kamov Ka-226 v/s Eurocopter Fennec

[acetophenol]

1.Kamov Ka-226

Role:Light utility
National origin: Russia
Manufacturer:Kamov
First flight:4 September 1997
Introduction:2002
Developed from:Kamov Ka-26

The Kamov Ka-226 "Sergei" is a small, twin-engined Russian utility helicopter. The Ka-226 features an interchangeable mission pod, rather than a conventional cabin, allowing the use of various accommodation or equipment configurations. The Ka-226 entered service in 2002.
Variants of the Ka-226 have the NATO reporting name of Hoodlum, however Kamov's own name for the Ka-226 is Sergei.

Crew: 1
Passengers: 9
Cargo: 1,400kg internally, or 1,500kg on an external sling
Length: 8.1 m (25 ft 7 in)
Main rotor diameter: 2× 13 m (42 ft 8 in)
Height: 4.15 m (13 ft 7 in)
Gross weight: 3400 kg (7496 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Arrius 2G1, 335 kW (450 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 205 km/h (127 mph)
Cruising speed: 195 km/h (121 mph)
Range: 600 km (372 miles)
Service ceiling: 6200 m (20300 ft)
Hover ceiling: 2500 m (8200 ft)

Advantages

1.Ka-226 has a unique inter changeable mission pod,making it suitable for a wide range of operations and most importantly allows India to lay its hands and gather experience and knowledge on one of the most unique helicopter designs.
2.Ka-226 features kamov's trademark coaxial rotors,which allows the helicopter greater speed and stability.India has been operating coaxial helicopters in Indian Navy in small numbers. Another chance to master a new type of helicopter design.
3.Greater service ceiling of 6200mtr
4.Uses twin engines.
5.Larger passenger and payload capacity
6.Smaller than the fennec as the tail rotor is eliminated,thanks to coaxial design

Disadvantages

1.Ka-226 is likely to be more maintenance intensive as co-axial motors are more complex compared to other conventional systems.
2.Range is less than fennec (600 v/s 648 km)
3.Less speed than fennec (205 v/s 248 km/hr)
4.Not as widely deployed as fennec
5.Russia is notorious for late in keeping their orders
6.Ugly looking!!
7.An armed version not known to be in service (atleast to me)

2.Eurocopter Fennec

The Eurocopter AS550 Fennec and AS555 Fennec 2 are lightweight, multipurpose military helicopters manufactured by Eurocopter Group. Based on the AS350 Ecureuil and AS355 Ecureuil 2 series, they are named after the Fennec Fox. The armed versions of the AS550 and AS555 can be fitted with coaxial weapons, rockets, torpedoes and various other munitions.

Advantages

1.Conventional design,has to learn less.
2.More range(648 km v/s 600 km)
3.More speed (246 km/hr v/s 205 km/hr)
4.Armed version available
5.French made engines
6.Less prone to late deliveries
7.Beauty!!
Disadvantages

1.Less stable than Ka-226
2.Isn't as "multi-role" as Ka-226
3.Less payload and passenger (4 v/s 9 in Ka-226)
4.Uses a single engine


Well if you ask me as i will support Ka-226,even though Fennec is likely to win!

^^^ watch the video before u vote!

 

[acetophenol]

what? As usual no one gives a sh!t about my thread?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

JORDAN TO ASSEMBLE 15-20 Ka-226s ANNUALLY


A Russian-Jordanian joint venture called Oboronprom Middle East, whose establishment was announced at the SOFEX 2006 arms show currently underway in Amman, plans to assemble 15 to 20 Ka-226 helicopters a year.

"We are planning to reach an annual output of 15 to 20 aircraft. At the moment we have six firm orders for the Ka-226 helicopter," Mr. Denis Manturov, director general of the “Oboronprom” united industrial corporation, told Interfax-Military News Agency on Wednesday.

The Middle Eastern market is among the most promising ones, he said. "Establishment of a joint venture in Jordan manufacturing Ka-226s paves the way for the helicopter to other countries of the region. We have no doubts that the new helicopter will be widely used here," Mr. Manturov said.

As it was earlier reported, Oboronprom Middle East was established by “Oboronprom” and Jordan's Orangeville Consulting Inc. “Oboronprom” owns 51 percent of shares in the new company, and Orangeville Consulting Inc. Owns the remaining 49 percent.

Jordanian officials stress that the joint venture was established under the patronage of Jordanian King Abdallah II.

The venture will be located in an aircraft park not far from Amman's international airport.

The Ka-226 is a light utility helicopter. It has a modular design. It is powered by two 450 hp engines, which allow it to be employed as a passenger helicopter, an air transport, a search and rescue chopper, an air ambulance, a patrol helicopter, or a fire-fighting one. The helicopter combines proved designs, such as co-axial rotors and “flying chassis” design, with contemporary technologies. The helicopter is fitted with gas turbine engines, new-generation navigation equipment, and a composite-material fuselage.

The helicopter meets international reliability, service life, noise and flight safety requirements, which is confirmed by proper certificates.

JORDAN TO ASSEMBLE 15-20 Ka-226s ANNUALLY | Oboronprom

So, I would go for Ka-226...

 

[Skull and Bones]

what? As usual no one gives a sh!t about my thread?

If i give you a bucket of shyte, does that mean it's a caring gesture from my side? Weird customs.

On topic, my vote is for Eurocopter Fennec, as it fits the bill better in terms of role and customization. And counter rotating engines in Kamov is a pain for maintenance stuff, but generates enough lift.

 

[Agent_47]

can u include indian requirements?
when comparing why is the number of ka-226 build is very low?(considering the yrs after intro)

 

[sancho]

what? As usual no one gives a sh!t about my thread?

Chill buddy, it's weekend, not everybody is online and sooner or later the replies will come.

My choice is clear, Eurocopter Fennec!

- more commonality possible to HALs LUH (possibly the lighter Shakti engine for both, besides avionics, or even same rotors...)
- ease of licence production, since the French part of Eurocopter was the manufacturer of the Chetaks as well
- proven, widely sold and with no problems of spare supply
- cheaper maintenance and spares
- a logical choice for IN and ICG in the light utility role, which again offers high commonality and reduced costs

 

[Abingdonboy]

Voted for Fennc and this is what the IAF/IA will get for sure!


Any day now.....

 

[airmarshal]

what? As usual no one gives a sh!t about my thread?

Seems like an odd comparison. One is a helicopter. The other is just the skeleton of a helicopter. It seems Kamov are not done yet.

 

[acetophenol]

Seems like an odd comparison. One is a helicopter. The other is just the skeleton of a helicopter. It seems Kamov are not done yet.

Have read about ka-226? In my opinion ka-226 out performs fennec. Ka 226 has an interchangeble mission pod which can be fixed or removed within a hour.
Suppose,an IA base,say siachin pioneers has ka 226. They keep two mission pods for a helicopter- say one for regular passenger transport and other for casevac with ventilators and stuff. Ka 226 will operate with its regular pod in ordinary conditions and in case of a disaster,we don't have to wait for a separate casevac heli,we just has to fix the casevac pod to ka 226! While ka 226 fly without pods,you attach a bambi bucket and you have a firefighting heli!

Ka-226 rocks!

If i give you a bucket of shyte, does that mean it's a caring gesture from my side? Weird customs.

On topic, my vote is for Eurocopter Fennec, as it fits the bill better in terms of role and customization. And counter rotating engines in Kamov is a pain for maintenance stuff, but generates enough lift.

Coaxial rotors aren't exactly a pain for maintenence,its going to be a little difficult,and something IA can definitly handle. Also,the role of Fennec is limited,while Ka 226 is more multirole and capable.

 

[acetophenol]

Chill buddy, it's weekend, not everybody is online and sooner or later the replies will come.

My choice is clear, Eurocopter Fennec!

- more commonality possible to HALs LUH (possibly the lighter Shakti engine for both, besides avionics, or even same rotors...)
- ease of licence production, since the French part of Eurocopter was the manufacturer of the Chetaks as well
- proven, widely sold and with no problems of spare supply
- cheaper maintenance and spares
- a logical choice for IN and ICG in the light utility role, which again offers high commonality and reduced costs

With HAL Luh,i have a different opinion. Since fennec and luh are very common, chances are high that fennec may be a threat to luh. One may feel that 'we have fennec,we have luh,both does the same job,why go for luh when fennec came in first and fennec will bring in some commisions! Remember t 90 arjun saga? Last thing i want to see is reports on ' fennec vs luh' trials. Also,if we take in Ka 226, it can fulfil one spectrum of operations,like troop transport,casevac etc,while HAL LUH can fulfill the other spectrum,say armed heli etc.
Also,ka 226 comes from our good old Russia! Once we license produce,spares aren't going to be much of an issue. Also,when we decided to buy the mig 29s and rafales,we were the first ones to do so! So why not we be the first major customer of ka 226?

can u include indian requirements?
when comparing why is the number of ka-226 build is very low?(considering the yrs after intro)

I don't know exactly about Indian requirements.may be someone else will help. Regarding the no. of ka 226,co axial motor isn't exactly prefered by small players,but for a major player like india,its not an issue.

 

[acetophenol]

Whoever be the winner will be working along with HAL LUH

 

[airmarshal]

Tell me one thing and this is coming from a person who does not know much about weapons and equipment.

Which weapons or equipment are more reliable? Russian or European/US?

 

[acetophenol]

Tell me one thing and this is coming from a person who does not know much about weapons and equipment.

Which weapons or equipment are more reliable? Russian or European/US?

IMO,all weapons are reliable except for some bad apples. Russians are cheap,easily available,rugged,some times maintenence intensive. Their downsides are late delivery and poor aftersale services.

Europeans,especially the french are reliable,costly,but only some times their products meet our needs or in short ,they have kinda less to offer.

US are reliable,costly,modern,expensive,not easily available ,strings attached but timely deliveries and superb aftersale service

 

[Agent X]

1.Kamov Ka-226

Role:Light utility
National origin: Russia
Manufacturer:Kamov
First flight:4 September 1997
Introduction:2002
Developed from:Kamov Ka-26



Crew: 1
Passengers: 9
Cargo: 1,400kg internally, or 1,500kg on an external sling
Length: 8.1 m (25 ft 7 in)
Main rotor diameter: 2× 13 m (42 ft 8 in)
Height: 4.15 m (13 ft 7 in)
Gross weight: 3400 kg (7496 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Arrius 2G1, 335 kW (450 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 205 km/h (127 mph)
Cruising speed: 195 km/h (121 mph)
Range: 600 km (372 miles)
Service ceiling: 6200 m (20300 ft)
Hover ceiling: 2500 m (8200 ft)

Advantages

1.Ka-226 has a unique inter changeable mission pod,making it suitable for a wide range of operations and most importantly allows India to lay its hands and gather experience and knowledge on one of the most unique helicopter designs.
2.Ka-226 features kamov's trademark coaxial rotors,which allows the helicopter greater speed and stability.India has been operating coaxial helicopters in Indian Navy in small numbers. Another chance to master a new type of helicopter design.
3.Greater service ceiling of 6200mtr
4.Uses twin engines.
5.Larger passenger and payload capacity
6.Smaller than the fennec as the tail rotor is eliminated,thanks to coaxial design

Disadvantages

1.Ka-226 is likely to be more maintenance intensive as co-axial motors are more complex compared to other conventional systems.
2.Range is less than fennec (600 v/s 648 km)
3.Less speed than fennec (205 v/s 248 km/hr)
4.Not as widely deployed as fennec
5.Russia is notorious for late in keeping their orders
6.Ugly looking!!
7.An armed version not known to be in service (atleast to me)

2.Eurocopter Fennec

Advantages

1.Conventional design,has to learn less.
2.More range(648 km v/s 600 km)
3.More speed (246 km/hr v/s 205 km/hr)
4.Armed version available
5.French made engines
6.Less prone to late deliveries
7.Beauty!!
Disadvantages

1.Less stable than Ka-226
2.Isn't as "multi-role" as Ka-226
3.Less payload and passenger (4 v/s 9 in Ka-226)
4.Uses a single engine


Well if you ask me as i will support Ka-226,even though Fennec is likely to win!

^^^ watch the video before u vote!

What Happened to HAL Light utility helicopter???

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^ it is still under devlopment, originally the IA/IAF requirement was for ~300-400 LUHs so to boost local industries MOD decided to split the order and so 197 will be purchased from abroad Fennec in this case and the rest will be HAL LUHs. If the HAL LUH is delayed then the IAF/IA will simply order more from abroad.