Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[angeldust]

What do people here believe?

Since Jinnah took it upon himself to be a spokesperson for all Indian Muslims, and proposed that Hindus and Muslims could not live together, and as such were two totally different people, the country got divided. Partition happened. About a milion people died violently. Yet it soon became clear that a large propostion of Muslims had put in their lot with India. Did that not defeat Jinnah right there? Was there therefore not just cause to revert the Partition then as an experiment gone horribly wrong?

But the seed of hatred was sown and had taken root. Coming back together would mean far greater reprisals and bloodshed. And the Indian Muslims had to carry Pakistan around their necks like a millstone for deades thereafter. So please NEVER even in jest claim that the creation of Pakistan did some good for Indian Muslims. It was a communal legacy that we as a country took decades to erase. So if there is any feeling of vindication today, it is on our side to see you fighting and killing each other. Not the other way around.

 

[ice_man]

What do people here believe?

Since Jinnah took it upon himself to be a spokesperson for all Indian Muslims, and proposed that Hindus and Muslims could not live together, and as such were two totally different people, the country got divided. Partition happened. About a milion people died violently. Yet it soon became clear that a large propostion of Muslims had put in their lot with India. Did that not defeat Jinnah right there? Was there therefore not just cause to revert the Partition then as an experiment gone horribly wrong?

But the seed of hatred was sown and had taken root. Coming back together would mean far greater reprisals and bloodshed. And the Indian Muslims had to carry Pakistan around their necks like a millstone for deades thereafter. So please NEVER even in jest claim that the creation of Pakistan did some good for Indian Muslims. It was a communal legacy that we as a country took decades to erase. So if there is any feeling of vindication today, it is on our side to see you fighting and killing each other. Not the other way around.

that is an utter lie that you tell yourself every night inorder to be able to sleep peacefully. The people who were fooled by the congress and loyaly supported MUALANA regretted everything from 15th August 1947 onwards. Hyderabad muslims & Kashmiris are an example.

Some saw the indian hindu orchestrated blood shed and just didn't have the courage to get up and go across the border. hence stayed. If the partition had happened peacefully i assure you alot more muslims would have got up and come.

However, in 1971 when Bangladesh was formed it clearly showed that when a community learns to breath the fresh AIR of FREEDOM it never goes back to being instituitonalised and HENCE the BANGLADESHIS not even for a second considered to honour MUALANA or rejoin india!

as for vindiction true the INDIAN MUSLIMS prays and hopes that Pakistan suffers hence the mistake of their FOREFATHERS doesn't seem so bad to them & doesn't hurt them like a thorn in their palms.

& SADLY but surely the muslim killings of gujrat,kashmir & bombay have made JINNAH's stand seem more and more correct! IF it was US who you claim were the trouble makers in 40s then clearly KASHMIR,GUJRAT & BOMBAY were YOUR OWN DOING!

 

[angeldust]

that is an utter lie that you tell yourself every night inorder to be able to sleep peacefully. The people who were fooled by the congress and loyaly supported MUALANA regretted everything from 15th August 1947 onwards. Hyderabad muslims & Kashmiris are an example.

Some saw the indian hindu orchestrated blood shed and just didn't have the courage to get up and go across the border. hence stayed. If the partition had happened peacefully i assure you alot more muslims would have got up and come.

However, in 1971 when Bangladesh was formed it clearly showed that when a community learns to breath the fresh AIR of FREEDOM it never goes back to being instituitonalised and HENCE the BANGLADESHIS not even for a second considered to honour MUALANA or rejoin india!

as for vindiction true the INDIAN MUSLIMS prays and hopes that Pakistan suffers hence the mistake of their FOREFATHERS doesn't seem so bad to them & doesn't hurt them like a thorn in their palms.

& SADLY but surely the muslim killings of gujrat,kashmir & bombay have made JINNAH's stand seem more and more correct! IF it was US who you claim were the trouble makers in 40s then clearly KASHMIR,GUJRAT & BOMBAY were YOUR OWN DOING!

My brother, you guys wanted a land for yourselves. You got it. A nation for Muslims.

We had to overcome a legacy of that hatred, with 850 million Hindus living alngside 180 million Mulsims on the same land, same country.

You had all Muslims living happily together in the land you wanted and got.

So today 64 years later, what is your excuse?

Why are you still fighting and killing each other in the thousands in the name of religion?

You speak of Kashmir, Gujarat, and Mumbai. Both Hindus and Muslims died there. Today we have learned our lessons.

Yet our deaths pale in number and extent compared to what has been happening on your land. What then is the lesson history will teach future generations who look back at the happenings of this violent period?

What is your excuse bhai?

We proved Azad right. All of us, Hindus, Muslims, and other Indians.

You proved Jinnah wrong. Just you Mulsims.

 

[Rusty]

What do people here believe?

Since Jinnah took it upon himself to be a spokesperson for all Indian Muslims, and proposed that Hindus and Muslims could not live together, and as such were two totally different people, the country got divided. Partition happened. About a milion people died violently. Yet it soon became clear that a large propostion of Muslims had put in their lot with India. Did that not defeat Jinnah right there? Was there therefore not just cause to revert the Partition then as an experiment gone horribly wrong?


But the seed of hatred was sown and had taken root. Coming back together would mean far greater reprisals and bloodshed. And the Indian Muslims had to carry Pakistan around their necks like a millstone for deades thereafter. So please NEVER even in jest claim that the creation of Pakistan did some good for Indian Muslims. It was a communal legacy that we as a country took decades to erase. So if there is any feeling of vindication today, it is on our side to see you fighting and killing each other. Not the other way around.

It always amuses me how petty and small minded Indians are.
You guys are wallowing in your own smugness because Pakistan is going through a bad time. That in itself is extremely petty. But what is hilarious is that India is no supa dupa pawa (don't listen to all the Indians who say India is).
India has a massive problem with violence, communalism, racism and pretty much every other "ism" out there.
You Think that Jinnah's vision has failed because Pakistan is having a few bad years?
Well then, by that same logic the Indian dream of a united country has failed too.

The real question I want to ask tho is, why do Indians consider Pakistan to be part of India in the first place?
The Republic of India never existed until 1947, so how can we separate from something that never existed?
Furthermore, why don't Indian get upset about Nepal and Srilanka?
Both those countries were also administered under the British Raj. Why don't Indians say that Both those countries belong to India?

 

[ziaulislam]

simple,
kalam was a part of part which contained legends and geniuses
while
Jinnah was a one man show..
he alone was more capable then all of congress party men put together

 

[Rusty]

My brother, you guys wanted a land for yourselves. You got it. A nation for Muslims.

We had to overcome a legacy of that hatred, with 850 million Hindus living alngside 180 million Mulsims on the same land, same country.

You had all Muslims living happily together in the land you wanted and got.

So today 64 years later, what is your excuse?

Why are you still fighting and killing each other in the thousands in the name of religion?

You speak of Kashmir, Gujarat, and Mumbai. Both Hindus and Muslims died there. Today we have learned our lessons.

Yet our deaths pale in number and extent compared to what has been happening on your land. What then is the lesson history will teach future generations who look back at the happenings of this violent period?

What is your excuse bhai?

We proved Azad right. All of us, Hindus, Muslims, and other Indians.

You proved Jinnah wrong. Just you Mulsims.

Our excuse is that we live on a planet called earth and not Lala land like most you Indians.

1. Have you really overcome this legacy? Can a Muslim easily rent any apartment in Mumbai?
Jinnah saw this eventuality and he didn't want Muslims to suffer the humiliation of not being able to rent an apartment in Karach or Lahore.

2. Excuse for what? With the exception of the area that border Afghanistan, Pakistan is only showing problems of developing countries (ie the same problems you have)

3. Killing each other in the thousands for religion?
This just proves that you are living in lalaland and not reality.
For the sake of argument I will assume you are back on earth, Pakistan is currently in the middle of a war. War means that bad things happens, unfortunately for Pakistan we got stuck in a war we had nothing to do with and we are paying the price. Once thiswar is over, things will return to normal.

4. Really? you learned your lesson? just a little while ago there were articles about Hindu extremists attacking churches and forcing converts to come back to Hinduism.

5. Again, see WoT.

6 and good one, Muslims in India have to curse at their Brothers in Pakistan just to stay alive. I am sure Azad is proud of this .

 

[ice_man]

My brother, you guys wanted a land for yourselves. You got it. A nation for Muslims.

We had to overcome a legacy of that hatred, with 850 million Hindus living alngside 180 million Mulsims on the same land, same country.

You had all Muslims living happily together in the land you wanted and got.

So today 64 years later, what is your excuse?

Why are you still fighting and killing each other in the thousands in the name of religion?

You speak of Kashmir, Gujarat, and Mumbai. Both Hindus and Muslims died there. Today we have learned our lessons.

Yet our deaths pale in number and extent compared to what has been happening on your land. What then is the lesson history will teach future generations who look back at the happenings of this violent period?

What is your excuse bhai?

We proved Azad right. All of us, Hindus, Muslims, and other Indians.

You proved Jinnah wrong. Just you Mulsims.

you fail to understand WE wanted a land for ourselves to DO WHATEVER WE WILLED! your stance was that MUSLIMS & Hindus could coexist without any issue or religious backed killings.


however, 50 years on from independence bombay, gujrat & kashmir killings continue. don't see what we did with our land our DEMAND was WE want a land for ourselves to practise OUR FREE WILL.

HINDUS DIVIDED the muslims for their own security! Jinnah saw through the plan Mualana failed to do so. Rest is history!

 

[matrix_neo]

Dude: not going into the creation of Pakistan, of which I am a big supporter, Jinnah would be spinning at 10000 RPM in his grave if he were to see Pakistan today and how the Muslims are killing Muslims at a much much bigger rate than Hindus are killing Muslims in India.

So let's go easy. There is no need to criticize one to praise other.

10000 RPM!!! really???

 

[Rusty]

10000 RPM!!! really???

And I am sure Ghandi would be perfectly happy with India as it is right now.
Ghandi used to look down on the black South Africans, he thought he was better then them.
But now India has more poor then the whole continent combined
Just imagine how proud he would be right now

As For Jinnah, he would be proud that he build such a strong country that despite a war and complete failure in leadership, His nation is still able to maintain a positive growth rate. His Nation is a nuclear power. And his nation has tremendous potential still.

 

[AbhijitSingh]

My brother, you guys wanted a land for yourselves. You got it. A nation for Muslims.

We had to overcome a legacy of that hatred, with 850 million Hindus living alngside 180 million Mulsims on the same land, same country.

You had all Muslims living happily together in the land you wanted and got.

So today 64 years later, what is your excuse?

Why are you still fighting and killing each other in the thousands in the name of religion?

You speak of Kashmir, Gujarat, and Mumbai. Both Hindus and Muslims died there. Today we have learned our lessons.

Yet our deaths pale in number and extent compared to what has been happening on your land. What then is the lesson history will teach future generations who look back at the happenings of this violent period?

What is your excuse bhai?

We proved Azad right. All of us, Hindus, Muslims, and other Indians.

You proved Jinnah wrong. Just you Mulsims.

The most precise and accurate debunk of the 2 nation theory I have seen till date ... :salute:

 

[EjazR]

however, 50 years on from independence bombay, gujrat & kashmir killings continue. don't see what we did with our land our DEMAND was WE want a land for ourselves to practise OUR FREE WILL.

HINDUS DIVIDED the muslims for their own security! Jinnah saw through the plan Mualana failed to do so. Rest is history!

Ah, so now in jumping up and down in your contradictory stances you have implicated Jinnah for following what the "Hindus" wanted. So Jinnah HELPED the "Hindus" divide the Muslims.

Thanks for pointing out the facts that Jinnah followed what Hindus wanted and Maulana Azad was opposed to it

And yes it doesn't matter what you did with your land. It doesn't matter that more Muslims have been slaugtered in Pakistan/Bangladesh than India in the last 60+ years.
*roll eyes*

 

[ice_man]

Ah, so now in jumping up and down in your contradictory stances you have implicated Jinnah for following what the "Hindus" wanted. So Jinnah HELPED the "Hindus" divide the Muslims.

Thanks for pointing out the facts that Jinnah followed what Hindus wanted and Maulana Azad was opposed to it

And yes it doesn't matter what you did with your land. It doesn't matter that more Muslims have been slaugtered in Pakistan/Bangladesh than India in the last 60+ years.
*roll eyes*

you clearly don't read do you? MUSLIMS wished to PARTITION! MUALANA played into the hands of congress people like NEHRU & PATEL! both of whom didnot want muslims to seperate.

if you go a few posts back your friends clearly admitted that NEHRU & PATEL last minute asked for division of punjab & Bengal & started the massacre. this lead to alot of MUSLIMS staying back (no one wants their wives,daughters raped & killed).

 

[imran_ind]

Our excuse is that we live on a planet called earth and not Lala land like most you Indians. 1. Have you really overcome this legacy? Can a Muslim easily rent any apartment in Mumbai? .

Have you ever been to India in your life time bombay for specifc or are u still in your wet dreams fantasizing ....

Mumbai is not a village its twice bigger and more developed then karachi , and for you INFO my dad's family lives in bombay too and muslims makes 19% of the total bombay population comprising of 12 million .

Jinnah saw this eventuality and he didn't want Muslims to suffer the humiliation of not being able to rent an apartment in Karach or Lahore.

2. Excuse for what? With the exception of the area that border Afghanistan, Pakistan is only showing problems of developing countries (ie the same problems you have)

3. Killing each other in the thousands for religion?
This just proves that you are living in lalaland and not reality.
For the sake of argument I will assume you are back on earth, Pakistan is currently in the middle of a war. War means that bad things happens, unfortunately for Pakistan we got stuck in a war we had nothing to do with and we are paying the price. Once thiswar is over, things will return to normal.

4. Really? you learned your lesson? just a little while ago there were articles about Hindu extremists attacking churches and forcing converts to come back to Hinduism.

5. Again, see WoT.

6 and good one, Muslims in India have to curse at their Brothers in Pakistan just to stay alive. I am sure Azad is proud of this .[/QUOTE]

Have you ever been to India in your life time bombay for specifc or are u still in your wet dreams fantasizing ....

Mumbai is not a village its twice bigger and more developed then karachi , and for you INFO my dad's family lives in bombay too and muslims makes 19% of the total bombay population comprising of 12 million .

Jinnah saw this eventuality and he didn't want Muslims to suffer the humiliation of not being able to rent an apartment in Karach or Lahore.

2. Excuse for what? With the exception of the area that border Afghanistan, Pakistan is only showing problems of developing countries (ie the same problems you have)

3. Killing each other in the thousands for religion?
This just proves that you are living in lalaland and not reality.
For the sake of argument I will assume you are back on earth, Pakistan is currently in the middle of a war. War means that bad things happens, unfortunately for Pakistan we got stuck in a war we had nothing to do with and we are paying the price. Once thiswar is over, things will return to normal.

4. Really? you learned your lesson? just a little while ago there were articles about Hindu extremists attacking churches and forcing converts to come back to Hinduism.

5. Again, see WoT.

6 and good one, Muslims in India have to curse at their Brothers in Pakistan just to stay alive. I am sure Azad is proud of this .

[/QUOTE]


Have you ever been to India in your life time bombay for specifc or are u still in your wet dreams fantasizing ....

Mumbai is not a village its twice bigger and more developed then karachi , and for you INFO my dad's family lives in bombay too and muslims makes 19% of the total bombay population comprising of 12 million .



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...76-jinnah-vs-kalam-azad-44.html#ixzz1xfi0mggW

 

[Contrarian]

My brother, you guys wanted a land for yourselves. You got it. A nation for Muslims.

We had to overcome a legacy of that hatred, with 850 million Hindus living alngside 180 million Mulsims on the same land, same country.

You had all Muslims living happily together in the land you wanted and got.

So today 64 years later, what is your excuse?

Why are you still fighting and killing each other in the thousands in the name of religion?

You speak of Kashmir, Gujarat, and Mumbai. Both Hindus and Muslims died there. Today we have learned our lessons.

Yet our deaths pale in number and extent compared to what has been happening on your land. What then is the lesson history will teach future generations who look back at the happenings of this violent period?

What is your excuse bhai?

We proved Azad right. All of us, Hindus, Muslims, and other Indians.

You proved Jinnah wrong. Just you Mulsims.

What a post angel dust! Amazing..!

The only reply i see Pakistanis coming up with are the gujarat riots..that happened a decade back!!
And the reason why Pakistan is successful is because Pakistan exists and has potential and nuclear weapons!! LOL!

 

[ice_man]

^^^ what is this guy trying to say??/ i am totally lost! but anyways good for him