kamov Ka-226 v/s Eurocopter Fennec

[acetophenol]

Tell me one thing and this is coming from a person who does not know much about weapons and equipment.

Which weapons or equipment are more reliable? Russian or European/US?

IMO,all weapons are reliable except for some bad apples. Russians are cheap,easily available,rugged,some times maintenence intensive. Their downsides are late delivery and poor aftersale services.

Europeans,especially the french are reliable,costly,but only some times their products meet our needs or in short ,they have kinda less to offer.

US are reliable,costly,modern,expensive,not easily available ,strings attached but timely deliveries and superb aftersale service

 

[lilaspr]

No doubt Ka-226T is a winner here. LCH with few modification is comparable to Eurocopter Fennec... no scenes buying it.

 

[sancho]

With HAL Luh,i have a different opinion. Since fennec and luh are very common, chances are high that fennec may be a threat to luh. One may feel that 'we have fennec,we have luh,both does the same job,why go for luh when fennec came in first and fennec will bring in some commisions! Remember t 90 arjun saga? Last thing i want to see is reports on ' fennec vs luh' trials. Also,if we take in Ka 226, it can fulfil one spectrum of operations,like troop transport,casevac etc,while HAL LUH can fulfill the other spectrum,say armed heli etc.
Also,ka 226 comes from our good old Russia! Once we license produce,spares aren't going to be much of an issue. Also,when we decided to buy the mig 29s and rafales,we were the first ones to do so! So why not we be the first major customer of ka 226?

Both, the Fennec and the Ka 226 are meant to do the same roles as HALs LUH, the only reason why we have splitted the demand is, that HALs LUH is only under development and will take more time to mature. IAF/IA don't wanted another LCA like mistake, where they are dependent on a single platform only. So it's not a threat but an alternative in the same role and the more commonality they offer the better an cheaper the operation.
These helicopters are not meant to do many roles anyway, that's what Dhruv and Mi 17s are for. LUH are simply a more cost-effective backbone for the forces in the utility role. Even if the Ka could carry more troops than the Fennec, why should IA us them, when they have Dhruvs that can carry. I like modularity and multi role capability, but only if it make sense. For fighters, transport aircrafts and even for IFV it makes sense, for LUHs it doesn't really.
Btw, MoD/IAF officals made public statements that there are spare supply issues from Russia, even for the MKI and threatened to switch to western manufacturers if things won't change. Now the MKI or the Flanker in general is produced and sold 100s of times, the Ka 226 on the other side hardly has customers and even the Russians are noth going to buy it, but are considering to develop a new LUH with European partners. Now think about the spare issues our forces might face in 10 years or so.

 

[acetophenol]

Both, the Fennec and the Ka 226 are meant to do the same roles as HALs LUH, the only reason why we have splitted the demand is, that HALs LUH is only under development and will take more time to mature. IAF/IA don't wanted another LCA like mistake, where they are dependent on a single platform only. So it's not a threat but an alternative in the same role and the more commonality they offer the better an cheaper the operation.
These helicopters are not meant to do many roles anyway, that's what Dhruv and Mi 17s are for. LUH are simply a more cost-effective backbone for the forces in the utility role. Even if the Ka could carry more troops than the Fennec, why should IA us them, when they have Dhruvs that can carry. I like modularity and multi role capability, but only if it make sense. For fighters, transport aircrafts and even for IFV it makes sense, for LUHs it doesn't really.
Btw, MoD/IAF officals made public statements that there are spare supply issues from Russia, even for the MKI and threatened to switch to western manufacturers if things won't change. Now the MKI or the Flanker in general is produced and sold 100s of times, the Ka 226 on the other side hardly has customers and even the Russians are noth going to buy it, but are considering to develop a new LUH with European partners. Now think about the spare issues our forces might face in 10 years or so.

If ka 226 passes the evaluation tests,there is no need to doubt its capabilities. Choosing ka 226 will only help us improve our capabilities. If one platform can provide us with multiple benefits ,its better isn't it?

Regarding spares,i would say that planned local production will eliminate the spare parts issue in the future,same which is happening with mki.

 

[sancho]

If one platform can provide us with multiple benefits ,its better isn't it?

Of course and that's why we must take the Fennec!

Operational advantages:
(as you showed in the first post)

- it's faster
- has more range
- can be armed
- slung load is pretty equal too (1.4t vs 1.5t)


Maintenance advantages:

- single engine vs twin engine
- normal rotor vs coax rotor
- commonality to HAL LUH
- spares available on the civil market too
- lower maintenance timeframes for western engines


Industrial advantages:

- ease of licence production after Chetaks...
- long term relations to former Eurocopter companies for licence productions
- commonality to HAL LUH
- a chance to pressure the French and get more useful ToT to downsize Shakti engine
- producing parts of a widely sold helicopter vs producing parts for a helicopter that not even Russia opperates in useful numbers


Don't get me wrong, I am not against Russia or something, but we simply gain waaaay more in all areas if we buy the Fennec. The modularity are just a pretty useless feature for the light utility role and in terms of beeing useful for Multi Roles the Fennec beats the Kamov as well, with it's armed versions. I am even a fan of the Coax rotors and would love to see India focusing on it for the future, but only for NG helicopters with pusher rotors. That's why I am highly for HAL and Kamov join in the Ka 92 development, but the Ka 226 simply offers nothing important for us.

Regarding spares,i would say that planned local production will eliminate the spare parts issue in the future,same which is happening with mki.

As I already stated in my last post, licence production doesn't mean that all spares will be build indigenously too, so you are mistaken here!