Jordanian F-16 "Shot Down" by ISIS

[Oldman1]

Could be the likely case. What is odd and in my view a massive oversight is that no Search and Rescue team is kept ready at short notice to get to a pilot if he comes down.

Its not instant, especially in hostile territory. Gulf War has shown that coalition pilots can be captured before rescue.

 

[Mosamania]

Your thoughts got stuck at that level, can help you there. Lumping them there means that whatever funding, equipment push.. assistance was being shovelled in there.. invariably ended up with the Daesh as well.. whether by capture or by voluntary release. And what guarantee do we have that no Syrian rebels ended up joining Daesh.. whether by choice or by fear.

ISIS got momentum in recruitment from the Egyptian coup. The pro-MB islamists rebels joined ISIS en mass when that happened, because the MB could no longer achieve a viable trans-Arabic bloc as they came so close to achieving. Saudi Arabia never supplied any pro-MB Islamists.

Both Qatar and Turkey were pushing for a pro-MB post Assad Syria so they supplied rebels who would guarantee that. GCC minus Qatar are staunch anti-MB. To be exact the faction that is currently in power in Saudi Arabia is staunch Anti-MB. And Saudi Arabia did clean house shortly after the Egyptian coup of all pro-MB ministers and officials.

The rebels Saudi Arabia supplied were the secular FSA. FSA doesn't carry out filming of everything it does, but it is still the second largest rebel faction after ISIS in Syria currently. And ISIS is in a mission to destroy FSA, and the majority of battle in Syria is between the FSA who is stuck fighting ISIS from one hand the regime from the other. So you tell me. Who's thoughts are stuck?

 

[root]

Israel Mossad have very good presence in Iraq,Syria they are only one who can rescue him.

 

[Oldman1]

Israel Mossad have very good presence in Iraq,Syria they are only one who can rescue him.

Doubt they would do it.

 

[BuddhaPalm]

Deadly Chinese weapons. FN-6 is decades old. Our new manpads would take down F-22.

 

[SQ8]

The rebels Saudi Arabia supplied were the secular FSA. FSA doesn't carry out filming of everything it does, but it is still the second largest rebel faction after ISIS in Syria currently. And ISIS is in a mission to destroy FSA, and the majority of battle in Syria is between the FSA who is stuck fighting ISIS from one hand the regime from the other. So you tell me. Who's thoughts are stuck?

You are, under the naive ideals that somehow any equipment that ends up with the FSA is exclusive to them. Or that any effort to weaken the Assad regieme has little effect on how ISIS grows. In addition you are ignoring the open input ISIS gets from its donors of whom many are in the middle east itself.

After all, it begs the question as to how the FSA with all this purported funding is struggling and the ISIS with supposedly no funding or support is going strong.

Deadly Chinese weapons. FN-6 is decades old. Our new manpads would take down F-22.

Please come up with a better post than that. The FN-6 is decades old but like any weapon has its days of effects.. but there is NOTHING in the Chinese MANPAD arsenal that can get the Raptor.

 

[airmarshal]

@Mosamania I agree with your point Saudi Arabia isn't supporting ISIS. But the infection of terrorism and its ideology is the mutation of what was started by rich Middle East Arab countries as a way to increase their influence in Muslim world.

ISIS operates in your vicinity. Come to Pakistan and have a look at how the money and indoctrination of Saudi wahhabi sect & more generally of competing Arab ideologies has destroyed our society. The violent extremism is a big part of this influence.

Dont forget that this anti-shia 'crusade' is also part of this package.

Right now, as we speak, there are mullahs in Pakistan spewing hate against shias and preparing their students for 'jihad' and the source of financing is guess which countries - Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar.

 

[Hindustani78]

Its not instant, especially in hostile territory. Gulf War has shown that coalition pilots can be captured before rescue.

What you are saying here that there are Manpads under the control of ISIS and other groups can belongs to the Saddam Era.

There were articles way back in 2007 regarding all this.

Estimates of Iraq’s pre-war shoulder-fired missile holdings vary, most agree that Saddam’s regime accumulated several thousand Soviet-designed SA-7, SA-14 and SA-16 missiles, including more than 3,000 that it looted from Kuwaiti arsenals in 1990. Thousands of these missiles disappeared from Iraqi arsenals during the looting.

In November 2004, analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency estimated that 4000 of the missiles were still missing and, in turn, adjusted upward their estimate of black market manpads three-fold from 2000 to 6000. Given the demand for anti-aircraft weapons amongst Iraqi insurgents, most of the missiles are probably still in Iraq. Yet it is not inconceivable that some of these missiles have made their way into the international black market. In the hands of trained terrorists, these missiles, and particularly the more advanced SA-16s reportedly in Iraq’s arsenals, pose a grave threat to military aircraft and commercial airliners.

The Soviets sold thousands of MANPADS to Iraq in the 1980s despite its history of destabilizing military coups and Saddam Hussein’s demonstrated proclivity for international aggression and adventurism. The international community must guard against similar MANPADS build-ups by monitoring proposed sales to militaristic or unstable regimes and intervening to stop them if necessary.

 

[Donatello]

Nope, they do not have IR threat receivers in them.

WHAT DA CHEESE CAKE FACTORY? So how the hell does a pilot know he is being painted by a IR seeker? (assuming IR doesn't emit but only receives photons........)

 

[Mosamania]

You are, under the naive ideals that somehow any equipment that ends up with the FSA is exclusive to them. Or that any effort to weaken the Assad regieme has little effect on how ISIS grows. In addition you are ignoring the open input ISIS gets from its donors of whom many are in the middle east itself.

After all, it begs the question as to how the FSA with all this purported funding is struggling and the ISIS with supposedly no funding or support is going strong.



Please come up with a better post than that. The FN-6 is decades old but like any weapon has its days of effects.. but there is NOTHING in the Chinese MANPAD arsenal that can get the Raptor.

I am well aware that some weapons can end up at the wrong hands, I am however marking on the history of the conflict and clarifying it. FSA for a while had no funds and no equipment due to severe constrictions imposed on them, they were basically told to win using AKs and radios for communication and whatever they could capture.

For a while many FSA soldiers felt that they were abandoned and begun joining other areas that had better funding from certain countries ala pro-MB ones. Still, FSA is only getting drops compared to other factions and is still going strong. ISIS according to a defector was planning for their northern Iraq offensive since 2009, and they carried it out flawlessly, this gave them a huge propaganda boost and Baghdadi felt that he strong enough to separate from AQ and form his own organization. The oil fields they captured and are selling in the blackmarket gives them more funds than they could possibly know what to do with.

FSA still has to rely on donors for funds, and the quality of their equipment still severely restricted. So a fighter fighting for FSA would look at the disparity between the two and think it is better to join the winning side.

 

[Oldman1]

What you are saying here that there are Manpads under the control of ISIS and other groups can belongs to the Saddam Era.

There were articles way back in 2007 regarding all this.

Estimates of Iraq’s pre-war shoulder-fired missile holdings vary, most agree that Saddam’s regime accumulated several thousand Soviet-designed SA-7, SA-14 and SA-16 missiles, including more than 3,000 that it looted from Kuwaiti arsenals in 1990. Thousands of these missiles disappeared from Iraqi arsenals during the looting.

In November 2004, analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency estimated that 4000 of the missiles were still missing and, in turn, adjusted upward their estimate of black market manpads three-fold from 2000 to 6000. Given the demand for anti-aircraft weapons amongst Iraqi insurgents, most of the missiles are probably still in Iraq. Yet it is not inconceivable that some of these missiles have made their way into the international black market. In the hands of trained terrorists, these missiles, and particularly the more advanced SA-16s reportedly in Iraq’s arsenals, pose a grave threat to military aircraft and commercial airliners.

The Soviets sold thousands of MANPADS to Iraq in the 1980s despite its history of destabilizing military coups and Saddam Hussein’s demonstrated proclivity for international aggression and adventurism. The international community must guard against similar MANPADS build-ups by monitoring proposed sales to militaristic or unstable regimes and intervening to stop them if necessary.

Don't know if this is for me or someone else. Just stating that pilots can be captured before rescue as is shown in this situation right now.

 

[Mosamania]

@Mosamania I agree with your point Saudi Arabia isn't supporting ISIS. But the infection of terrorism and its ideology is the mutation of what was started by rich Middle East Arab countries as a way to increase their influence in Muslim world.

ISIS operates in your vicinity. Come to Pakistan and have a look at how the money and indoctrination of Saudi wahhabi sect & more generally of competing Arab ideologies has destroyed our society. The violent extremism is a big part of this influence.

Dont forget that this anti-shia 'crusade' is also part of this package.

Right now, as we speak, there are mullahs in Pakistan spewing hate against shias and preparing their students for 'jihad' and the source of financing is guess which countries - Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar.

Saudi Arabia is actively fighting this mentality at home how can you possibly believe it is being spread even? The religious establishment in Fahad's era was spreading this mentality, no denying that, but thatis no longer the case. The remains of that time require clean up, but first we need to finish cleaning up our own home. We have a saying here "The old lady went to clean the house and left her own home dirty".

 

[SQ8]

I am well aware that some weapons can end up at the wrong hands, I am however marking on the history of the conflict and clarifying it. FSA for a while had no funds and no equipment due to severe constrictions imposed on them, they were basically told to win using AKs and radios for communication and whatever they could capture.

For a while many FSA soldiers felt that they were abandoned and begun joining other areas that had better funding from certain countries ala pro-MB ones. Still, FSA is only getting drops compared to other factions and is still going strong. ISIS according to a defector was planning for their northern Iraq offensive since 2009, and they carried it out flawlessly, this gave them a huge propaganda boost and Baghdadi felt that he strong enough to separate from AQ and form his own organization. The oil fields they captured and are selling in the blackmarket gives them more funds than they could possibly know what to do with.

FSA still has to rely on donors for funds, and the quality of their equipment still severely restricted. So a fighter fighting for FSA would look at the disparity between the two and think it is better to join the winning side.

So hence you agree. That by stepping into the conflict the GCC nations(and citizen donors) may be inadvertently responsible for feeding ISIS into the monster is has become today

 

[Hindustani78]

Don't know if this is for me or someone else. Just stating that pilots can be captured before rescue as is shown in this situation right now.

I am here talking about the possibilities how plane can be shot down. Still large numbers of soviet made Manpads are there in Iraq in the hands of all the groups.

Jordanians are saying that plane was crashed .

 

[Mosamania]

So hence you agree. That by stepping into the conflict the GCC nations(and citizen donors) may be inadvertently responsible for feeding ISIS into the monster is has become today

By listening to the US administrations and imposing restrictions and prolonging the conflict. They should have supported FSA all the way back then. Everything was falling perfectly into place until the US refused and imposed restrictions on support. Entire brigades were defecting at that time and more were willing to defect.

The longer the conflict lasts the more extreme it gets. Also there is a huge wave of Anti-Secularists who use the fact that Saudi Arabia is supporting secular FSA against it to justify terrorist actions against it. Mainly MB and ISIS. I am sure there are individual donors who are sympathetic to their cause. But ISIS doesn't live on donations.

FSA is NOT ISIS, they are the main force fighting ISIS in Syria, even the Syrian regime is only engaged in one front against ISIS and it is in a stalemate. Both regime and ISIS are fighting FSA together, and FSA is where my support in this conflict is. They are the only ones remaining true to Syria, refusing foreigners and relying on Syrian arm alone. The only true Syrian army left in Syria. FSA is fighting foreign Ismaist terrorist in one hand in the form of ISIS, and is fighting Iraqi, Lebanese, Afghan, Yemeni, Turkish, Pakistani shias who are fighting for Assad on the other.