K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile test on January 31

[faithfulguy]

When you failed on debating the issue. Than you make personal attacks. Very Indian like.

 

[egodoc222]

Type is not mentioned in press release, but it definitely was not a pontoon, there are no tugs in the video for miles.

For where do you think the video is taken?

 

[Rangila]

Still pontoon tests?
Actual Arihant platform is sick with high temperature.
Russians have been roped in.
Wait 3 more years.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I have raised this many times over on this forum. There are no videos available on youtube. Please link us if you have any, where the missile, of any K series have been fired from Arihant or any Indian subs.

For the other bold part. Its a wrong assumption. Pontoons are used to test the actual missile and other parameters associated with it. BUT to mate the missile with sub and launch it, is completely different ball game. Consider this same as having land based missiles on TEL and test them using TEL. This is also an area where India critically lags behind, the TELs for its Agni series.

Already been done. You dont need to see nothing, it's been in weapon trials to fire out K-series. You didnt see the first 9+ test firing of the K15s, till the very last trials of it, doesnt mean it didnt happen.

http://www.spsnavalforces.com/exclusive/?id=197&h=Arihant-Successfully-Executes-Weapon-Ejection

There is no video of K-4 or any Missile being fired from Arihant.
Infact there is no video of Arihant being actually sailing in the sea.

You may not see a video of it in the sea, but there are few images.

 

[Centurion2016]

Pakistanis reek of jealousy and envy.
They see the multi billion dollar projects like nuke subs and carriers and go into denile moad.deny this all you like

Agni five
arihant nuke subs
k4,slbm
k15 slbm
Massive GDP
Massive forex reserves
Massive military budget
Massive military power

Is not going away

It's in your faces

Learn to accept Indian status and power

 

[ranadd]

Manna kaka. What I said is very valid point. India repeated testing from pontoons means that either India doesn't have confidence to mate the missiles with sub or lack the know how or simple pissing in the air due to uncontrollable bravado abouts it's second strike capability.

Your Ford vs merc argument is laughable. Ford can be mastang as well. Ford with working engine is more of a car then merc without. Hope this gets you out of your delusion.

I can only petty you on your false bravado. We work on first strike. Rest assured from Delhi all the way to andaman and nicobar and whatever is in between will be vaprozied with impunity. Our land based fully mobile BMs are enough to make mince meat out of India.

For the second strike option. In case of impending hostility, we can place one sub each on both flanks of India with one on standby. Situation will change drastically further with the arrival of 8 Chinese subs. PN will only strike in case we are in worst case scenario are caught napping and struck with first strike by one of Indian allies like America. India itself is not stupid to commit such act. PN subs are just an insurance policy, our land based BMs are more then capable to do the job first time around.

Ofcourse India is not confident in launching K4 (in development & experimental) missile from a submarine. That is the problem of developing things on own and buying stuff.

Again, Ford vs Merc went over your head. If you want to talk about Mustang, I would speak about AMG, not Merc. Please, focus when you refute.

False bravado? When spoken with range, EEZ zones, weapon systems used by OTHER nations?

So you do agree there are limited number of submarines to deploy. Now try to think what that means for other nations. Easier to track. Satellites and Planes are not for show.

But what you said is true. Pakistan will always strike first. Something Indian Government will count on.

Veering off topic.

 

[foxtrot1]

There is no video of K-4 or any Missile being fired from Arihant.
Infact there is no video of Arihant being actually sailing in the sea.

there is no video of BM missile hitting target
there is no video of any submarine from where it was launched
there is no sign on submarine that it was Pakistani, could be Chinese
There is no sign or video of any of your missile being developed in Pakistan
There is no sign of any warhead production.

There fore all your missiles are Chinese. And you just bought for 1/4th of price and in return sold your PSE stocks to Chinese at 80% reduced cost.

 

[razgriz19]

there is no video of BM missile hitting target
there is no video of any submarine from where it was launched
there is no sign on submarine that it was Pakistani, could be Chinese
There is no sign or video of any of your missile being developed in Pakistan
There is no sign of any warhead production.

There fore all your missiles are Chinese. And you just bought for 1/4th of price and in return sold your PSE stocks to Chinese at 80% reduced cost.

It was B3 was launched from a pontoon.

And here's a video of Nasr, A ballistic missile, hitting its target.

 

[SDS1]

It was B3 was launched from a pontoon.

And here's a video of Nasr, A ballistic missile, hitting its target.

A) in 0.09 Sec Frame , we can one missile go haywire ....gone off the course. one can see the smoke signal , missile going straight up and other missile , going making parabolic path.

B) In 0.34 Sec Frame , Missile dropped vertically from Sky, 90 Degree straight which is Highly Impossible when Missile making parabolic path.

only dead bombs drop like that ....

let me know if Any missile make 90 degree turn in the world.

 

[razgriz19]

A) in 0.09 Sec Frame , we can one missile go haywire ....gone off the course. one can see the smoke signal , missile going straight up and other missile , going making parabolic path.

B) In 0.34 Sec Frame , Missile dropped vertically from Sky, 90 Degree straight which is Highly Impossible when Missile making parabolic path.

only dead bombs drop like that ....

let me know if Any missile make 90 degree turn in the world.

Just because i'm feeling generous, i'll throw a video in there too

http://www.efootage.com/stock-footage/20158/Pershing_Ii_Missile_Hits_Target/

any more questions?

 

[razgriz19]

Pershing II is a pretty big difference from NASR though - ATACMS or Iskander are better analogs - It's closest cousin is the Chinese DF-21 series which is also though to be able to perform such radical mid-flight maneuvering, especially when used as an AsBM.

But yes, you're correct that Pershing II's warhead, a Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle can make the movements in question. Pershing II was the second anti-ship ballistic missile behind the Russian R-27K and predating DF-21D, thanks largely to its MaRV warheads active homing.

I understand what you're saying about two different classes of missile, but it was the only video i could find with the missile being perpendicular to ground as the Indian requested.
One thing i did notice during my search is that nobody posts videos of their Ballistic missiles hitting target...

 

[SDS1]

Just because i'm feeling generous, i'll throw a video in there too

http://www.efootage.com/stock-footage/20158/Pershing_Ii_Missile_Hits_Target/

any more questions?

yes , these are 2 Stage missile , where 2nd stage (warhead maneuvering take plane upper atmosphere )

Talk about 60KM missile, what max height it can reach?

I understand what you're saying about two different classes of missile, but it was the only video i could find with the missile being perpendicular to ground as the Indian requested.
One thing i did notice during my search is that nobody posts videos of their Ballistic missiles hitting target...

do you have the pic of missile ??

 

[razgriz19]

yes , these are 2 Stage missile , where 2nd stage (warhead maneuvering take plane upper atmosphere )

Talk about 60KM missile, what max height it can reach?

Changing the topic eh?, how petty.
You said a ballistic missile, didn't specify single stage or anything else. Anyway, here is another video (posted originally by @Fenrir )of a single stage short range missile. And watch the video carefully, listen to the guy. Vertical drop means higher accuracy. Although this one has a range of 160km - 300km, but it falls in the same category. And if you still want to argue, just remember Nasr has shorter range which means it has less time and altitude to perform such complicated maneuver..just goes on to show the might of Pakistani ballistic missile program!

 

[Peshwa]

Unlike India which proclaim every little achievement for bragging purposes, the rest of the world keep their development a secret. So the world owes India a big thanks for being so transparent.

I suppose to you, lauching a cruise missile from a pontoon but claiming it to be from a sub is not bragging, but questioning it is.
So be it!
Don't see how that changes capabilities, bragging or straight up lying to prove a capability that has not been proven.
Besides, except for running useless commentary, you have contributed nil to the discussion.
Care to tackle the question at hand or are you here simply to rack up post numbers with your one liners?

How about you watch the clip because with your reading glasses on because there are plenty of clues in there which can be corroborated with official ISPR release.

I suppose when doling out "clues" so generously, they forgot to mention that a guaranteed second strike capability requires two things, a vessel which you don't have and a "strategic" missile that can cause unacceptable damage which a SLCM does not serve.
Anyways, if Pakistan is so forthcoming with regards to showcasing its weapon, why the secrecy around the launch pad? Makes no sense.

India has always maintained that its tests are from submerged pontoons. Submarine launch has not been claimed. Though we do have the BM and the Vessel (arihant) ready and acknowledged by the world to prove it.

First and foremost, unlike Indians tests, there was no tug within miles of vicinity of the launch site. I can't emphasis more on this point

.

Why is the tug the only proof you need? Wouldn't the actual sub in your arsenal that can deliver this capability be a more assertive proof?
Why isn't ISPR making this public and why are you not questioning it. The ISPR itself has not claimed to launch from a sub, so how can you be so sure my friend?

A

nd if you have seen the trajectory of Babur 3 just after it emerged from the sea, almost at 45 degree, one can easily say that it wasn't fired from VLS but through torpedo tubes

Maybe I'm not as up to speed as you, but can you help me find literature to show that a torpedo tube can fire an SLCM with a vertical trajectory? As is the case with Babur 3
Because to my knowledge it isn't possible.

And yes we are waiting for India to show us when and if it's second strike capability will be ready.

When they are mated with the arihant, we will.

@Fenrir i suppose I am not knowledgeable enough on this subject but can you throw light on whether a torpedo tube can fire a CM with a vertical tragectory? Would also love your opinion on my discussion with @Taimoor Khan
Thanks in advance. Not a technical guy, so simply relying on read knowledge and logic, maybe you can help clear the doubts. Thanks in advance

 

[Fenrir]

@Fenrir i suppose I am not knowledgeable enough on this subject but can you throw light on whether a torpedo tube can fire a CM with a vertical trajectory?

In the case of SLCMs, yes they can be delivered via torpedo tube and take a vertical trajectory once they breech the water. In the case of harpoon, it's carried by a canister to the water's surface where the missile then breeches and is fired:

This is what the Harpoon looks like while still in its canister:

They are launched from torpedo tubes in the same manner as any other torpedo by submarines that lack a VLS system, like Japan's Soryu Class:

Primarily being an anti-ship missile, with the block II having the capacity to strike land targets, Harpoon takes on a more flat trajectory and opts for a sea-skimming attack run, though they also have a dive-on-target, top-attack mode too which sees them take a higher flight profile and dive on their target from above.

Other submarine launched missiles, ones also fired from torpedo tubes, and on newer boats VLS systems, have largely the same method of delivery, with some differences. Tomahawk isn't launched in an encapsulation or canister, but is ejected from the torpedo tubes via water-impulse (Torpedo tubes) or gas propulsion (VLS). It floats quickly to the surface where its booster ignite carrying the missile along to its target, often in the vertical climb we see with the recent Babur test:

Missiles fire from VLS tubes, like this Tomahawk Block III launched from SSN 774 take a more vertical initial climb, but level off during the duration of their flight. Notice the scoop and wings have yet to deploy.

That isn't always the case however. This photo from HMS Astute shows a TLAM Block III being launched from the submarine's torpedo tubes on a very high trajectory - just like the Babur video:

What we saw with Babur is within the norm for submarine launched missiles, though Babur was believed to have been launched via a submerged testing barge rather then a submarine.

Long story short: yes, it's possible to achieve a vertical trajectory with a torpedo tube launched cruise missile.