Junaid Jamshed - Canada

[Evil Flare]

thats not the aswner of his question, I repeat his question

Hazrat Amir Khusro and the great Sufi Saints who wrote their own poetry and put it to music and sung it were all engaging in a haram act?



yes

Music is haraam ..

Countless Ahadees is here to Prove ...

 

[TechLahore]

I understand your annoyance with the tableeghis, but Perhaps you should heed your own advice first by controlling your anger towards the uninvited guests. whether invited or not, guests are guests and their status in Islam is well known, and by virtue of their presence, you're supposed to remain patient and hospitable towards them. Studying in the US your islamic books havn't taught you this aspect of faith it seems.

An interesting but entirely ridiculous twist on reality. There is a difference between guests and trespassers. People that show up at your door uninvited, shouting through the window and banging on the door loudly are not guests. They are there in the interest of pursuing their own agenda of solicitation. The law is pretty clear on how you can deal with trespassers should you so choose.

Secondly, JJ losing temper over Shoaib Mansur according to some unsubstantiated report whose details r shrouded in mystery and unverified is a reason enough for you to self-righteously villify him and issue condemnations of sorts on his personal life and doings. I doubt JJ was "beating down your damn door" in the US as you so dramatically and exaggeratingly put it.

Read the article again. You obviously haven't understood the context. Junaid asked Salman Ahmad to join his tableeghi brigade. Salman refused and Junaid - true to his intolerant belief system - lost his temper. What would substantiate these reports? If Salman Ahmed said it himself in an interview? Hmm. Well, that's exactly where the report came from.

And oh by the way, the tableeghis didn't just stop at beating down my damn door, in one instance they forced their way in as my roommate was entering in the front door... in their typically oily and insidious manner. I asked them to leave politely and two of them sat on my living room carpet inviting me (Yeah, in my own house!) to sit with them. I had to ask them rather forcefully before they finally left.

last but not least, I see you have a lot of criticism and suggestions for the missionary work of tableeghis, it seem you know more about Islam than the missionaries as you so eloquently put it. Ever

You would have to try hard to not know more about Islam - or anything else for that matter - than most myopic tableeghis. Their reading list is rather limited, you know.

considered preaching and showing Islam by example? I'm sure a lot of people would be convinced through your rants and diatribes.

I don't believe in preaching and as the various Zakir Naik videos have undoubtedly demonstrated, rants and diatribes are best delivered by this crazed lot. I am living my life in peace and don't have a crisis of identity that would cause me to go knocking on people's doors to inflict my beliefs on them. They can keep these exhibitions of extreme insecurity to themselves.

That doesn't have to do with anything, but apparently the tone of your post seems to have a sectarian vibe. I dont blame you for this but i understand its natural to have sectarian leanings in Pakistan.

Sectarian vibe? Tell me, oh judgmental internet forum islamic scholar, what sect would that be? Now this is a skill that truly belies understanding... you guys can smell someone's sect across the internet! wah wah!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Sectarian vibe? Tell me, oh judgmental internet forum islamic scholar, what sect would that be? Now this is a skill that truly belies understanding... you guys can smell someone's sect across the internet! wah wah!

Judge me as well please

I am living my life in peace and don't have a crisis of identity that would cause me to go knocking on people's doors to inflict my beliefs on them

When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life. – Sigmund Freud

I don't believe in preaching and as the various Zakir Naik videos have undoubtedly demonstrated, rants and diatribes are best delivered by this crazed lot

hmmm, It will be interesting to know the stand of Fundamentalist etc on THIS

 

[TechLahore]

thats not the aswner of his question, I repeat his question

Hazrat Amir Khusro and the great Sufi Saints who wrote their own poetry and put it to music and sung it were all engaging in a haram act?



yes

Music is haraam ..

Countless Ahadees is here to Prove ...

Aamir Zia, so you are saying that Hazrat Amir Khusro, Hazrat Nizam ud din Aulia and the many saints in his line, Hazrat Jalaluddin Rumi and Hazrat Shams-e-Tabrezi all spent their lives indulging in haram acts? They taught haram acts. They invented instruments to allow others to indulge in haram acts? So by that coin, since a significant portion - probably the bulk - of their lives was spent spreading directly and indirectly, means and methods to pursue haram acts, then they all are probably going to hell in light of the ahadees you are threatening to cite?

That's just wonderful! It's good to have the choice spelt out clearly, so now we can all make up our minds for ourselves. Do we want to follow these so-called/alleged ahadith for which we have no hard historical corroboration in the sense of scholarly documentary validation acceptable to an impartial historian, OR whether we want to believe that Hazrat Nizam ud din Aulia, Hazrat Amir Khusro and the other luminaries of Islam I have cited above knew what they were talking about...

 

[Luftwaffe]

mr. tech take my post into context...I've not foretold anyone's fate. Glad you've read more of history therefore try not to insult or attack Caliphs of Islam..Fitna is a the worst thing among us but unfortunately people are flaming.
I think this line is for you that you posted..People like you who are quick to judge and act like Allah mian's chowkidars need to get a life. you were too quick to judge mr. Junaid and later on me its not me mr. tech so who is attacking who personally it is you! checkmate., look into your very first post on this thread nothing personal respectively. Infact what you said about mr junaid is called gheebat could have contacted Junaid and told him what he was doing..Lastly I did not attack you at any point not even about your fate..saying that to them is their deeds has nothing to do with fate it simply suggest their deeds Allah knows best whatever the outcome will be Allah Hu Alam. I do no know not a bit. So you should come out of that threatening mode.
I do not see Prophets as Professional Mullah it was for make you understand since you are the one to talk about professional mullahs in first place. And if you view Prophet's Companions as wrongdores and Insult/accuse them as you clearly did..you need some assistance and education on Islam you might have good deal of knowledge about Islam and history you're still far away from being a doctor of Islamic subject..

you said.."They were a creation of a subsequent historic period where the khalifas - more aptly described as kings - spent money to doctor ahadith, destroy holy places and create schisms in the muslim polity by using these commercial priests.There is really no place in Islam for a professional mullah. In fact, it is one of the ills of catholicism Islam was supposed to right... "
you need to present a great deal of credible proof to prove you point about Caliphs of Islam whatever you accuse them of.

 

[TechLahore]

it was for make you understand since you are the one to talk about professional mullahs in first place. And if you view Prophet's Companions as wrongdores and Insult/accuse them as you clearly did..you need some assistance and education on Islam you might have good deal of knowledge about Islam and history you're still far away from being a doctor of Islamic subject..

you said.."They were a creation of a subsequent historic period where the khalifas - more aptly described as kings - spent money to doctor ahadith, destroy holy places and create schisms in the muslim polity by using these commercial priests.There is really no place in Islam for a professional mullah. In fact, it is one of the ills of catholicism Islam was supposed to right... "
you need to present a great deal of credible proof to prove you point about Caliphs of Islam whatever you accuse them of.

If you didn't understand my post, you could have asked me rather than attack me.

You have completely misunderstood the point I was making in the passage you quote and have conveniently dropped the sentence right before it, which establishes the context. The other member was suggesting that mullahs were around since the time of the khulfa-e-rashideen. I told him that they were not an invention of the period of the first four caliphs, but were "a creation of a subsequent historic period". Subsequent, as you might know, means "after". So your entire premise of me somehow insulting the Khulfa-e-rashideen is on unsound footing.

What came after the four caliphs was, of course, monarchies, misery, nepotism and much more.

 

[Al-zakir]

All religious talk must be banned on this forum

Oh please!!!

Moderator is active on this thread and Ppobably can guide us safely incase things get bloody nevertheless I humbly invite you to ignore such thread and leave it for us to fight it out......

 

[mehru]

Whatever you guys say about Junaid or whether he did the right thing or wrong, i will only say one thing that Pakistan lost a very fine singer to extremism and i will always mourn his loss as he was my most favourite singer. His songs have helped me to go through very difficult times in my life so i will always miss him as a singer.

 

[Hyde]

oh please don't fight about Music Haram Music Halal

koi kaam ki baat bhi kar liya karo............ fazool bton pe hi apna time waste karte rahte ho

Jis ko sunna hai woh sunay jis ko nahi sunna woh naa sunay :anry: but don't divide yourself for one topic that itself is controvercial.

If it not a controversial we could have argued but here we will never come to conclusion then why waste your time on what will lead us to nowhere?

 

[waraich66]

What came after the four caliphs was, of course, monarchies, misery, nepotism and much more.

I dont agreed with you mod tech, do you know about Umar Bin Adbul Aziz era?

 

[T-Faz]

There is no compulsion in Islam, remember that.

 

[waraich66]

There is no compulsion in Islam, remember that.

Better read about Halal ,Haram , Pak and Na Pak .

Protect your self from Haram and Na Pak is Taqwa

 

[Hammy007]

i really dont like these people, these biddatis and who are doing naats such to show off to people, but the thread should not be for flaming, just this is my opinion

i really hate these extremist people who pass their judgemental remarks if some body is being more conservative in his feeling, i equally hate mullahs like them, but just simply stating these ppl are extremists of other kind.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

I would never understand one thing , if people in Pakistan are so religious then how come Pakistan is in top world most corrupt nations in the world?

All great people in any religion had one thing in common non was interested in love of wealth collection.

 

[waraich66]

I would never understand one thing , if people in Pakistan are so religious then how come Pakistan is in top world most corrupt nations in the world?

All great people in any religion had one thing in common non was interested in love of wealth collection.

You are right , as nation we not following golden principles of Islam .

Well Said Iqbal RA

Muslims are living in Indo Pakistan and Middle East but Western countries are following the Islamic Principles.

Who ever follow Islam will get benefit .