K8 Karakoram

[fatman17]

K-8 JET TRAINER

Karakoram-8 (K-8), Basic Cum Advance Jet Trainer, is co-developed by Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF), Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, and China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation (CATIC).

Power Plant

K-8 is fitted with Allied Signal GARRETT TFE 731-2A-2A modular turbofan engine with DEEC & hydro mechanical fuel control system.

Cockpit Layout
Cockpit is designed to meet the latest Military Specification of Aircrew Station Geometry and vision requirements. EFIS made by Collins is fitted in front and rear cockpits. UHF/VHF communication system, TACAN/RADIO COMPASS & ILS are available as per the customers requirement.

Egress System / Escape System
Highly reliable escape system incorporating two Martin Baker MK-10L fully automatic rocket assisted zero-zero ejection seats to ensure survival capability within the entire flight envelope.

Environmental Control System (ECS)
Incorporation of most effective Allied Signal ECS provides a roomy cockpit environment with airconditioning capability even on ground under an ambient temperature of -40 °C to +52 °C.

Fuel System
The aircraft fuel system consists of the fuel tanks and the fuel supply / transfer, vent/pressurisation, fuel quantity measuring / indicating, fuel refuelling and fuel drain subsystems. The total fuel contained in two fuselage bladder-type rubber tanks and a wing integral tank is 1720 lb. The capacity of each drop tank is 250 Ltr.

Flight Control System
The aircraft is equipped with conventional flight control surfaces controlled by a rigid push-rod transmission system and are electrically or hydraulically operated. The aileron control system, of irreversible servo-control type, is composed of a hydraulic booster, an artificial feel device, a feel trim actuator and a rigid push-rod transmission mechanism. The elevator and rudder control system is of reversible push-rod type.

Main Features
Wide speed range and high manoeuvrability
Satisfactory flying qualities in accordance with the requirements set forth in MIL-F-8785C IV for highly- manoeuvrable aircraft
Good field of view and cockpit arrangement very close to a combat aircraft
Advanced turbofan engine with low specific fuel consumption and minimum operation and maintenance cost
State of the art equipment (including instrumentation, communication, navigation, etc.) satisfying the requirements of training pilots for next millennium.
Highly reliable escape system
Advanced strap on environmental control system capable of providing cockpit air- conditioning both on the ground and in the air
Hydraulically operated wheel braking and nose wheel steering
Multi role capability for training
8000 flight hours service life for airframe structure
Long endurance and high service ceiling adequate for a wide range of missions.
Low life cost
Short turn-around time and low maintenance work load

Main Data
Rated power Max static thrust at sea level 3600 lbs
SFC 0.502 lb/lb thrust hr (Max static thrust)
Air flow 115 lbs /sec (take-off and max continuous)
Engine net weight: 812 lb
Pressure ratio 13.9
Bypass ratio 2.67
An access through which the engine is installed/removed is provided on the belly of the fuselage. With this provision, replacement of the engine in the field takes £ 50 minutes.

Technical Data
Dimensions
Overall length 11.6 m
Overall height 4.21 m
Wing area 17.02 m2
Wing span 9.63 m
Wheel track 2.54 m
Wheel base 4.442 m

Weights
Normal take-off weight 3700 kg
Useful load 943 kg
Internal fuel capacity 780 kg
Weight empty 2757 kg
Max take-off weight 4332 kg

Flight Performance
Max level speed 800 km/hr
Rate of climb at sea level 30 m/s
Service ceiling 13600 m
Built-in Range 1560 km
Ferry range (with drop tanks) 2140 km
Endurance 3.2 hrs
Max endurance (with drop tanks) 4.2 hrs
Unstick speed 185 km/hr
Touchdown speed 160 km/hr
Take-off ground run 440 m
Landing ground run 530 m
Limit load factor +7.33 g
-3.0 g

Customers
The customers of K-8 are PLAAF (China), Pakistan Air Force, Myanmar. Zambia Air Force Namibia Air Force. Zimbabwe Air Force, Venezuala, Egypt.


@ AMF PAC KAMRA :: ----

 

[PAFAce]

I was reading up on Chinese jets under development when I came across the L-15 Falcon Jet Trainer. According to Sinodefence.com, it is an advanced supersonic jet trainer currently under development at Hongdu Aircraft Industry Corp. (HAIG). It also said that "The HAIG has been actively marketing the L-15 to both domestic and international customers" and that the "first operational variant will become available as early as 2009-2010".

The reason I am interested in this news is because of three main reasons:

1. It is supposed to be supersonic as well as more advanced than the K-8 (in terms of avionics etc).
2. According to Sinodefence, it is "highly useful when trying to simulate the maneuvers of advanced [fourth]-generation fighters such as the J-10 and J-11", or in other words, it provides a good base for Chinese air platforms.
3. It will be handy for Close Air Support, which is K-8's secondary role during wartime within the PAF, due to its supersonic speed and advanced systems.

I also know that the PAF is currently looking to replace its aging F/FT-6 (or maybe F/FT-5) used in the Fighter Conversion Units (FCU). I had heard a rumor that an advanced version of K-8 would be designed to replace the old jets, but I don't see that as very realistic since we've stopped producing K-8s in Pakistan. The L-15 could serve as a possible replacement, and we might even be able to manufacture them under license at some point in the future.

I just wanted see if one of the members could provide a comparative analysis of the two trainers (K-8 and L-15) in terms of ability. I also want to discuss the theory of currently operational F-7s being used to replace the old FCU trainers.

 

[fatman17]

all new PAF jet-trainers have been upgraded to K-8P standard. the previous 12-16 a/c will also be upgraded to the K-8P standard.

 

[Munir]

I think that with advanced training PAF has enough oppertunities with K8. It is even handy for weapon training. If pilots convert to opertational sqaudrons they will get inhouse upgrade. Adding another plane is reducing operational squadrons. The latest K8P is pretty decent plane and extremely cheap. And it is developed by Pakistan and China. Something surely is not the case with L15. We make spare parts for out K8. We are not going to do that also for the L15... We get share ifd K8 is sold to foreign customers. With L15 we will get nothing. So... I think we can stay with K8 cause it has more advantages and it is also used as advanced trainer and weapon training. Going supersonic is nice but is is a small extra not worth the extra costs etc.

 

[wangrong]

1、CJ6---K8---L15
2、CJ6---JL9---J7G/J8F
3、CJ6---K8---L15/J10S---J10
4、CJ6---K8---L15/SU27UB---SU27/J11/SU30

CJ6



JL9





L15

 

[Hasnain2009]

Very nice pics "wangrong" and JL9 looks like fighter AC!!

 

[wangrong]

Very nice pics "wangrong" and JL9 looks like fighter AC!!

CJ6---JL9---J7G/J8F/Fc-1

or

T-37---K8----(JL9)---J7PG/JF17

 

[spurdozer]

wangrong sir the picture of L-15 which you posted shows it is a double-engine jet. Is it true? Strange a trainer jet with double engine? Well PAFAce If L-15 is a double-engine jet then you have got your question answered. PAF never goes for double-engine.

 

[mean_bird]

wangrong sir the picture of L-15 which you posted shows it is a double-engine jet. Is it true? Strange a trainer jet with double engine? Well PAFAce If L-15 is a double-engine jet then you have got your question answered. PAF never goes for double-engine.

Yes, the L-15 is a double engined aircraft.



And yes, PAF is unlikely to go for the L-15. The PAF's K-8 which is the K-8P is more advanced that other K-8 in that it uses HUD, etc. that simulate facilities available in Pakistan's light weight fighters.

PAF doesn't operate heavy weight fighters (twin engined) so its unlikely to go for the L-15.

 

[Munir]

Mean bird, you doing a great jon on cdf. Sorry for the last strange heating scene from my side. Keep up the good work.

 

[PAFAce]

I see all your points. That is what I thought as well, that the L-15 will probably not be our Op Conversion plane, but the PAF will definitely take a look at it (actually, we're probably the country China offered it to first).

Just one question then, will our OCUs use F-7s passed down from operational squadrons once the JF-17 has been inducted? I know that the FT-5/6 don't really offer pilots great exposure to modern fighter technology, and therefore, the PAF is looking to replace them.

I'm just curious because, from what I have read and heard, I don't think PAF pilots get the kind of exposure to latest fighter jets as early as with other Air Forces (such as the Canadian Forces where CF-18s are used for Operational Conversion - BFM, ACM etc.), and that worries me.

 

[mean_bird]

Mean bird, you doing a great jon on cdf. Sorry for the last strange heating scene from my side. Keep up the good work.

don't mention...I have already forgotten that since and thanks for your kind words.

I see all your points. That is what I thought as well, that the L-15 will probably not be our Op Conversion plane, but the PAF will definitely take a look at it (actually, we're probably the country China offered it to first).

Just one question then, will our OCUs use F-7s passed down from operational squadrons once the JF-17 has been inducted? I know that the FT-5/6 don't really offer pilots great exposure to modern fighter technology, and therefore, the PAF is looking to replace them.

I'm just curious because, from what I have read and heard, I don't think PAF pilots get the kind of exposure to latest fighter jets as early as with other Air Forces (such as the Canadian Forces where CF-18s are used for Operational Conversion - BFM, ACM etc.), and that worries me.

I guess it really depends on whether we are developing the JF-17 twin seater or not. If we are, then I do not see any JL-15 or equivalent trainer entering PAF service.

If we aren't (developing the twin-seater version of JF-17), even then I would suspect PAF buying the JL-15 but the possibility will surely increase. K-8 is an intermediate trainer and the pakistani version features stuff such as HUD, MFD's, in addition to ILS, EFIS,etc. However, its not supersonic and it lacks FBW controls.

I do however believe that a twin-seater JF-17 will be made both because PAF is buying the JF-17 in such large numbers but also because since the JF-17 is an export oriented aircraft, there is a need for a twin-seater for other customers.

 

[qsaark]

wangrong sir the picture of L-15 which you posted shows it is a double-engine jet. Is it true? Strange a trainer jet with double engine? Well PAFAce If L-15 is a double-engine jet then you have got your question answered. PAF never goes for double-engine.

In fact a double-engine trainer is highly desireable. A trainer with two engines is more safe than a trainer with single engine. A number of trainers are double-engine such as Alpha Jet, Kawasaki T-4, PZL I-22, Aermacchi M-346, and Yak-130. PAF is already using T-37 which is a double-engine trainer.

 

[Ahassan]

all new PAF jet-trainers have been upgraded to K-8P standard. the previous 12-16 a/c will also be upgraded to the K-8P standard.

u r rite sir for pic plz see my thread amazing pic of paf i have posted the new k-8P recently bought!!!!

they r in formation of 5 aircraft's!!!!

they r actually the upgraded ones!!!

 

[fatman17]

I see all your points. That is what I thought as well, that the L-15 will probably not be our Op Conversion plane, but the PAF will definitely take a look at it (actually, we're probably the country China offered it to first).

Just one question then, will our OCUs use F-7s passed down from operational squadrons once the JF-17 has been inducted? I know that the FT-5/6 don't really offer pilots great exposure to modern fighter technology, and therefore, the PAF is looking to replace them.

I'm just curious because, from what I have read and heard, I don't think PAF pilots get the kind of exposure to latest fighter jets as early as with other Air Forces (such as the Canadian Forces where CF-18s are used for Operational Conversion - BFM, ACM etc.), and that worries me.

good discussion but we should be rest assured that PAF knows what it is doing!