Justice (R) Wajihuddin's party membership suspended. lol

[Neutron]

So being salaried makes you exempt from the constitution and you give up your rights?

In companies employees are willing to surrender thier right as the are getting salaries. It is thier own intrest. If they are not agree with the terms and conditions no one can suspend thier right of free speech.

 

[Jzaib]

Every party in the world is not the criteria when it comes to constitution. We are discussing what is the legal position of this act under constitution? Constitution never limits criticism on party matters it only restricts to reveal national secrets under official secret act. Article freedom of speech protects the right of free speech less matters covered under official secret act. You can't drag party discipline into this. There was not any national secret revealed by the justice. I am not his fan or supporter. My question is regarding implementation of constitutional rights. With high expectations from IK I thought he is different from mainstream politicians. But now I am forced to think due to his decision if he can't enforce constitutional rights in his party against his will how he will enforce constitutional rights all over the country. Allow me to explain freedom of speech is the basic fundamental right and no one is allowed to suspend it without constitutional ammendment.

So that means altaf should be allowed to speak as well. He is given right by constitution to speak what ever he think is true . right?
every company in Pakistan do that. we are not allowed to tell our company secret, if i do that i will be expelled.
so wajih is bound by party discipline and not to leak reports which he made himself . then after being notified not to do that and he still choose to do it. Not its his fault .

 

[syedali73]

So being salaried makes you exempt from the constitution and you give up your rights?

What I am trying to say is, political parties are not corporations, nor are those run how one would run a corporation. What happened to Tasneem Noorani's report? this report predates Wajih commission report that was also thrown into the bin at the whim of 'chaar ka tola'. Why IK is not taking action on the recommendations made by two commission appointed by IK himself? What was the need of this drama if he had to run party through big donors alone? This is not a recent issue, it has reached to this point because IK refused to address to the concerns of the ideological workers. Now the matters have gone beyond party discipline, because if Justice saheb has not been adhered to party regulations, IK has committed the same crime too by trashing the recommendations made by two commissions. What you call a person who protects criminals? Even the audios are available of what Aleem Khan has done during Cantonment board elections. IK is the party leader, yes, but not above the law.

 

[Jango]

In companies employees are willing to surrender thier right as the are getting salaries. It is thier own intrest. If they are not agree with the terms and conditions no one can suspend thier right of free speech.

You aren't willing to surrender your rights, you are only willing to surrender to their rules.

If you were willing to surrender your rights, then why do employee unions make such a ruckus about work timings? Work conditions and stuff like that? You have surrendered your rights to such laws haven't you?

or do you surrender only some rights and not others?

Similarly, after being affiliated with a party, you agree to it's rules and are willing to surrender to their rules.

In a company, if you go against their gag order, they can't suspend your right of free speech but they can kick your backside out of the company.

Similarly, a party can expel a member from it if he goes against the rules.

 

[Jzaib]

What I am trying to say is, political parties are not corporations, nor are those run how one would run a corporation. What happened to Tasneem Noorani's report? this report predates Wajih commission report that was also thrown into the bin at the whim of 'chaar ka tola'. Why IK is not taking action on the recommendations made by two commission appointed by IK himself? What was the need of this drama if he had to run party through big donors alone? This is not a recent issue, it has reach to this point because IK refused to address to the concerns of the ideological workers. Now the matters have gone beyond party discipline, because if Justice saheb has not been adhered to party regulations, IK has committed the same crime too by trashing the recommendations made by two commissions. What you call a person who protects criminals? He is the party leader, yes, but not above the law.

what ideological workers. ?? he affiliated himself with party after miserably failing in 2008 election

since when JK and perveez khattak is a criminal . if they are how can they in parliament ( taking about khattak). No judge can tell who is ideological and who is not . JK was affiliated with imran long before wajih joined PTI (after PTI rise)

again if my father is supporting imran since 1995. should he get MPA ticket just bcoz he supported imran. I dnt understand a concept. u work for party bcoz u believe in it not bcoz u want a seat.

 

[Jango]

What I am trying to say is, political parties are not corporations, nor are those run how one would run a corporation. What happened to Tasneem Noorani's report? this report predates Wajih commission report that was also thrown into the bin at the whim of 'chaar ka tola'. Why IK is not taking action on the recommendations made by two commission appointed by IK himself? What was the need of this drama if he had to run party through big donors alone? This is not a recent issue, it has reach to this point because IK refused to address to the concerns of the ideological workers. Now the matters have gone beyond party discipline, because if Justice saheb has not been adhered to party regulations, IK has committed the same crime too by trashing the recommendations made by two commissions. What you call a person who protects criminals? He is the party leader, yes, but not above the law.

Bhai I am not arguing this specific decision, I think it is wrong. Apnay paon par kulhari hai.

But somebody please explain to me this whole 'freedom of speech' thing. I hate this little phrase, "freedom of speech". There is no such thing as freedom of speech in this world. The limits of that 'freedom' are always defined according to the prejudices of a certain community or society.

So being a corporations makes you exempt from all laws and constitution?

 

[khawaja07]

Idk exactly about Justice Wajiuddin but Since Hamid Khan contested from my constituency, i know bits about him also my father knows stuff about him since he's a political nerd.

Personally, after the 2013 elections, i saw Hamid khan as a very weak candidate and iam surprised how IK saw him competent enough to run campaign from NA-125. Even the next day of the elections, alot of people who never came out to vote in previous elections but came out in 2013, did come to Defence chowk in order to protest for our rights, we saw no sign of Hamid Khan supporting our cause. He has a stupid laid back attitude which comes to no use in such situations.

Now from what i heard from my dad since he regularly visits courts due to his own matters for 30+ years(and ofcourse he's a political nerd). Hamid khan is a basically a politician within the judiciary. He's like Chaudhary iftekhar's puppy as you would like to put it. Even today, when the SC verdict on Military courts came out, he was the one opposing it solely. He knows more how to run board office in judiciary rather than as a political worker. With this attitude he's of no use to PTI neither does he work hard for the party. He also opposes any people or politicians affiliated with Musharraf.

 

[Neutron]

You aren't willing to surrender your rights, you are only willing to surrender to their rules.

If you were willing to surrender your rights, then why do employee unions make such a ruckus about work timings? Work conditions and stuff like that? You have surrendered your rights to such laws haven't you?

Similarly, after being affiliated with a party, you agree to it's rules and are willing to surrender to their rules.

In a company, if you go against their gag order, they can't suspend your right of free speech but they can kick your backside out of the company.

Similarly, a party can expel a member from it if he goes against the rules.

What do you think what is the use of Article freedom of speech? It is useless considering your narrative as lawful

 

[Jango]

because if Justice saheb has not been adhered to party regulations, IK has committed the same crime too by trashing the recommendations made by two commissions.

I have already agreed to that.

 

[syedali73]

what ideological workers. ?? he affiliated himself with party after miserably failing in 2008 election

since when JK and perveez khattak is a criminal . if they are how can they in parliament ( taking about khattak). No judge can tell who is ideological and who is not . JK was affiliated with imran long before wajih joined PTI (after PTI rise)

Please do not oversimplify it. It is not only Justice Wajih who is expressing concerns, there are people behind him who have joined the party way before him.

@Jazzbot : Bhai, you are one balanced PTI supporter, please enlighten us with your opinion.

 

[Jango]

What do you think what is the use of Article freedom of speech? It is useless considering your narrative as lawful

Isn't is useless?

Do you see freedom of speech being exercised anywhere?

Freedom of speech is basically, for the lack of a better word, 'phuddu' as we say in Urdu.

Jahan acha lagay laga do, jahan na lagay na lagao.

Refer to post 51 for more.

 

[Jzaib]

Please do not oversimplify it. It is not only Justice Wajih who is expressing concerns, there are people behind him who have joined the party way before him.

@Jazzbot : Bhai, you are one balanced PTI supporter, please enlighten us with your opinion.

again those supporters couldn't win a single seat in more then a decade. only imran was winning his own seat . B4 khalid bin waleed bcom muslim he was the commander who attacked muslim, then when he embraced islam he was leading muslim army. He was given this place bcoz he was competent. same goes for muslim league many of their main party heads was in congress.
And again justice wajih joined hands with hamid khan who is also a free loader. Now i can exactly tell why hamid khan is speaking against imran khan and joined hands with him . if you talk on phn i could even show you proofs

 

[Neutron]

Isn't is useless?

Do you see freedom of speech being exercised anywhere?

Freedom of speech is basically, for the lack of a better word, 'phuddu' as we say in Urdu.

Jahan acha lagay laga do, jahan na lagay na lagao.

Refer to post 51 for more.

Bro it is part of basic fundamental rights. And no one is allowed to suspend fundamental rights without constitutional ammendment. The problem of Pakistan is same. We never or not like to enforce our constitution. If you enforce all sitting parliamentarian including NS will be disqualified by default

 

[khawaja07]

With regards to Freedom of speech, There's no complete freedom of speech or such thing in political parties. There's a party constitution and as a member you have to adhere to it. In every party, discussing internal party matters openly is strictly not allowed because it ruins the party's image to the public with them knowing little about the matters and dealings inside the party and also deals damage to the party.

Still Justice Wajiuddin is no Javed Hashmi even he denied some stupid claims when an anchour asked if there was some talk of some retired generals trying to derail PTI during the dharna days. I still respect him however can't say the same about Hamid Khan.

 

[syedali73]

So being a corporations makes you exempt from all laws and constitution?

Even though posing a question in reply to a question is bad in taste but I'll do it nonetheless. What you suggest? that he should have kept quite and never expressed his concerns? if yes, why do we curse Farooq Sattar, Pervaiz Rasheed, Qaim Ali Shah for defending every wrong or right move by their respective leaders? Why we call them toe-lickers and more loyal than the king? Bhai, do we need to change this culture of slave -like allegiance or not?

 

[Jango]

Bro it is part of basic fundamental rights. And no one is allowed to suspend fundamental rights without constitutional ammendment. The problem of Pakistan is same. We never or not like to enforce our constitution. If you enforce all sitting parliamentarian including NS will be disqualified by default

Yar Pakistan main (and most of the world) kdhr fundamental rights hain?

I gave you the example of a company before, you can't discuss internal workings in public. You can't go out and say "My company's VP is a thief and he is a crook" and then say it was freedom of speech.

As I have argued many times before, "Freedom of speech" is a utopian term, not applicable in the real world as of today. In Any country.

As I said before, freedom of speech is always defined by the underlying prejudices of a society or community. Har kisi ka freedom of speech alag hota hai.

Even though posing a question in reply to a question is bad in taste but I'll do it nonetheless. What you suggest? that he should have kept quite and never expressed his concerns? if yes, why do we curse Farooq Sattar, Pervaiz Rasheed, Qaim Ali Shah for defending every wrong or right move by their respective leaders? Why we call them toe-lickers and more loyal than the king? Bhai, do we need to change this culture of slave -like allegiance or not?

Again, I am not arguing this specific case.

Merely arguing the point that some have brought up regarding free speech.

Having a difference of opinion is something different, defending your leader's talk or not is different, laying bare all the internal workings of a party is different.

Farooq Sattar, Pervez Rashid, Qaim Ali Shah do not go around telling every willy nilly thing in their party...Pervez Rashid doesn't go around saying that us din PM house main meri aur Ch Nisar ki larayi hui thi or Farooq Sattar doesn't say sometihng like that.

Secondly, good thing you brought this issue up. Do you know that in our national assembly, a member has to vote according to his party's policy or he gets booted out? So where is free speech then? Freedom goes right out the window huh? In our very own Assembly.

Again, I am not advocating that Justice Wajih should be suspended, or this is a right move. This is not. And I protest this. Paghal pan hai yeh.

But the freedom of speech argument is wrong in my opinion.

If this would have been any other person, let's say Mr A, think about it. There is a party rule that no one talks about internal matters in the media. Mr A does. Violates the party rules. Gets suspended. Simple, and just.

But you and I both know it doesn't work like that in the real world.

So on the face of it, Justice Wajih is rightly suspended. But in reality, paghal pan hai to suspend him.