Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[lem34]

Just ban them.

PDF has become choked with new members who are here just to start flame wars. I don't even post anymore. Any thread i open up, is India vs Pakistan BS. Seriously, ban them!!!

I ask Oscar by pm if I could give valid statistics from Indian govt and UN agencies which stand as irrefutable evidence that the Quaid was right and Mr Azad was wrong. But they show India in a bad light and I know it will upset Indians. Then thread will finish.

 

[Subramanian]

He taught you a lesson like his predecessors that you guys are just all talk, stopped you in your tracks and gave you a reality check, he was no bandit anyone that beats you guys is a barbarian or a bandit.

Except that his land now is a minefield and the one he tried to s rew is not,u t trying to defend Abadali?

My god.

One must remember that 64 years since Pakistan & India's independence, Pakistan has been doing better than India in 45+ years in all socioeconomic, development indicators. Even today, despite being in the forefront on the WOT, Pakistan is doing better than India in many socioeconomic indicators. Where Pakistan is today is not because of what Jinnah envisaged for Pakistan, but because Pakistan did completely opposite of that.

As usual Bilal,

u have hardly a clue about India which you display more often than not, it is more difficult to run a elelpahnt than a Horse.

Aukaat samajhle apne.

Give the same advice to your fellow indians who are obsessed about Pakistan.

We Pakistanis have nothing to do with india or indians or indian "muslims"

So just move on and leave us alone.

oye hero Omar

agar yeh baat samajh aa gayi toh, tu aisa nahi kehta.

We have moved on Vinod - we are on PDF debating. The infatuation and fascination is with respect the other way round. This thread is the ultimate example of the "Indian obsession".
Reading the posts earlier on the span of Indian logic is truly widespread - even finding it necessary to bring in 1971.
We have certainly moved on and trust me judging be some Indian posts - its obvious the in depth obsession they have is stronger than ever with our nation.

who has a problem with Kashmir?

Who has a thing about China/USA?

Btw,till Afghanistan ll always be our land nd we ll take it,

see ya later.

 

[MilSpec]

I beg to differ from most of Indian members here on two nation theory... Concept of partition was a success,if exodus would have been peaceful it would have been wonderfull.... if border issues were solved outright in 1947, amicable relations would have helped the prosperity of all the parties.

 

[Bang Galore]

--

The Man Who Forged An Interview: Shorish Kashmiri's Maulana Azad Hoax



By Yasser Latif Hamdani

Some people believe that if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth. Making the rounds on the internet these days is a “suddenly discovered” interview of Maulana Azad which he allegedly gave to Agha Shorish Kashmiri of Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam in April 1946.

No evidence to back this claim. Just the author's opinion that the interview is a fake.The original interview was found & translated by Arif Mohammed Khan, a man of unimpeachable integrity & a former member of the Indian parliament. A man who commands respect simply because he willingly put up his political career on the line (& paid a very heavy price) for his convictions by taking a anti-fundamentalist muslim line on the Shah Bano case.

In any case, the only ones arguing that this is a fake are those who have never read Azad's "India wins freedom". Pretty much all these prophesies are found there. Nothing fake about that. Azad died in 1958 & the book was written earlier. Matches roughly the timeline of this interview . The interview will be considered genuine unless evidence is produced to the contrary & there isn't any. As for the one battle that is wrongly mentioned, it might well be the mistake of the interviewer who was after all writing it down to be published.

 

[Karachiite]

far from it..
While Azad was aware of issues that would plague a separate Muslim nation , he put too much faith in communal harmony and the elixir of being a majority.
He may have been an Indian Patriot.. but he was far from being a beneficiary to Islam as a whole.

But if you actually look at his points for opposing the partition then it makes sense. He knew that once the subcontinent is divided then Muslims would be divided as well and look at it now, Muslims in South Asia are divided into 3 nationalities and have been turned against each other. Also I agree on why he tried to stop Indian Muslims from moving to Pakistan in 1947.

I'm not opposing Quaid e Azam because I know his concerns were valid and partition for him was the last option.

 

[Vinod2070]

If it is all typical and expected.. and by the last line..
Then you have no right to discuss Pakistan as well.
No Indian may speak on any pakistani as well then.

There is a difference.

I don't care whether you call yourself Islamic or XYZ and why you do that. Your country, your choice.

I don't care for the % of Pushtuns in some university of Lahore or Karachi.

I don't care if Sindhis are proportionately represented in the Pakistani armed forces.

They are your internal matters and don't concern me.

I want to have peaceful relations between the two countries but also keep an arm's length distance as any two independent and sovereign countries should.

We don't share common values now, may be just some common interests and that is what I am interested in.

 

[Vinod2070]

Then why bring us up in these topics in the first place?
It was about two personalities..
Then the discussion went to India.. until an Indian dragged in Pakistan.
We are not comparable..
can never be comparable.. two different phenomena at work.
As to why as Pakistanis we may voice our concerns.. we have every right to has your countrymen do.
When every Veer,Dinesh and hari singh can come out here and shovel **** at my country day in and day out..hurling abuses at us, ridiculing us.. laughing at our deaths..and apart from a sane few of you..find every other unrelated issue to let us down. Then we deserve enough right to discuss the other side of the fence.. and ask all sorts of questions as we wish.

Any topic is OK to discuss. Even this was started by a Pakistani.

Let's not get self righteous about "celebrating death". Many of us remember the decades long campaign of terror coming from your side.

And the daily celebration of our soldiers getting "halaq" while some of the terrorists in Kashmir gained "shahadat".

You can discuss India. I don't think you (not as an individual but as a Pakistani) have the right to represent any Indians to other Indians irrespective of religion or community.

 

[LaBong]

What is the source of these telegrams? It seems to be be hoax.

 

[LaBong]

Okay I found the sources, no offence that was rather rude. Azad did the right thing by not replying.

 

[Infinity]

Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad is not a fair "versus" comparison at all .... both men were great in their own way , had some common ideologies/goals and some conflicting ideologies/goals ... both stood for peaceful fight to drive out British , but difference being Jinnah wanted separate state for Muslims and Azad wanted people of all religion to stay together as one !

And I think Azad was right and India has proved he was right.....................

 

[vsdoc]

And I think Azad was right and India has proved he was right.....................

And so has Pakistan.

And Bangladesh.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Foresight on the other hand changes the course of nations.

In the end its the vindication that counts. And history will record it as such.

Because as we have seen across time, like in any conflict, history is written by the victors.

 

[cloud_9]

Just ban them.

PDF has become choked with new members who are here just to start flame wars. I don't even post anymore. Any thread i open up, is India vs Pakistan BS. Seriously, ban them!!!

This mud slinging was started by a Senior Member.Well Jinnah has a special place in the hearts of Pakistani's so is the case with Maulana Azad among Indians.

 

[vsdoc]

This mud slinging was started by a Senior Member.Well Jinnah has a special place in the hearts of Pakistani's so is the case with Maulana Azad among Indians.

Of course Jinnah will have a special place in the hearts of Pakistanis man.

What he actually did in the name of secularism was consolidate formally the territorial inroads made by Islam into the land of the Hindus, so that there was something to show for a millenium of effort.

Before it was irrevocably lost.

Something to show the rest of the so called Muslim world, to prove that sub-continental Islam had not failed completely in their march towards Islamization of what they have always seen as the final frontier.

The final unconquered frontier that did not bend but absorbed and swallowed instead.

That was the dominant emotion behind the creation of Pakistan.

Secularism was as much a sham then as it is today.

No one buys it today. No one bought it then.

 

[Tamizhan]

Of course Jinnah will have a special place in the hearts of Pakistanis man.

What he actually did in the name of secularism was consolidate formally the territorial inroads made by Islam into the land of the Hindus, so that there was something to show for a millenium of effort.

Before it was irrevocably lost.

Something to show the rest of the so called Muslim world, to prove that sub-continental Islam had not failed completely in their march towards Islamization of what they have always seen as the final frontier.

The final unconquered frontier that did not bend but absorbed and swallowed instead.

That was the dominant emotion behind the creation of Pakistan.

Secularism was as much a sham then as it is today.

No one buys it today. No one bought it then.

The best post of the thread.

 

[Porus]

Of course Jinnah will have a special place in the hearts of Pakistanis man.

What he actually did in the name of secularism was consolidate formally the territorial inroads made by Islam into the land of the Hindus, so that there was something to show for a millenium of effort.

Before it was irrevocably lost.

Something to show the rest of the so called Muslim world, to prove that sub-continental Islam had not failed completely in their march towards Islamization of what they have always seen as the final frontier.

The final unconquered frontier that did not bend but absorbed and swallowed instead.

That was the dominant emotion behind the creation of Pakistan.

Secularism was as much a sham then as it is today.

No one buys it today. No one bought it then.

Are you trying to say something? You terribly lack that good command of English that is needed to demonstrate the poetic prowess. Keep it simple and say again whatever you are trying to say.