Karachi: Zulfiqar Mirza's statement triggers another round of violence

[Porus]

^Porus. Does an example have to include all permutations and possibilities?

Yes, it becomes almost mandatory when you demand the proof of loyalty from two other ethnic groups.

Fine, include the Punjabis too. But the problem you'd get is that a lot of them do see themselves as Pakistanis first and Punjabis second, so that wouldn't help my argument,

A lot of them also consider themselves to be more Pakistanis then the others but it still doens’t make them one. Pakistan has become synonym to Punjab for many Punjabis (just my observation), maybe due to their overwhelming majority in the armed forces and bureaucracy and they also make up almost 60% of the whole population of Pakistan. Punjabis voluntarily gave up their mother tongue in favour of Urdu (many even don’t own their mother tongue, they call it the language of Saradaran) and accepted the cultural hegemony of the immigrants from India. Therefore, I am not surprised IF “a lot of them “ supersede their national identity over their ethnic identity.

and if you noticed the argument was limited to the Sindh sarzameen and I gave AZ one outside one he could easily recognize.

Does it make any difference? And I have also pointed out towards the obvious fallaciousness in your fanciful claim in which you said that “waht the poor son-of-the-son-of-a-muhaajir would say if enquired about his ethnicity”.

And if you could pay more attention, I have already explained that composite identities need not be antagonistic. I can be a Pakistani and a Urdugo and a Sindhi and a man all at the same time. Do you see a problem with that?

No, not me, its you who seem to have a problem with it. You better read again what you wrote in your previous post:

You have no idea how pervasive is anti-Pakistanism in Pakistan. Let's talk of identity. Ask any Sindhi how he identifies himself and the answer is invariably "Maan Sindhi aahyaan", close to home you'd get the reply "Za Pukhtun yam" but the poor son-of-the-son-of-a-muhaajir invariably says "I'm a Pakistani". That is an inflammatory statement in much of Pakistan. Fine, I totally understand that for many people being a Sindhi/Punjabi/Pukhtun is not antagonistic to being a Pakistani. But for many it is. The latter also carry guns and believe 'the other' can be killed without remorse.

I can’t tolerate the megalomaniac attitude of some ethnic chauvinists, ironically most of them belong to one certain ethnic group. You are accusing Sindhis and Pathans for taking pride in their ethnicity and exonerating another ethnic group whose ethnocentric politics is its hall mark. Youre opinion is biased and prejudiced against "the latter" ones and it is quite obvious in your posts.

 

[American Pakistani]

@ sombozo

You're arguing with kids who have been fed throughout their lives the fake stories of their never existed Bungalows and imaginary immense wealth they left in India for Pakistan, and not to mention the qurbani of 2 to 3 million muhajirs (this figure keeps on changing according the mood and for MQM wala muhajirs = Urdu speaking from Bihar or UP). Before partition only 12 percent of Muslim population in UP belonged to Ashrafia class whose members were either rich landlords or belonged to the middle-class, the rest were quite poor. This ratio should be almost same for the Muhajir diaspora in Pakistan.

Look, they feel themselves quite comfortable in their make-believe world, it gives them their reason and justification of migration to Pakistan and a reason to feel more pakistanis then those who were already living here before the partition. humney Pakistan banaya hai. In reality the idea of Pakistan was proposed by a Punjabi, the name was coined by a Punjabi, the leader was from Sindh, AIML was started by the Bengalis but it was hijacked by the landlords of UP, Sindh and Bengal were the first provinces whose assemblies voted for Pakistan. Without the jageerdars of Punjab Pakistan would have never come into being and Pk would never be a part of Pakistan if Pathans had not voted to join Pakistan. The bulk of those who were martyred during partition were Punjabis actually. The little contribution of Muslims of other states of British India should be appreciated but the myth of their over exaggerated contribution should be destroyed. You are right, the bulk of Muhajirs came to Pakistn in the 50s and 60s because of economic opportunities. Liaquat Ali Khan had set 17% quota in govenment jobs for those who made up only 1% of Pakistans population in the late 40s. All the Muhajirs who cam to Pakistan after Nehru-Liqauat Pact of 1950 can be labelled as illegal immigrants. It is also a myth that Pakistan was made for all the Muslims of British India.

After realising the point of your irresponsible post, i'm thinking that was maulana abul kalam azad right in his speech to the Muslims of India(UP,Bihar etc) in which he said that you will regret for leaving your homes & no one will accept you in their lands as their own people.

 

[Porus]

After realising the point of your irresponsible statement, i'm thinking that was maulana abul kalam azad right in his speech to the Muslims of India(UP,Bihar etc) in which he said that you will regret for leaving your homes & no one will accept you in their lands as their own people.

You have come to wrong conclusion. Oh well, never mind.

 

[somebozo]

Wow .. what load of rubbish.. have you also spoken to these poor sons-of-muhajirs who always ask - are you from Sindh? without realizing that Karachi is part of of Sindh too ..

Also, how many muhajirs have integrated in Sindh? How many of these poor sons speak Sindhi? Perhaps you should do this experiment before advocating your hatred any further ... shame on you

There are many sindhi labours working in Saudi Arabia and I have often seen this pro-mqm crowd ridicule them the worst way especially if they happen to be on a position of advantage like supervisor or manager.

In regards to language and culture, you raise a good point. Migrants should at-least be fluent in the language of host country even if they don't adopt the culture. What I have personally witnessed is that some of these people (pro mqm crowd) have a nostalgia of Urdu greatness and its literary works so they seem to keep their kids away of other cultural and language influences. You will be surprised that some of my urdu-speaker friends born and raised in KSA (Indian and Pakistani both) are still pretty poor at Arabic language. It is to do with mindset of people however it is neither a generalization nor a majority. Their nostalgia however disappears if they happen to set their foot in western countries.

After realising the point of your irresponsible post, i'm thinking that was maulana abul kalam azad right in his speech to the Muslims of India(UP,Bihar etc) in which he said that you will regret for leaving your homes & no one will accept you in their lands as their own people.

Around the world, The task of local integration is responsibility migrants, not the hosts. The blame is on the migrants who now running in their 3rd or 4th generation cannot even speak the Sindhi language properly. The culture and heritage of sindh is thousands of years old and there is no way they can accept a replacement. Doing so will unleash ethnic violence. Marriage is the nature way of integration, but often if you look into matrimonial posted in Pakistani newspapers one will find "Sirf Udru Speaker Mohajir hazarat rabta kareen". With such isolated attitude, these people are bound to remain isolated for a long long time to come. I never hear even their pir aka altaf hussian to take up these issues of integration and cultural harmony. Other than symbolic flaunting of pagre, ajrak and Sindhi topi.

There is still time, some mohajirs should take up the charge to marry into educated sindhi families, this could be first step towards integration. Until and unless you will not establish blood ties to the natives of the land, things will remain volatile. Dont say it is not possible, not the entire sindh is fedual or communal to begin with.

One has to learn from the Arabs, where ever they traveled and settled they would marry into the locals and hence grew to flaunt such a massive impact on world history. In a land of thousands of years heritage, the new comers are bound to assimilate if not by will then be annihilated by force. That is the natures way like it on not and MQM type parties will not survive for long playing the MQM card. I have arabi friends who were born or raised in Pakistan and can speak Sindhi better than the Urdu speakers of Karachi.

Urdu may be a great language and culture but its significance in Pakistan is merely a common mode of communication. It can never come to replace the local culture and language.

Many Urdu speakers think the Indus river flows the other way, armed with their illusions of sacrifice and creation of Pakistan, they believe to be more Pakistani than the natives which is not an the case. Secondly, it has a huge impact on the political mindset. The natives were living on their lands for thousand of years peacefully and even under British India. Their aspirations were more of an identity and freedom from a country dominated by completely different ethnic and religious mix (united India). The aspirations of mohajirs on other hand were the same but they had to travel and settle somewhere else to achieve that. So they apparently became the guests in someone else native lands. Therefore, they are the aliens who are expect to naturalize, and not the other way around.

Also another personal observation, blind nationalism is the cause of mutual destruction between two parties.
Pakistani is a multi ethinic and multi culture country and the term "Pakistani" does not denote anything more than a nationality. An Afgani, Tajik, Uzbek or Turk can become a Pakistani if award the right documents. The native people of the land of Pakistan, be it Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Baloch, Seraiki have been living and identifying themselves by their ethnicity on this land for thousands of years and will continue to do so as their culture and language is dominant on this region nor they have been infighting with each other, however this one party aka MQM which has come from outside not too long ago has a problem with every ethnic group of Pakistan. So either they should go in the middle of nowhere and create a country of their own which will not be challenged by the natives (thar dessert is an option here) or simply choose to integrate in the language and culture dominant over the given region.