Jinnah had a dream, and we failed him

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan was created for the sub-continent's Muslims, no? As a safe haven against the majority Hindus? And yet, where is that safety?

Ofcourse RAW terrorists have attacked Pakistan in form of TTP & BLA terrorists, Pak Army is fighting these terrorists, already violence is pretty much down, only some incident happen in FATA & Balochistan, slowly peace is coming.

Pakistan fighting for Jinnah's dream? Pray how? Sectarian violence, constitutionally allowed atrocities against minorities, lawlessness etc! Is that what was Jinnah's dream?

Yes fighting, still fighting. I said fighting for Jinnah's dream, it doesn't mean had acheived it, it could take even years to acheive the goal. Seriously you need to raise up your reading & understanding skills.

 

[Night_Raven]

Ofcourse RAW terrorists have attacked Pakistan in form of TTP & BLA terrorists, Pak Army is fighting these terrorists, already violence is pretty much down, only some incident happen in FATA & Balochistan, slowly peace is coming.

Yes , the usual charge ... outside powers ... global conspiracy ... RAW , MI6 , CIA , Mossad out to destroy the citadel of Islam ... no fault of Pakistan at all EVER

 

[humanfirst]

Ofcourse RAW terrorists have attacked Pakistan in form of TTP & BLA terrorists,

Ttp and bla are very much pakistani.

 

[gubbi]

Ofcourse RAW terrorists have attacked Pakistan in form of TTP & BLA terrorists, Pak Army is fighting these terrorists, already violence is pretty much down, only some incident happen in FATA & Balochistan, slowly peace is coming.

As usual. Blame one's own incompetence on others! Cannot take care of your own people and yet lament about apparent 'lack' of secularism in others'.

Yes fighting, still fighting. I said fighting for Jinnah's dream, it doesn't mean had acheived it, it could take even years to acheive the goal. Seriously you need to raise up your reading & understanding skills.

Jinnah's dream died the day he gave that speech for a secular Pakistan based on Islamic principles when its a fact that Pakistan was created solely for the sub-continent's Muslims against the majority Hindus! What was the reason for that wanting a 'secular Pakistan' when there was a secular country right next door? Talk about double standards.
And yet you claim that Pakistan is heading towards Jinnah's vision (whatever that is!). How? By constitutionally discriminating against minorities? ROFL.

 

[Edevelop]

Pakistan became 'Islamic republic' in 1956. So of-course our country is not what Jinnah had first in mind.
Moreover, Jinnah himself was not really islamic personally so whose dream are we following? He drank and Ham sandwich was his favourite.

I think if Pakistan becomes a secular country, then there would no b.s going on in the country currently. Whether its shi'te vs sunni, ahmedaee rights, Taliban, jamaat e islami, muslims women vs muslim men issues, quran and hadith misinterpretations, etc....

Although i am a Musim who does NOT drink, party, eat pork, etc. However, i have a feeling we should legalize everything that some people riot against. I think the Netherlands is a great example. Everything is free to do but yet we see people who have learned overtime to make the right choices. Great knowledge comes with great experience!

 

[gubbi]

I think jinnah wanted pakistan to be a secular democracy based on islamic principles.

That would negate the whole two nation theory apparently based on religion, no?

But the truth is many aspects of secular democracy contradicts with political aspect of islam i.e sharia,which in itself is very vague whose several aspects are disputed by various schools of thoughts.

No way religion and secularism go hand in hand in politics.

 

[nalandapride]

Urdu Media , Oh man! Same stunts you use in india against each other,
Wat about it? Is it also a mistake of our media?

We Do Debate on that several times, So I personally don't consider any harm from your argument If you use it..

Well ! It doesn't means that everything we'd learned in School have become our personal view..

I could not understand even a single explanation from you, can you elaborate.

 

[American Pakistani]

Well, Partition is a reality no going back. But we Indian don't believe in 2 Nation Theory and will never accept it.

Accept it or not, who cares. lollololololol

Do you really know what Secularism mean. Same way, Can I say Pakistan is Islamic Republic??? LOL Operation Cleanup, Target killing, Bangladesh massacre, Kurram blockage, Lashkar e Jhangvi, etc. etc.

Don't be a dumb, i already said Pakistanis still fighting for Jinnah's Pakistan. As Jinnah said "Hum nay Pakistan Hasil karliya hai lekin abhi humein iskay liye aur Qurbaniyan dena hongeen".

And we are definitely seculars and we don't need certificate from a non-Secular country. first thing we Indians are taught in School is

"Hindu Muslim Sikh Isai,
Aapas mein sab Bhai Bhai."

Anyway can you enlighten what is this Tamil massacre mentioned in your Urdu media.

I already show you your secular face, if there was someone from a ghairat mand respected Country he would have get lost of shyness (chullu bhar paani mein doob mara hota) but you post a shair, it is not amazing cuz we know what country you belong to.

And it shows how intolerant india is that even they try hard to start from teaching kids these kindda shairs but still they grow up as intoerents & happily massacre Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Dallits etc etc. Shame.

Yes , the usual charge ... outside powers ... global conspiracy ... RAW , MI6 , CIA , Mossad out to destroy the citadel of Islam ... no fault of Pakistan at all EVER

I'm talking about facts not cheap class indian conspiracy theories against Kashmiris fighting for indepandance, Khalistanis fighting for indepandance, Assamese, Tamils, Nagalanders, Arunachal Pradeshis etc etc fighting for indepandance.

 

[nalandapride]

Accept it or not, who cares. lollololololol
Don't be a dumb, i already said Pakistanis still fighting for Jinnah's Pakistan. As Jinnah said "Hum nay Pakistan Hasil karliya hai lekin abhi humein iskay liye aur Qurbaniyan dena hongeen".
I already show you your secular face, if there was someone from a ghairat mand respected Country he would have get lost of shyness (chullu bhar paani mein doob mara hota) but you post a shair, it is not amazing cuz we know what country you belong to.
And it shows how intolerant india is that even they try hard to start from teaching kids these kindda shairs but still they grow up as intoerents & happily massacre Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Dallits etc etc. Shame.

Well, I can't expect a illiterate will explain me what is secularism. You guys think yourself Islamic Republic even though thousands of Shias killed in last 2 decades, Stranded Biharis, unstable Karachi, Difa-e-Pakistan openly embracing anti-Shia terror groups and trying to give lessons on secularism to India.

 

[humanfirst]

Imo every indian should be thankful to jinnah for creation of pakistan.I strongly support two nation theory-not because hindus and muslims cannot live together,which evidently they can-if both believe in separation of religion from state matters and leave religion to their homes.But how the hell could we live with the people who are vehemently against secularism and democracy,all of which they consider as fundamentally OPPOSITE to their religion?Thankfully for such people jinnah made- pakistan,where they can shed all man made philosophies and establish sharia..

 

[American Pakistani]

Yes , the usual charge ... outside powers ... global conspiracy ... RAW , MI6 , CIA , Mossad out to destroy the citadel of Islam ... no fault of Pakistan at all EVER

As usual. Blame one's own incompetence on others! Cannot take care of your own people and yet lament about apparent 'lack' of secularism in others'.

I'm talking about facts not cheap class indian conspiracy theories against Kashmiris fighting for indepandance, Khalistanis fighting for indepandance, Assamese, Tamils, Nagalanders, Arunachal Pradeshis etc etc fighting for indepandance.

 

[Icarus]

Jinnah was a pioneer, he had a vision. Yes, we could not be a number of things he would have liked us to be but we did become a number of things that he would be equally proud off. As for that what we could not achieve, it was in part our failing and the rest can be attributed to global interests and geo-politics. For all that we could not achieve, there is always tomorrow. As far as the question of protection for minorities goes, I think we can be in a better state though our present state to begin with is not as bad as it's made out to be. If you reckon that the Taliban beheading their Sikh hostages(2009) is Pakistan's failing as a state(as it was made out to be) then, sorry as I am about issue, I would very humbly disagree with your assessment. These guys are terrorists, they in no way represent the Pakistani state or it's public. The average Pakistani does not care what your faith is and be very certain that minorities are not required to wear their faith on their sleeve, speaking for myself, 3 of my school teachers were Christians, I have a childhood friend who is a devout hindu and one of my closest friends is an outspoken atheist. It may surprise you to know that neither I nor anyone else has brought any harm to them.
The Markaz-e-Dawoodia(Centre for Davidians), a Jewish Community Centre is based in Blue Area Islamabad, the centre of all trade activities in Islamabad, it has a huge church right across the road from it and the particular road is a popular avenue for protest rallies however, not ONCE has any of the two been breached by any protester, damage is an all together different game.
So we did not fail Jinnah, we just haven't fulfilled his dream YET.

 

[gubbi]

I'm talking about facts not cheap class indian conspiracy theories

Baseless allegations. Show us the evidence and let others condemn us. We will then start saying its all perpetuated by 'foreign powers' working against Hinduism and India! Get the drift?

Kashmiris fighting for indepandance, Khalistanis fighting for indepandance, Assamese, Tamils, Nagalanders, Arunachal Pradeshis etc etc fighting for indepandance.

For real?

 

[American Pakistani]

Jinnah's dream died the day he gave that speech for a secular Pakistan based on Islamic principles when its a fact that Pakistan was created solely for the sub-continent's Muslims against the majority Hindus! What was the reason for that wanting a 'secular Pakistan' when there was a secular country right next door? Talk about double standards.
And yet you claim that Pakistan is heading towards Jinnah's vision (whatever that is!). How? By constitutionally discriminating against minorities? ROFL.

If i claim 'm a billionaire will you accept it? No until it is proved.

Same way Muslim Massacre, Sikh Massacre, Christian Massacre proved that you indians lie about so called secularism. These massacres had made you naked all over so stop lying & put your house in order before pointing fingers at other country. india was not secular & that was reason of creating Pakistan, which was primarily for Muslims but have equal rights for non Muslim Pakistanis, unfortunately mullas had hijacked the real Pakistan yes same mullas who were against creation of Pakistan & voted for india.

Well, I can't expect a illiterate will explain me what is secularism. You guys think yourself Islamic Republic even though thousands of Shias killed in last 2 decades, Stranded Biharis, unstable Karachi, Difa-e-Pakistan openly embracing anti-Shia terror groups and trying to give lessons on secularism to India.

Shut up, you are on reputed forum, learn some manners instead of PERSONNAL ATTACKS.

 

[humanfirst]

That would negate the whole two nation theory apparently based on religion, no?

Two nation theory was not just based on religion-more precisely it was based on concern of equality,rights and well being of muslim in a hindu majority state (even if its secular by constitution).