Kargil : Indian Army's operation "Vijay" was ineffective

[lightoftruth]

The best factors of Kargil Ops were secrecy of plan with in own quarters and movement of troops which nobody noticed.

Yup, even pakistani PM didn't knew what Pakistan Army was doing.......

Quite secrecy

Bhai, wasting too much time on them

These folks are not aware of history of Kargil, had they known, they wouldn't be so insecure about it

Pak army has had tradition of poor performance in Kargil since start of India-Pakistan conflicts

First loss in 1948

They lost at Kargil during Ran of Kutch escalation

INDIA-PAKISTAN CHRONOLOGY SINCE BEGINNING OF RANN OF KUTCH DISPUTE IN JANUARY



Lost at Kargil again in 1965 war

View attachment 754055

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80B01676R000300150014-0.pdf

and permanently in 1971 war
View attachment 754056

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85T00875R001100130042-6.pdf

1999 was merely Pak army having nostalgia to events before


Pak army futile effort at Kargil remind me of this quote

" Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results "

Nicely Compiled.

 

[drunken-monke]

If anyone won militarily it would be Pakistan.

yes by not accepting their martyred soldiers

 

[Tornado23]

yes by not accepting their martyred soldiers

We have but have you?

Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC

The disclosure of information related to casualties suffered by army during Kargil war and number of terrorists killed cannot be made public, Central Information Commission has held in an order 14 years after the war.

zeenews.india.com

 

[Windjammer]

Yup, even pakistani PM didn't knew what Pakistan Army was doing.......

Quite secrecy

Alas, show the Indians right hand and smack them with left.....ouch.
He just visited the LOC at the time to see the guns blasting the Indians.

yes by not accepting their martyred soldiers

Yup, the whole of Bollywood was there to record this to make sure the gullible Indian public keep their tail up......BTW, you weren't even willing to accept your alive pilot, Nachiketa....thus he was handed over to the Red Cross.

 

[PradoTLC]

There is no mention of Indian action in the op

That is exactly the whole point….


IA didn’t do any thing that forced a withdrawal…

Just say

“ thank you Clinton”

 

[PradoTLC]

Tactically the Kargil skirmish went well for Pakistan......but strategically it went well for India. This is a lesson that needs to be learned at PDF. Despite the strong performance of Pakistani forces on the ground....it overall showed to foreign strategists that Pakistan really had no strategic game plan against India and would remain mired in unresolved conflicts.

.

I agree the problem was of leadership.

Nawaz is a hateful bastard who also a total incompetent and a coward who couldn’t face American pressure.

A real national leader would have held his ground and sold the nation’s narrative.

Kargil operation was totally legitimate, it was our land india captured from us in 1971 , and it was part of the siachin war. There was nothing for us to apologize about.

if you see the events of 27 feb 2019 it was almost a exact copy of kargil. The difference was leadership.

our leadership explained the situation
Drew the red line
Did a correct action
Result : Indian humiliation in armed conflict and a world awakening that Kashmiri is not just a “ terrorism “ issue as india falsely claims.

Imagine of Nawaz was PM during Palawama affair… it would have been kargil II

 

[KedarT]

Like occupying unoccupied Siachin?

We didn't occupy Siachen by occupying unmanned Pakistani posts. So that's a different thing.

 

[GumNaam]

We didn't occupy Siachen by occupying unmanned Pakistani posts. So that's a different thing.

erm...that's exactly what siachin was; unmanned. your planners made the stupid assumption that the rest of GB will also be unmanned so you will be able to just walk in and occupy it. now your stuck in between a rock and a hard place. ab barfani kufiyaan bnao!

 

[KedarT]

erm...that's exactly what siachin was; unmanned.

It's different from an unmanned Pakistani post. We didn't take over a Pakistani post as such, we just reached there first.

Also, talking about Siachen, Pakistani soldiers did try to take Siachen from us but couldn't.

your planners made the stupid assumption that the rest of GB will also be unmanned so you will be able to just walk in and occupy it. now your stuck in between a rock and a hard place.

Sorry, I didn't get this.

 

[GumNaam]

It's different from an unmanned Pakistani post. We didn't take over a Pakistani post as such, we just reached there first.

Also, talking about Siachen, Pakistani soldiers did try to take Siachen from us but couldn't.

Sorry, I didn't get this.

It's all about the ROI. Pakistan does not see any strategic nor tactical advantage in siachin nor does india except for a pathway to the rest of GB which india could not take advantage of, heck they couldn't even fully take siachin, let alone GB. Pakistan saw that the ROI was worth in Kargil hence we took over the indian posts and to this day, the highest, most strategic peak of point 5353 is with us, indians have failed in over 20 years to get it back. now indian forces in siachin is stuck in between 4 rocks, CHINA to the north east, PAKISTAN to the west, BRUTAL COLD & the risk of having the single road to supply siachin choked off via point 5353. if I was you, I'd demand my money back from your military planners as a tax payer.

 

[KedarT]

Pakistan does not see any strategic nor tactical advantage in siachin nor does india except for a pathway to the rest of GB which india could not take advantage of, heck they couldn't even fully take siachin, let alone GB.

If Siachen wasn't even important for Pakistan, what was Operation Ababeel about? As I mentioned earlier, Pakistan made multiple failed attempts to take Siachen in the 1980s and 1990s but couldn't, please read it up. Of course, we have the advantage of high ground over there.

Pakistan saw that the ROI was worth in Kargil hence we took over the indian posts and to this day, the highest, most strategic peak of point 5353 is with us, indians have failed in over 20 years to get it back.

I checked about point 5353 on the net and on a cursory glance from the info I've read, that peak was always in Pakistan's territory even before Kargil. And India didn't try to take it back.

now indian forces in siachin is stuck in between 4 rocks, CHINA to the north east, PAKISTAN to the west, BRUTAL COLD & the risk of having the single road to supply siachin choked off via point 5353. if I was you, I'd demand my money back from your military planners as a tax payer.

Also, you are talking as if Pakistani Army is not deployed in Siachen and that only Indian Army is there. The fact is, both Indian and Pakistani soldiers are deployed there. However, I'll agree that it's costly for both India and Pakistan.

Siachen: All you should know about the world’s costliest battlefield | Siachen Battlefield India, China & Pakistan

Life is tough at the Siachen glacier, spread over a 76 km area, due to sub-zero temperatures that dip below -60 degrees, constant threat of avalanches, crevasses on the glacier, high-speed winds and a range of potentially fatal altitude-related ailments.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Killer Siachen — 'where a Pakistani soldier dies every four days from the cold'

On the Siachen glacier, avalanches and extreme cold have killed and maimed more soldiers than active fighting has.

www.dawn.com

But after Kargil, we have trust issues with you guys. So vacating Siachen is not simple. It also ensures that you are not linked with China Occupied Kashmir.

 

[GumNaam]

If Siachen wasn't even important for Pakistan, what was Operation Ababeel about? As I mentioned earlier, Pakistan made multiple failed attempts to take Siachen in the 1980s and 1990s but couldn't, please read it up. Of course, we have the advantage of high ground over there.

I checked about point 5353 on the net and on a cursory glance from the info I've read, that peak was always in Pakistan's territory even before Kargil. And India didn't try to take it back.

Also, you are talking as if Pakistani Army is not deployed in Siachen and that only Indian Army is there. The fact is, both Indian and Pakistani soldiers are deployed there. However, I'll agree that it's costly for both India and Pakistan.

Siachen: All you should know about the world’s costliest battlefield | Siachen Battlefield India, China & Pakistan

Life is tough at the Siachen glacier, spread over a 76 km area, due to sub-zero temperatures that dip below -60 degrees, constant threat of avalanches, crevasses on the glacier, high-speed winds and a range of potentially fatal altitude-related ailments.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Killer Siachen — 'where a Pakistani soldier dies every four days from the cold'

On the Siachen glacier, avalanches and extreme cold have killed and maimed more soldiers than active fighting has.

www.dawn.com

But after Kargil, we have trust issues with you guys. So vacating Siachen is not simple. It also ensures that you are not linked with China Occupied Kashmir.

once the confrontation begin, different ops take place from both sides, that's expected. the fact is and remains that india failed to meet its true objectives. and I never said that Pakistan Sent is not deployed in siachin. I said Pakistan Army was not there in the beginning; due to Afghanistan Soviet war. that is what you tried to take advantage of but utterly failed. what exactly is that you are getting from being stuck in a partially occupied siachin where you can't withdraw more move forward. the answer is nothing. and no, peak 5353 was in indian control prior to Kargil. check it out, from your own sources:

you indians just can't play the linguistic gymnastics to hide your shameful failures anymore.

 

[KedarT]

once the confrontation begin, different ops take place from both sides, that's expected. the fact is and remains that india failed to meet its true objectives.

How come? We dispatched you from many peaks. I don't have a lot knowledge about it but I know this much.

Also, what were even Pakistani's objectives by treacherously trying to take over Kargil areas? Didn't you want Kashmir? Instead of Kashmir, you are happy with taking peaks?

I said Pakistan Army was not there in the beginning; due to Afghanistan Soviet war. that is what you tried to take advantage of but utterly failed.

It was Pakistanis that first wanted to take Siachen, we simply pre-empted you.

what exactly is that you are getting from being stuck in a partially occupied siachin where you can't withdraw more move forward. the answer is nothing.

Didn't you read my previous reply along with the articles that I posted? Please stop repeating things.

and no, peak 5353 was in indian control prior to Kargil. check it out, from your own sources:

It's still ambiguous about whether Pt 5353 was in India's or Pakistan's hands prior to Kargil. Even if we failed to capture Pt 5353, was Pakistan's objective of starting Kargil war to capture that peak?

This article states this:

He then provides the reasons: “This feature lies on the Pakistan side and to capture it, the attacking troops have to approach from the north entailing crossing the LC (Line of Control). Since the LC was not to be crossed and the feature being on the Pakistan side, we had no plans to secure it”.

The rarely told story of vital Point 5353 India failed to retake from Pakistan in Kargil

Some 19 yrs after the war, ThePrint pieces together events that prevented the Indian Army from capturing a vital height.

theprint.in

 

[GumNaam]

How come? We dispatched you from many peaks. I don't have a lot knowledge about it but I know this much.

Also, what were even Pakistani's objectives by treacherously trying to take over Kargil areas? Didn't you want Kashmir? Instead of Kashmir, you are happy with taking peaks?

It was Pakistanis that first wanted to take Siachen, we simply pre-empted you.

Didn't you read my previous reply along with the articles that I posted? Please stop repeating things.

It's still ambiguous about whether Pt 5353 was in India's or Pakistan's hands prior to Kargil. Even if we failed to capture Pt 5353, was Pakistan's objective of starting Kargil war to capture that peak?

This article states this:

He then provides the reasons: “This feature lies on the Pakistan side and to capture it, the attacking troops have to approach from the north entailing crossing the LC (Line of Control). Since the LC was not to be crossed and the feature being on the Pakistan side, we had no plans to secure it”.

The rarely told story of vital Point 5353 India failed to retake from Pakistan in Kargil

Some 19 yrs after the war, ThePrint pieces together events that prevented the Indian Army from capturing a vital height.

theprint.in

wrong. the dirty little secret is that you could not dispatch from anything, we withdrew after pressure from clinton on nawaz sharif but even then, musharraf pushed that we will not withdraw from the strategically important peak 5353. so at the end of the day, you lost a major stronghold to Pakistan.

Pakistan's interesting in siachin was never there which is why the area was left unmarked from the beginning. Pakistan made the mistake of thinking that india would be an honorable enemy and not act like a sneaky village phuppaykutni that sneaks in when no one is looking. We know better now and gave you a taste of your own medicine in Kargil.

as for Kashmir, yes we want it and rest assured and rest assured we will take it. let the withdrawal of your strategic partner pass them is dama dam mat qalandar time. We already pumping in thousands of freedom fighters at will that are afghan veterans that have been fighting along side the taliban. in spite of exhausting your own army by stuffing most of them on the streets of Kashmir instead of the loc, border and the barracks its already proven that there's not a damn thing you can do to stop em except just stopping the media from going in to hide your casualties. After all, there's a reason why ajit doval is running after the Taliban trying to touch their feet asking for friendship, he knows exactly what's in-store for india post u.s. withdrawal.

 

[KedarT]

wrong. the dirty little secret is that you could not dispatch from anything, we withdrew after pressure from clinton on nawaz sharif but even then, musharraf pushed that we will not withdraw from the strategically important peak 5353. so at the end of the day, you lost a major stronghold to Pakistan.

So basically you are saying that you were pressured to evacuate few peaks (which btw you occupied when our soldiers weren't there) and for a few peaks you weren't pressurized. Does that even make sense?

Pakistan's interesting in siachin was never there which is why the area was left unmarked from the beginning. Pakistan made the mistake of thinking that india would be an honorable enemy and not act like a sneaky village phuppaykutni that sneaks in when no one is looking. We know better now and gave you a taste of your own medicine in Kargil.

Again, you aren't reading what I've written already. And for Kargil, it was your side that stabbed us in the back. Peeth par kanjar ka vaar kiya aap logo ne.

as for Kashmir, yes we want it and rest assured and rest assured we will take it. let the withdrawal of your strategic partner pass them is dama dam mat qalandar time. We already pumping in thousands of freedom fighters at will that are afghan veterans that have been fighting along side the taliban. in spite of exhausting your own army by stuffing most of them on the streets of Kashmir instead of the loc, border and the barracks its already proven that there's not a damn thing you can do to stop em except just stopping the media from going in to hide your casualties.

Aa jao, we are waiting since a long time.
And send anyone into Kashmir, Afghans, Arabs, whoever so you wish, any person who crosses illegally will receive the same fate.

And by the way, why do you even want to rely on Afghans lol? Shooting at us from someone else's shoulders instead of your own?