Junagadh dispute & Kashmir

[Goodperson]

Read that and understood it bhai. My earlier point that the politicians are playing politics still holds force. Pakistan will not remove their nationals and adhere to a ceasefire and India will not remove their troops and hold a plebiscite until Pakistan does so while Pakistan changes the goalpost and tells India "no you go first" is all fair and well for the Indians and the Pakistanis and even better for their politicians who stand on soapboxes telling their masses "now look how we will teach the other side a lesson." But the important point being missed out here is that the catch 22 situation only has one victim which is the people of Kashmir. They were an independent nation at the time of partition and their independence has been spat on by both India and Pakistan. No need to remind me that their king ceded his territory to India. Important thing is that a nation says give us the right to decide our destiny. Why can't India and Pakistan be magnaminous enough to say "we will jointly help you in deciding your destiny by giving you the chance to vote on it." From there the prospects for both India and Pakistan as allies will be breathtaking. An independent stable and wealthy Kashmir as a trade route between India , Pakistan and China can only benefit everybody. No huge armies facing each other between India and Pakistan and the emphasis is on trade and social upliftment. Sounds like utopia but we can dream

Read historical facts

Kashmirs accession to India

1. The Accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India, signed by the Maharaja (erstwhile ruler of the State) on 26th October, 1947, was completely valid in terms of the Government of India Act (1935), Indian Independence Act (1947) and international law and was total and irrevocable. The Accession was also supported by the largest political party in the state, the National Conference. In the Indian Independence Act, there was no provision for any conditional accession. The Instrument of Accession executed by the Maharaja was the same as the ones executed by over 500 princely states in India. There has been no complication in any of the other cases. There would have been none in this case either, except for Pakistan's action in sending in tribal invaders first (in October 1947) and its own regular troops later (May 1948).

2. Lord Mountbatten's acceptance of the Instrument of Accession was unconditional. He said: "I do hereby accept this Instrument of Accession". The Instrument of Accession was complete with the offer and acceptance.

3. There can, therefore, be no question of negotiating on the question of accession of the State of Jammu & Kashmir to India.


Its only Pakistan which calls it a disputed territory.

Have you heard any country conducting referendum of its own territory ? Just because neighbor eyes the real estate just because of religion?

 

[sadiqams]

India has no legal standing on kashmir. It has even no evidence of accession. You can not prove your case with out evidence. The Indians say they have lost the the evidence (the act of accession by the former ruler of kashmir). So the only way out now is to let the people of the whole state of Jummu and Kashmir decide on the basis of the Majority in accordance the United Nations resolutions.

 

[PakSher]

Once Indian Government id ready to arrest the RAW Indian Colonel that bombed the Samjotha Train Express and killed 93 Pakistan citizens and injured 180, we can disucss Qari Saeed. Indian terrorism also has to part of the issue.

 

[deckingraj]

Once Indian Government id ready to arrest the RAW Indian Colonel that bombed the Samjotha Train Express and killed 93 Pakistan citizens and injured 180, we can disucss Qari Saeed. Indian terrorism also has to part of the issue.

I was corrected by a fellow indian on this so thought i should spread the news...

a) Its a specualtion what Purohit is involved in Smajhauta Extress bombings. Investigations are on but nothing has been prooved. In fact UN has put sanctions agaisnt Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blast. An excerpt and few links

The attack was first blamed on Islamic militants from Pakistan. Initial media reports suggested that the prime suspects in the bombing were the Islamic groups Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, both of whom have been blamed for many high-profile bombings in the past.[39] But later Haryana police added some Hindu extremist groups to the list of suspects. Accordingly police from Haryana arrived in Mumbai to question the suspect in the latter case, Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit and sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, with possible connections to the attack. The two names came up after it was established that the suitcase bombs, which blew up the two bogies of the express train were assembled in Indore.[40] In Chandigarh, the Inspector General (Railway Police), K K Mishra, said that "our investigations in the Samjhauta probe had led us to Indore after we got clues that the suitcases and stitchings on them which were used in the explosions were procured from Indore."[41] India said it may share with Pakistan the latest developments in its investigations into the blasts but so far nothing new has been shared. [42] On July 1, 2009 the United States Treasury and UNSC put sanctions on Pakistan-based terrorist organization, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and named Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blasts.[43]

2007 Samjhauta Express bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US names Pak man for blasts on Samjhauta - India - The Times of India

b) As far as arrest is concerned he has already been arrested for a different case i.e. Malegoan Blast

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation



c) One more question...Did you ever question that who brought this whole purohit angle to samjhauta express??? ISI or Pakistani agency ?? No it was india's own investigation agencies...The point i am trying to prove here is that we have nothing to hide as far as purohit is concerned but cant just put all blame on him...

we can disucss Qari Saeed

Now would you mind discussin him???

 

[deckingraj]

India has no legal standing on kashmir. It has even no . You can not prove your case with out evidence. The Indians say they have lost the the evidence (the act of accession by the former ruler of kashmir). .

Buddy this is a very complex issue...Thanks to propagandist around both sides we would not know what truth is/was..However i found interesting articles...I liked it..you may not for obvious reasons...


Rediff On The NeT Special: The Real Kashmir Story


Another one which tend to give a more holistic picture..I personally liked it moe as its tone is comparatively neutral..

Kashmir: the unanswered question.

So the only way out now is to let the people of the whole state of Jummu and Kashmir decide on the basis of the Majority in accordance the United Nations resolutions

Hmmmm...i replied in some other thread against similar comments...That's not gonna happen...Kashmir is more of an ego issue b/w us ..otherwise do you see any reason of fighting it out on Siachen???? The best and practical solution is to change LOC to IB ang give more autonomy to both sides of Kashmir...

 

[Rajkumar]

guys , just one question for all of you.

you couldn't keep what was yours(bangladesh). they were treated like **** by PA and were not given equal rights until they fought for it. what is the guaranty you would have given equal rights to junagadhis or kashmiris or hydrabadis if these parts were parts of pakistan.

 

[toxic_pus]

India has no legal standing on kashmir. It has even no evidence of accession. You can not prove your case with out evidence. The Indians say they have lost the the evidence (the act of accession by the former ruler of kashmir). So the only way out now is to let the people of the whole state of Jummu and Kashmir decide on the basis of the Majority in accordance the United Nations resolutions.

Pray tell what are these:
View attachment b4a3e1306636b0da88dd7e402203cb04.png
View attachment bbc071e0f732b21b3954834500a7fbe5.png

Unbelievable, how you believe your own lies

 

[ice_man]

This has nothing to do with politics read the source patiently its not too long.

hile the current violence and disturbances instigated and abetted by Pakistan in the Kashmir Valley are there for all to see,

this is from your source article that is by the way no surprises hear an indian source!!!! see the writer of this article gets off on a bias note in his first line he says violence instigated by pakistan! what about indian army killing millions and besides he has already made up his mind before writting down "HIS story" so my friend he is actually distorting!!

the maharaja was in an exact same position as the nawab of junagardh in terms of his subjects were of different religion!

again the writer says pakistan complicated things....hmmm...and i am supposed to believe him...

lord mountbatten was in a triangle involving nehru & the lords wife!!

again the writer follows up with a line even though india's stand was correct it still agreed for a plebiscite...

NO point arguing further! how can you carry on when you say even though i am correct i will still hold a plebiscite....you can't have your conclusion before the negotiations!

 

[ice_man]

I was reading about Hafeez Muhammad Saeed sometime back. he also has the junagarh and hyderabad in his agenda along with kashmir. the primary theory is start with kashmir and once you get it start for junagarh and then for hyderabad.

But for now he enjoys the protection from the Pakistan as an innocent clean civilian though being accused of many charges.

Is the same reason that Pakistan is protecting him?

Will it be really feasible to achieve aims of Junagarh liberation and Hyderabad liberation by such means,

what???? junagaradh is a part of india end of story!!! hafeez mohammed saeed their is a case lodged against him...if he is guilty he will be tried if he is innocent we will let him walk...!! but we are not going to give a judgement until proof is brought forward!

 

[ice_man]

I was corrected by a fellow indian on this so thought i should spread the news...

a) Its a specualtion what Purohit is involved in Smajhauta Extress bombings. Investigations are on but nothing has been prooved. In fact UN has put sanctions agaisnt Arif Qasmani and three other terrorists as conspirators of the Samjauta blast. An excerpt and few links



2007 Samjhauta Express bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US names Pak man for blasts on Samjhauta - India - The Times of India

b) As far as arrest is concerned he has already been arrested for a different case i.e. Malegoan Blast

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation



c) One more question...Did you ever question that who brought this whole purohit angle to samjhauta express??? ISI or Pakistani agency ?? No it was india's own investigation agencies...The point i am trying to prove here is that we have nothing to hide as far as purohit is concerned but cant just put all blame on him...


Now would you mind discussin him???

and india's justice is really BLIND!! jagdish tytler is a free man(behind golden temple issue)

advani ran for presidency ( behind the babri masjid issue)

none of the cases against anyone in india have ever been solved even though clear evidence is available!

 

[ice_man]

Hmmmm...i replied in some other thread against similar comments...That's not gonna happen...Kashmir is more of an ego issue b/w us ..otherwise do you see any reason of fighting it out on Siachen???? The best and practical solution is to change LOC to IB ang give more autonomy to both sides of Kashmir...

well this sadly is an INDIAN dream that might be realized under the current MR.10%....but in reality we can never make LoC the international border because that is not Pakistans stand that is solely INDIA's stand on the issue!!

and in your post you brought up siachen as well buddy india INVADED siachen so its not an ego issue it is an issue of OUR land being taken up by the enemy very similar infact identical to the issue of KARGIL! infact i will go out here on a limb and say if Siachen never happened KARGIL would have never happened!

 

[Hellfire]

well this sadly is an INDIAN dream that might be realized under the current MR.10%....but in reality we can never make LoC the international border because that is not Pakistans stand that is solely INDIA's stand on the issue!!

True enough. You guys have a very obstinate stance on the whole issue!

and in your post you brought up siachen as well buddy india INVADED siachen so its not an ego issue it is an issue of OUR land being taken up by the enemy very similar infact identical to the issue of KARGIL! infact i will go out here on a limb and say if Siachen never happened KARGIL would have never happened!

You just went out on a limb here buddy .... your land you say? Why then had you to invade 'your land' in 1948 in the first place I wonder?

Maybe because you were not invited or maybe you didnt belong there?
If its your land ..... you are most welcome to come and get it

and as for the analogy of Siachen and Kargil ..... you guys made a mess in both locations of a good plan ....... and they both were your plans

 

[Hellfire]

India has no legal standing on kashmir. It has even no evidence of accession. You can not prove your case with out evidence. The Indians say they have lost the the evidence (the act of accession by the former ruler of kashmir). So the only way out now is to let the people of the whole state of Jummu and Kashmir decide on the basis of the Majority in accordance the United Nations resolutions.

what was that? you want to surely implement the whole of UN resolution on Kashmir is that it? Are you sure?

then go through the text and start following it to the word if you have the guts

http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc21apr48.htm

 

[Goodperson]

hile the current violence and disturbances instigated and abetted by Pakistan in the Kashmir Valley are there for all to see,

this is from your source article that is by the way no surprises hear an indian source!!!! see the writer of this article gets off on a bias note in his first line he says violence instigated by pakistan! what about indian army killing millions and besides he has already made up his mind before writting down "HIS story" so my friend he is actually distorting!!

the maharaja was in an exact same position as the nawab of junagardh in terms of his subjects were of different religion!

again the writer says pakistan complicated things....hmmm...and i am supposed to believe him...

lord mountbatten was in a triangle involving nehru & the lords wife!!

again the writer follows up with a line even though india's stand was correct it still agreed for a plebiscite...

NO point arguing further! how can you carry on when you say even though i am correct i will still hold a plebiscite....you can't have your conclusion before the negotiations!

No India will never hold Plebiscite on its part of KashmireIts from official Indian site.
It would be better advice you Pakistani to have plebiscite in your provinces to set an example and to pressurize world to do the same in Kashmir.
Pakistan could have tried that with East Pakistan too in 1971.

 

[ice_man]

what was that? you want to surely implement the whole of UN resolution on Kashmir is that it? Are you sure?

then go through the text and start following it to the word if you have the guts

http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc21apr48.htm

First step Pakistan withdraws.....second step if India thinks that pakistan has withdrawn all tribesmen then they should withdraw themselves and the following is the main reason why pakistan would never withdraw!! and hence the whole UN resolution thing is a drama! by the UN and India

When the Indian forces shall have been reduced to the minimum strength mentioned in (a) above, arrange in consultation with the Commission for the stationing of the remaining forces to be carried out in accordance with the following principles:

1. That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of intimidation to the inhabitants of the State;

2. That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;

3. That any reserve of troops which may be included in the total strength should be located within their present base area.