K4 SLBM 3000 KM Range- First Video and Offical Acknowledgement

[kaku1]

Negative, the throw-weight depends exclusively on the individual masses of the RVs. Given that Pakistan does not possess heavier thermo-nuclear warheads, and has deployed ~300kg (~20kt) fission warheads aboard the cruise missiles, a payload of around 1500 kg can be enough for a minimum of 3 MIRVs.
.

One thing, you know weight and capability of Pak RV ( even of old one). I searched lot, but the doors are all closed.

We know all things of DRDO's old RV, but not of new Mk,5.

 

[NKVD]

We know all things of DRDO's old RV, but not of new Mk,5.

1. Mk-4: For light weight 17Kt Fusion Boosted Fission (FBF) warhead5. Mass6: ~180 Kg7.
2. Mk-5: For 50Kt FBF or 200Kt Thermo Nuclear (TN) warhead8. Mass: ~340 Kg
3. Mk-6: For 150Kt FBF warhead9. Mass: ~550 Kg.

 

[The Deterrent]

One thing, you know weight and capability of Pak RV ( even of old one). I searched lot, but the doors are all closed.

Well that depends on which doors you are knocking.

 

[kaku1]

Well that depends on which doors you are knocking.

Oldest.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Mechanical INS (giving CEP of less than 0.1% of range) on existing ballistic missiles are already in use, I doubt their (or digital INS's) mass would be a limitation.

@The Deterrent
Mechanical gyros are just a small part in the whole guidance and control set up my friend.You need to have an "error" to correct it right(in a close guidance and control loop).Gyro in the case is a part of your guidance systems whereas fins/actuators/TVC are part of your control system as you'd already know .Now the important thing is, LRG/FOGs and MEMS based actuators reduce the weight of your payload by good enough margin.Now how "good enough" depends on the degree of usage of MEMS systems.
As i said ,i know pretty less about the miniaturization of nuclear warheads as i have never read any research papers on this- probably because i am more into signal processing and control

 

[The Deterrent]

@The Deterrent
Mechanical gyros are just a small part in the whole guidance and control set up my friend.You need to have an "error" to correct it right(in a close guidance and control loop).Gyro in the case is a part of your guidance systems whereas fins/actuators are part of your control system as you'd already know .Now the important thing is,using LRG/FOGs and MEMS based actuators reduce the weight of your payload by good enough margin.Now how "good enough" depends on the degree of usage of MEMS systems.

I agree, they do reduce the payload by some amount.

 

[kaku1]

Mechanical gyros are just a small part in the whole guidance and control set up my friend.You need to have an "error" to correct it right.Gyro in the case is a part of your guidance systems whereas fins/actuators are part of your contorl system as you'd already know .Now the important thing is,using LRG/FOGs and MEMS based actuators reduce the weight of your payload by good enough margin.Now how "good enough" depends on the degree of usage of MEMS systems.
As i said ,i know pretty less about the miniaturization of nuclear warheads as i have never read any research papers on this- probably because i am more into signal processing and control

Yaar, if you asking that Pak missile program is on par of Indian program, then no, its not. Pak cant match funding and R&D capability of India.

But actually they doesnt need to match, the weapon is all about satisfying the demand of Armed Forces and there operational needs. And Pak missile program satisfying fine.

 

[amardeep mishra]

I agree, they do reduce the payload by some amount.

Hi @The Deterrent
i am uploading rate gyro and rate integrating gyro Just for the benefit of other members so that they too can get a feel of what we are discussing here.(Picture couresy:measurement systems -ernst doeblin and Dhanesh Manik)
Rate gyro as you know is the one that measures the absolute angular velocity(angular velocity is one half of the curl of linear velocity) and is widely used to generate stabilizing signal in an aerial vehicle.In the picture below one can see three rate gyros for three different axis!

A rate integrating gyro on the other hand (as the name suggests- integrates the angular velocity- hence it measures absolute angular displacement) is used to provide fixed reference(popularly known as set point in control systems engineering) in navigation and attitude control systems.As one can clearly see the bulky design of the honeywell's rate integrating gyros.

A FOG on the other hand works on the same principle as a LRG except that instead of carefully sealed,gas filled laser cavities and precision mirrors are replaced by long coil of optical fibre.Here in these "optical" gyros we are concerned with the phase shift(DS) between two light waves(one travelling in the direction of rotation and one opposite to that).
DS=((2*pi*L*D*W)/(c*l))
where L- length of coil
D-effective coil dia
W-angular velocity about the sensitive axis
c- velocity of light
l- mean optical wavelength.
The phase shift in actual application is very very feeble and hence require some serious signal processing

A more modern MEMS based gyros and accelerometers have been developed that utilize coriolis principle and quartz crystal to measure either the absolute angular displacement or absolute angular velocity.I will be posting the picture of MEMS based system pretty soon!

@The Deterrent

here is the cutting edge MEMS based gyro- available as gyro chip).Here in this case,a micro-machines quartz tuning crystal is used to implement a coriolis scheme.The reduction in weight from mechanical spinning wheel type gyros to MEMS based Coriolis scheme gyros is immense.Now imagine extensive application of MEMS from simple temperature sensor or accelerometer to actuators that will make big hydraulic systems redundant and obsolete!As in any other MEMS based system,micro machining along with packaging the quartz in an electronic circuit on an IC(along with all the amplifiers and filters) is a challenging task- one that a very very few countries can do

 

[Dillinger]

Hi @The Deterrent
i am uploading rate gyro and rate integrating gyro Just for the benefit of other members so that they too can get a feel of what we are discussing here.(Picture couresy:measurement systems -ernst doeblin and Dhanesh Manik)
Rate gyro as you know is the one that measures the absolute angular velocity(angular velocity is one half of the curl of linear velocity) and is widely used to generate stabilizing signal in an aerial vehicle.In the picture below one can see three rate gyros for three different axis!
View attachment 193696
A rate integrating gyro on the other hand (as the name suggests- integrates the angular velocity- hence it measures absolute angular displacement) is used to provide fixed reference(popularly known as set point in control systems engineering) in navigation and attitude control systems.As one can clearly see the bulky design of the honeywell's rate integrating gyros.

A FOG on the other hand works on the same principle as a LRG except that instead of carefully sealed,gas filled laser cavities and precision mirrors are replaced by long coil of optical fibre.Here in these "optical" gyros we are concerned with the phase shift(DS) between two light waves(one travelling in the direction of rotation and one opposite to that).
DS=((2*pi*L*D*W)/(c*l))
where L- length of coil
D-effective coil dia
W-angular velocity about the sensitive axis
c- velocity of light
l- mean optical wavelength.
The phase shift in actual application is very very feeble and hence require some serious signal processing

A more modern MEMS based gyros and accelerometers have been developed that utilize coriolis principle and quartz crystal to measure either the absolute angular displacement or absolute angular velocity.I will be posting the picture of MEMS based system pretty soon!

@The Deterrent

here is the cutting edge MEMS based gyro- available as gyro chip).Here in this case,a micro-machines quartz tuning crystal is used to implement a coriolis scheme.The reduction in weight from mechanical spinning wheel type gyros to MEMS based Coriolis scheme gyros is immense.Now imagine extensive application of MEMS from simple temperature sensor or accelerometer to actuators that will make big hydraulic systems redundant and obsolete!As in any other MEMS based system,micro machining along with packaging the quartz in an electronic circuit on an IC(along with all the amplifiers and filters) is a challenging task- one that a very very few countries can do

For anyone who has checked the DRDO's publications on their precision munitions program, specially the detailed bit about the the new guidance kit and tail unit they've been testing, it becomes pretty clear how far we've come with regard to MEMS.

The research in solid fuel, grain, material is progressing at break neck speed, something better than what's on the A-5 is on the block, and its what we need to get the following : - 14-12 meters height, 2.2+- meters width, throw weight 2000 kg, range of 6000 km.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Hi @Dillinger
Long time no see! what you upto man?
Here is the pic that i was trying to upload but couldnt because of my piss poor net connection..:p
i had a lot of pics in my mind while i was writing my above post on gyros!i even wanted to upload them but couldnt do...

@The Deterrent
This is the picture of MEMS based gyro,notice how small it is vis-a-vis LRG/FOG!

@Dillinger

i dont know how does pakistan by-passes all the technological challenges faced by india while designing these systems.What i find most frustrating is the criminal lack of research papers on pakistani side- as if either they dont really do any meaningful research or they just have grown over dependent on china

 

[kurup]

For anyone who has checked the DRDO's publications on their precision munitions program, specially the detailed bit about the the new guidance kit and tail unit they've been testing, it becomes pretty clear how far we've come with regard to MEMS.

The research in solid fuel, grain, material is progressing at break neck speed, something better than what's on the A-5 is on the block, and its what we need to get the following : - 14-12 meters height, 2.2+- meters width, throw weight 2000 kg, range of 6000 km.

A5 or A4 ??

What will be the total weight of the system ??

 

[amardeep mishra]

For anyone who has checked the DRDO's publications on their precision munitions program, specially the detailed bit about the the new guidance kit and tail unit they've been testing, it becomes pretty clear how far we've come with regard to MEMS.

@Dillinger
Yes,that is true,I too have gone through their publication on MEMS based gyros and LRGs/FOGs...I wonder when DRDO can publish the details of FOGs/LRGs,then why cant pakistan?after all these are dual-use tech as it can be equally applied to other civilian vehicles as well.I mean the whole international community wouldnt just embargo pakistan on the basis of a research paper on guidance systems or the LRGs/FOGs- except that probably there is no such thing as "pakistani designed LRGs"!

 

[AUz]

i dont know how does pakistan by-passes all the technological challenges faced by india while designing these systems.What i find most frustrating is the criminal lack of research papers on pakistani side- as if either they dont really do any meaningful research or they just have grown over dependent on china

How many research papers Pakistani scientists published regarding nuclear fission and building of an atomic design before 1998?

And what do you mean by dependent on China?

Pakistan can make as many current weapon systems as it wants...Its not like for every new Shaheen-II nuclear missile, we go to China to take their help.

Pakistan's only challenge is India..and that challenge has be dealt with pretty well.

Yeah, if we want to develop an ICBM system..then we might need some Chinese help and technical know how...but that's what every country does.

Russians helped India with their ICBM program as well.

 

[gslv mk3]

Yeah, if we want to develop an ICBM system..then we might need some Chinese help and technical know how...but that's what every country does.

Russians helped India with their ICBM program as well.

Nopes

 

[AUz]

Nopes

Relax, they did.

It is almost an impossibility that indian scientists didn't get any Russian help/training and just developed ICBM on their own 100% !!!

Even Russians got bunch of stuff from Americans and Americans from Germans and so on..

That's how development happen.