Karachi : VIP Protocol “Police” and “Citizen”

[F86 Saber]

Actually you should not be so narrow minded. People who live abroad in successful countries have an alternate perspective you should consider.

Security forces in the UK get filmed all the time, especially when they are arresting suspects etc. The same is true around the civilised world. The man in the car was using a camera phone not an uzi, they are easily distinguishable.

Karachi is not the red zone of Baghdad (circa 2006). If it is then the very same people who utilise the protocol are responsible for it being that way. Where is the police protocol for the rest of the awam? Is the life of a politician or judge or general any more important than the life of a labourer or a shopkeeper or an IT worker?

When the idol worship of those elected to office or appointed to office stops, only then will this country move forwards. The police are paid to protect us all, not just those with political clout. This video recording is part of a social campaign to highlight the trouble society is put through by so called vip culture. All life is equally important.

I do not live abroad but have significant exposure as my job takes me all over the world very frequently, the alternate perspective does not mean squat if you do not have hands on experience of the conditions on the ground.

Tell me something, do laborers, common people and IT workers get the same protocol as the Royal family in England? Yes their convoys are not as long as those of our VIPs but they are there nevertheless. So do the common people have the same? Why not? Earth will not stop spinning if Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwell are killed by an angry mob (which they almost were in 2010).

Judges, Generals and politicians are considered VIPs because they are primary targets of terrorists as they hold important positions and are performing important tasks, which are against the agenda of terrorists and which will be pushed back if they die. Their deaths will also cause more panic in general public. This is not to say that general public is less important, however since we are in a state of war and our LEA's are facing heavy losses as well, the safety of people with higher importance takes precedence.

Yes Karachi is not as unsafe as a few years ago yet Police and LEAs are frequently targeted in drive by shootings.
https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/06/four-policemen-gunned-down-in-karachi/

https://www.geo.tv/latest/153234-attack-on-traffic-police-in-karachi-leaves-at-least-one-dead

https://www.dawn.com/news/1347430


They have the right to protect themselves with any means necessary. Like i said earlier, "terrorist" or "lawyer" is not written on anyone's forehead.

 

[Mav3rick]

What you want publicly hanging?
They are security forces need some upper hand over to maintain discipline.

Please note that I had already posted what I believe should be done:

"he should face criminal assault charges and he should be sentenced to jail term."

As for the other line of your post, I do not agree with it. The security forces are there to protect civilians, they are paid salaries from budgets which is accumulated from our taxes and our hard earned money. There is no justification for the way the security personnel behaved, period.

You are defending someone whose identity or intentions you have no idea about??? What if he is actually a terrorist doing recce of the convoy of whosoever was in the car to plot an attack later??? Why was he filming the convoy?? There wasn't anything out of the ordinary about it, it was even moving along with the normal traffic, so why was he filming it?? Even after the policeman gave him a scare, he kept on following and filming the convey, Itni kia takeef thi video bananay ke??

The only thing i have an objection about is that the 2nd time the policeman should have pulled his stupid a$$ out of the car, spread him on the hood and slapped handcuffs on him.

You may note that I have posted comments only on the conduct of the security personnel, I haven't posted anything about the conduct of the person who was making that video. Many a time people make videos of excessive use of security by VIP's and VVIP's merely to comment on the practice on social forums. However, an argument could still be made that the recording could potentially have been for ulterior motives such as recce etc. In this case, there should be clear SOP's; the convoy and it's security personnel put that VIP in extreme danger by not only stopping the convoy but also by abandoning it to a non-threat. What if this had been a ploy to divert attention of the security personnel to find an ideal window of opportunity to attack the VIP???

You may also note that this is neither a police state not under curfew. There are no general instructions to the public not to record movements of VIP's, there are countless videos of movements by PM to CM to Army Chief to heads of political parties.

Basically, the police personnel who manhandled and assaulted the civilian did so outside their jurisdiction and should be held accountable, severely. I mean if defenders of freedom and protectors of civilians start behaving above the law then what else is there to correct?

 

[F86 Saber]

Please note that I had already posted what I believe should be done:

"he should face criminal assault charges and he should be sentenced to jail term."

As for the other line of your post, I do not agree with it. The security forces are there to protect civilians, they are paid salaries from budgets which is accumulated from our taxes and our hard earned money. There is no justification for the way the security personnel behaved, period.



You may note that I have posted comments only on the conduct of the security personnel, I haven't posted anything about the conduct of the person who was making that video. Many a time people make videos of excessive use of security by VIP's and VVIP's merely to comment on the practice on social forums. However, an argument could still be made that the recording could potentially have been for ulterior motives such as recce etc. In this case, there should be clear SOP's; the convoy and it's security personnel put that VIP in extreme danger by not only stopping the convoy but also by abandoning it to a non-threat. What if this had been a ploy to divert attention of the security personnel to find an ideal window of opportunity to attack the VIP???

You may also note that this is neither a police state not under curfew. There are no general instructions to the public not to record movements of VIP's, there are countless videos of movements by PM to CM to Army Chief to heads of political parties.

Basically, the police personnel who manhandled and assaulted the civilian did so outside their jurisdiction and should be held accountable, severely. I mean if defenders of freedom and protectors of civilians start behaving above the law then what else is there to correct?

It is not a matter of SOP, it is a matter of common sense. When i am abroad with my colleagues and we are having casual conversations in Urdu, we avoid uttering words like Terrorists or Taliban. There is no ban on uttering these words, it is just common sense that we do not want to alarm people sitting around us who do not know in what context we are using these words.

Now here you have a guy who is following the convoy and filming even after being asked multiple times not to (it and my feeling is that the guy must have been warned less threateningly at least once before the police officer took more serious action, he simply cut out that part of the video).

Security people did not have a choice, either they could keep going on into an ambush setup by a guy filming their movement or stop and take care of him, obviously they could not stop themselves while the VIP's car moved on without or with less security so they had to stop the whole convoy.

Yes i do believe that the policeman did not do the right thing, like i said in an earlier post, he should have dragged him out, spread him on the hood, handcuffed him and confiscated his phone. This way he could have avoided the whole mess.

When PM/CM/Army Chief move, they do not have the threat of someone following and filming them as their route is closed off and secured. We are not under curfew but we are in a state of war, we as common people should help our LEA's, not try to make their jobs harder. Next time a legitimate threat might be ignored or overlooked only under the fear of a similar backlash which might end in catastrophe only because an Ahole wanted to film a convoy.

 

[Mav3rick]

It is not a matter of SOP, it is a matter of common sense. When i am abroad with my colleagues and we are having casual conversations in Urdu, we avoid uttering words like Terrorists or Taliban. There is no ban on uttering these words, it is just common sense that we do not want to alarm people sitting around us who do not know in what context we are using these words.

Now here you have a guy who is following the convoy and filming even after being asked multiple times not to (it and my feeling is that the guy must have been warned less threateningly at least once before the police officer took more serious action, he simply cut out that part of the video).

Security people did not have a choice, either they could keep going on into an ambush setup by a guy filming their movement or stop and take care of him, obviously they could not stop themselves while the VIP's car moved on without or with less security so they had to stop the whole convoy.

Yes i do believe that the policeman did not do the right thing, like i said in an earlier post, he should have dragged him out, spread him on the hood, handcuffed him and confiscated his phone. This way he could have avoided the whole mess.

When PM/CM/Army Chief move, they do not have the threat of someone following and filming them as their route is closed off and secured. We are not under curfew but we are in a state of war, we as common people should help our LEA's, not try to make their jobs harder. Next time a legitimate threat might be ignored or overlooked only under the fear of a similar backlash which might end in catastrophe only because an Ahole wanted to film a convoy.

That is a lengthy post justifying the VIP concept and concept of security convoys harassing common citizens. Perhaps you have forgotten, quite conveniently, that the common citizen has sacrificed many magnitude more lives than the VIP's.

Relating what you avoid speaking when abroad to an act of freedom in Pakistan is quite irrelevant. You may use the words Terrorism and Terrorists and Talibaan etc. wherever you travel and LEA's may be alerted to your conversation which may ultimately result in some sort of an embarrassing or worst adverse situation for you. Documenting/Recording something, most likely for discussion and shaming of this growing VIP culture over the social media is neither banned nor a security threat. And if it was indeed considered a security threat than the threat should have been neutralized, by alterting the local LEA's and/or quick response units to intercept the convoy and take the movie maker into custody. But slapping and physically assaulting the person is just not justified, no matter how much you are programmed to defend it.

 

[F86 Saber]

That is a lengthy post justifying the VIP concept and concept of security convoys harassing common citizens. Perhaps you have forgotten, quite conveniently, that the common citizen has sacrificed many magnitude more lives than the VIP's.

Relating what you avoid speaking when abroad to an act of freedom in Pakistan is quite irrelevant. You may use the words Terrorism and Terrorists and Talibaan etc. wherever you travel and LEA's may be alerted to your conversation which may ultimately result in some sort of an embarrassing or worst adverse situation for you. Documenting/Recording something, most likely for discussion and shaming of this growing VIP culture over the social media is neither banned nor a security threat. And if it was indeed considered a security threat than the threat should have been neutralized, by alterting the local LEA's and/or quick response units to intercept the convoy and take the movie maker into custody. But slapping and physically assaulting the person is just not justified, no matter how much you are programmed to defend it.

I am not justifying VIP culture in fact far from it, however it is important to provide security to our Judges, Police officers and Generals to allow them to do their duty without any fear. A lot of sleeper cells still exist which can cause an incident anytime anywhere, it is better safe than sorry. However in this incident, i do not see the reason why he had to make a video, the convoy is seemingly travelling along with the normal traffic.

I think the Policeman took a hasty decision to confront the guy because they did not have time to call and wait for the LEA's or quick response units as stopping the convoy for even a few minutes would also have put it in danger. They also could not have arrested him because they had nowhere to put him and taking him along would have been stupid.

My plea is, please don't judge our LEAs so quickly, they work long hours, under dangerous conditions for a measly salary and most of them don't do it for the money or facilities.