000 oft them in our custody.

Well if the basics are not right- we cant discuss things further- -

 

[arp2041]

Setback for Kargil hero, govt unlikely to drag Pakistan to international court

In a setback to Kargil War hero Lt Saurabh Kalia’s family, who want India to take up his alleged death-by-torture in 1999 with Pakistan, sources on Wednesday said that while the government sympathises with the family, the case to drag Pakistan to an international body is a non-starter.

India is not a member of the International Criminal Court and therefore does not recognise its jurisdiction, the sources said. Even if India does move the court, going by precedents, it is most likely that the court will throw out the case if Pakistan does not agree to become a party.

For the record, Pakistan has denied its Army tortured the officer and Indian jawans. Sources said that moving the United Nations could prove counter productive as Pakistan can raise India’s human rights record on Kashmir.

The family of Lt Kalia moved the Supreme Court and vowed to keep on fighting till justice was done. It’s been 13 years since Lt Kalia’s body was found mutilated and bearing torture marks after he was captured during the war.

The family wants India to move the International Court of Justice (ICJ) against Pakistan, something the government had promised to do but failed to take up for 13 longs years. Left with no other resort, Lt Kalia’s family has taken its battle to the country’s highest court.

The government of India is expected to watch the proceedings in the Supreme Court and reach out to the Lieutenant’s family. India may take up the case with Pakistan afresh during routine bilateral consultations.

Meanwhile, the Kargil hero’s family has also demand action against Pakistan for violating Geneva Convention. They also want prosecution of the then Pakistani Army chief General Pervez Musharraf for war crimes.

Lt Saurabh Kalia belonged to the 4 Jat Regiment and was the first Indian Army officer to observe and report large-scale intrusion of Pakistani Army and foreign mercenaries on the Indian side of LoC in Kargil. Lt Kalia and his men were captured on May 15, 1999 and were in captivity for over 22 days. Lt Kalia’s body was later handed over to the Indian authorities on June 9, 1999.

Meanwhile, Pakistani Defence Analyst retired Brigadier Shaukat Qadir said that justice must be done if the facts are verified. “We in Pakistan are not aware of this having happened. If the facts are correct then one thing seems peculiar which is that if the Pakistan soldiers have tortured him why should they hand the body back? Having said that, if these facts are indeed correct then I think that they are well within their rights to seek some kind of justice and go wherever they want to seek whatever justice. If this is true then the Pakistan authorities must apologise and they must seek an apology – they are well within their rights to do so.”

It is very important to underscore at this point, while Lt Saurabh Kalia and other captured Indian soldiers met a violent death after repeatedly being tortured in Pakistan, the Indian army gave Pakistan’s soldiers a funeral with full military honours. Islamabad though had claimed those were bodies of insurgents and not its soldiers.

Setback for Kargil hero, govt unlikely to drag Pakistan to international court | idrw.org

@Indians, why blaming Pak when our very own govt. lacks the courage to do the right thing???

 

[vsdoc]

@Indians, why blaming Pak when our very own govt. lacks the courage to do the right thing???

Exactly.

Lets play cricket.

Good news!

We suck at that too.

 

[janon]

Well if the basics are not right- we cant discuss things further- -

He is wrong and you are right about that point, mujahideen were involved. Which is another violation of the laws of war, which states that only uniformed soldiers wearing distinctive uniforms recognizable from far off should engage in combat (hague convention of 1907, Geneva convention of 1949).

If your non uniformed mujahideen was waging war against India, it was the duty of the Pakistani state to put an end to it, not to fight alongside with them, making them bear all the responsibility for defeat as well as torture. It is a sad fact of your country's existence that your armed forces are inadequate or afraid to wage war on behalf of the country, and have to leave it to non uniformed jehadis. Sad fact, as well as a violation of all accepted international laws.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Which rules? You can gun down and enemy soldier- blast him- knife him to death- yes some are tortured- even amrika the founder is in violation of many POW rights- Guantanamo Bay- Water boarding and what not-

In the end in a war we all are hatred laden human beings- some surrender- some are shot while surrendering- Human history is full of such bloody inhumane behavior called the War-

Whats the dignity in killing some one?- Fighting for a cause and you will be dead- some die instantly- some die a slow painful death- some survive to live the rest of their misery disabled-

Historically we are good at each other POW's- few bad incidents here and there doesn't mean we are unprofessional lunatics- while the saints like you fire tranquilizer darts to win battles-

In the end it was a war and in war sh!t happened from both sides-

His son died for his country this is an honor in itself- what more honor you can do to the dead soldier- I am sure he is in peace that he died for his country- what his father trying to do is dishonoring his sacrifice-

You seem to have no idea about "Geneva convention". There is an international law about how to treat a captured soldier.

 

[janon]

You seem to have no idea about "Geneva convention". There is an international law about how to treat a captured soldier.

The Geneva conventions are just one of many international laws about enemy soldiers that pak is a signatory to, but don't think necessary to follow. Some of them are even asking "what rules", like the poster you quoted. Sad that some people are so lawless that they are ignorant even about the existence of laws.

 

[JonAsad]

You seem to have no idea about "Geneva convention". There is an international law about how to treat a captured soldier.

Yeah ofcourse-

and we showed to to you by returning the downed pilot during Kargil-
We showed it to you by returning the pilot with the heli just recently-

Geneva we are following you-

Does the mujahideen follow this- go ask them- -

 

[Hellraiser007]

The Geneva conventions are just one of many international laws about enemy soldiers that pak is a signatory to, but don't think necessary to follow. Some of them are even asking "what rules", like the poster you quoted. Sad that some people are so lawless that they are ignorant even about the existence of laws.

Very true mate. Even between bitter enemies there are laws to follow during, Pakistani soldiers in 1999 even crossed that mark.

Yeah ofcourse-

and we showed to to you by returning the downed pilot during Kargil-
We showed it to you by returning the pilot with the heli just recently-

Geneva we are following you-

Does the mujahideen follow this- go ask them- -

Pakistani govt. should take responsibility of this incident and probe it and do necessary actions.

 

[janon]

Yeah ofcourse-

and we showed to to you by returning the downed pilot during Kargil-
We showed it to you by returning the pilot with the heli just recently-

Geneva we are following you-

Does the mujahideen follow this- go ask them- -

It's YOUR duty to ask them since they are YOUR people. How many times should I repeat this? The very existence of non uniformed mujahideens on the battlefield is a failure by pakistan, that itself is a violation of the Geneva conventions by the pak army and state.

We don't bother to converse with the mujahids that come to our country in violation of laws - we send them to mass graves to lie unwept, unhonored and unknown. You should be the ones talking to your mujahids, who are your people about their existence and international laws. Or keep brainwashing and sending tem to India to meet an unceremonious death.

"The mujahids did it, not me" doesn't excuse the responsibility of the Pakistani people, to either put an end to these groups instead of nurturing them, or to accept responsibility for what they do.

Try to grow an army that can fight wars for you, instead of sending non uniformed jehadis, because the army is afraid to try to steal the neighbor's lands.

 

[Spring Onion]

U know it very well Mujahideens weren't involved in the kargil operations . So presence of any mujaheddin is out question.

Manas i would have believed this if i dint know the facts personally.

i personally feel with few days of training i repeat FEW days of training these Mujahideen did pretty better keeping in view the casualties on both sides

Now you are clutching at straws and spewing the same fiction that your country always makes to justify your coveting our lands. If pressed further, I am sure you would show me links from websites like "greaterkashmir" like another Pakistani did a few pages earlier. Just as you said that the pak army doesn't need to torture a captured PoW (and I agree), Indian army doesn't need to torture or murder or rape people of Indian Kashmir, who are as much Indians as anybody else.

No i would like to change the taste for sake of your twisting


Kashmir graves: Human Rights Watch calls for inquiry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14660253

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5yROpqzQE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAQDhFQxVtk

No, your mujahids don't come here because their parents were raped by the Indian army. In fact most of the infiltrators we have sent to mass graves recently are Punjabi youths from Pakistan. They come here because at a young age they buy into this fiction that older people like yourself propogate about the slaughter of muslims by india in Kashmir and so on. When the reality is that, as I said before, the Indian army has shed its costly blood to ensure peace and prosperity for Indian kashmiris from Pakistani terrorists and insurgents. When most of the infantry regiments deployed on the frontlines are kashmiris, and kashmiris make up a big proportion of the indian infantry. (There are at least three regiments in the Indian army with majority kashmiris, while there is only one from the entire south India.)

There are No terrorists when it comes to Kashmir. Only Kashmiris who are trying to free their country of Indian Terrorists' occupation

 

[arp2041]

Exactly.

Lets play cricket.

Good news!

We suck at that too.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

Our peaks are captured in Kargil & 700+ IA soldiers died in breach of Lahore/Shimla agreement, Let's play cricket.

Our Parliament, the symbol of world's largest democracy is attacked, Let's play cricket.

Our Financial capital's lifeline - Local trains are attacked killing 100s, Let's play cricket.

Our Financial capital is attacked again, this time in a sort of commando operation killing 166, Let's play cricket.

This & no. of times others our cities are at the receiving end of terrorist attacks & our Govt. can only say - Let's play cricket.

I think Mr. Sharad Pawar is more than just the minister of agriculture

 

[Sashan]

@Indians, why blaming Pak when our very own govt. lacks the courage to do the right thing???

The ICC court itself was controversially setup by various nations and India is not a party to this court(unlike ICJ). If India attempts taking this case to ICC and being a party to it, it has wide ramifications in that ICC will start to claim jurisdiction for various cases involving Kashmir, Northeast or even on war on Maoists and any non-Indian parties can drag India to this court.

 

[janon]

There are No terrorists when it comes to Kashmir. Only Kashmiris who are trying to free their country of Indian Terrorists' occupation

What did ajmal kasab come here for? Was he a terrorist? Did he come because he brought into your tales of how Indian army kills muslims in Kashmir etc etc, or was he there on holiday?

We don't care anymore when you keep denying that there are terrorists trained in Pakistan by Pakistanis. Our job is to send them to their deaths, bury them in unmarked graves and let them fertilise our soils. You can keep ignoring the terrorists and pretending they don't exist - its your society that pays the price for that.

 

[Manas]

Manas i would have believed this if i dint know the facts personally.

i personally feel with few days of training i repeat FEW days of training these Mujahideen did pretty better keeping in view the casualties on both sides

Mujahideen didn't have the expertise to fight at the kargil heaghts. Even Musharff would your views amusing.





Indian Army Raped Two More Kashmiri Women - YouTube

There are No terrorists when it comes to Kashmir. Only Kashmiris who are trying to free their country of Indian Terrorists' occupation[/QUOTE]

Yaa carry on , but after medical exams of the two of the socalled rape victims bodies by doctors from AIIMs ,New Delhi , one of them found to be a virgin . The other one was an married woman.

 

[Spring Onion]

The ICC court itself was controversially setup by various nations and India is not a party to this court(unlike ICJ). If India attempts taking this case to ICC and being a party to it, it has wide ramifications in that ICC will start to claim jurisdiction for various cases involving Kashmir, Northeast or even on war on Maoists and any non-Indian parties can drag India to this court.

And the moral of the story is you are standing on a sloopy ground yourself hence dont try to tilt the ground on others.