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Jihad unlimited: Does Kashmir need a military response or a political one?

You r trying to reason with people who will lie to your face. They think a lie if repeated a thousand times over becomes the truth.
Ignore them, their own ignorance will destroy them :lol::lol:

I believe that it is a duty to put the facts before them. After that, if they choose to ignore it and continue repeating false figures, that is between them and their conscience. Yes, sometimes it becomes very frustrating. But if even one person changes his or her views, all the effort will have been worthwhile.
 
I think we need to go back a bit further in History- When this Takfiri ideology was actually put in place there- and It was before the direct action day of Jinnah way back when Sheikh Abdullah returned from AMU with not so pleasant parting memories- and started taking control of politics there- 1989, 2010 or 2016 all are continuation of the same politics- toned at will by various players to suit their will and plans in Kashmir- It just seems to be taking Global color recently because of Internet and smart phones

There was no takfiri ideology in Kashmir prior to 2007(save for one odd radicalised nut, the frequency of such idiots was less than say Hyderabad, which could have been considered having some radicalised people). What you are referring to is the communal disharmony which was the result of the state policy of the British and had nothing to do with MA Jinnah, he himself opposed it but used it only seeing the attitude of JL Nehru and MK Gandhi in order to gain power, and the present situation can be attributed to this continuation of divisive politics in the subcontinent.

The takfiri ideology is the hallmark of the Wahabi sect, wherein they term any and everyone (it holds for Muslims) who oppose them as kafir . The problem of Kashmir today is less to do with 'azadi' and more to do with the undercurrents in the society after a decade of unbridled Saudi money wielding its influence on the poor masses there. The situation has been handled so shoddily in the political sense that India has been found wanting in strengthening the response at grassroots to reverse the perception of the Kashmiris in the valley. It is this aspect that needs correction to achieve long term gains.
 
Of course Kashmir needs a political solution but it doesn't mean we turn a blind eye to those who picked up arms against the state...

I don't think anybody is saying that the state should abdicate its duty to maintain itself, and to protect people from the law of the wild. What is being said is that our own citizens deserve compassion and kindness, to use the Hon'ble CJI's phrase, even when they are acting less than mature and sensible, and even when they are transgressors of the law of the land.
 
Why Burhan Wani got more attention than other terrorists killed along with him? Because he was less of a terrorist compared to his companions or simply because he was more active on social media.
 
I think we need to go back a bit further in History- When this Takfiri ideology was actually put in place there- and It was before the direct action day of Jinnah way back when Sheikh Abdullah returned from AMU with not so pleasant parting memories- and started taking control of politics there- 1989, 2010 or 2016 all are continuation of the same politics- toned at will by various players to suit their will and plans in Kashmir- It just seems to be taking Global color recently because of Internet and smart phones-

I am not too sure about that. My view, from what I have read so far, and corroborated by the views of a former Chief Secretary of J&K (I think they are called Principal Secretary these days), a Sikh gentleman whose thoughts and opinions I value on par with those of Niaz Sahib, or of Oscar, is that there was a definite pattern of development, in parallel with the INC effort to create movements in the princely states, an effort that was aborted in most places elsewhere. The most successful, as far as I know, was that in Kashmir, where the Muslim Conference (later re-named, in a significant act of secular and political ecumenism, the National Conference) took the lead.But we can discuss this further, if you wish. I have to deliver an essay to @salarsikander on the development of J&K, and that should take me till early tomorrow; after that?


I am unable recall the exact details but but recently I came to know about new companies being raised for CRPF or some reserved force consisting of only Tribals of Chattisgarh and Kashmiris-

Yes, I read that, and felt VERY hopeful, it is a good first step, but the training will determine if they are to become colourless paramilitaries or genuine bulwarks for the local police against forces bent on destroying order and then destroying law.

The CRPF are reportedly to be trained in counter-insurgency. Typical, stupid American-police style reaction, making their bloody SWAT teams when their basic policing is so bad and so racist. Here, too, SWAT teams will be completely useless, and an infringement into the territory of the RR and the Special Forces, who should be left alone to do what they do very well. If an RR parallel is sought in the north-east, let the three eminent forces of yester-year receive healing attention: the Eastern Frontier Rifles, as a reserve force, operating out of western West Bengal, and with jurisdiction (subject to law and order being on the States' List of subjects) over Bengal, Bihar, Odisha, Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh; the Assam Rifles, responsible for Arunachal and Assam; the Manipur Rifles, responsible for the lower states among the seven sisters, except Nagaland. Both the Assam Rifles and the Manipur Rifles need to be sensitised first.

The CRPF needs to be positioned between these and the local police, not including the local armed police. They need to be specially trained in what the Green Berets derisively (and wrongly) called winning the hearts and minds of people; almost every successful counter-insurgency leader in India has warned earnestly and long about the need to set right conditions that lead to insurgency in the first place, and they have never been heeded by New Delhi.

A new CRPF needs to be very different from the old. They need to be armed, sufficient to hold off company strength attacks by insurgents in Chhatisgarh, Jharkhand and Odisha, but they need training, most of all. Both hard training and soft training.

Hard training would include crowd control, management of religious institutions (like the Gorakhpur Math, or Deoband) and their followers in armed mobs or in violent mood, management of NGOs, who inspire violence, management of disturbed localities, where injecting the RR and the Army with AFSPA is far too extreme a step, and simple, infantry tactics to defend against massed Maoist attacks.

Training in law, especially constitutional law, educating them about the limits of authority and about the inalienable rights of citizens; training in psychology, including and especially the psychology of adolescents; training in immersive re-education, to de-toxify brainwashed kids (and adults); training in the literature relating to each particular insurgency, for instance, into the literature relating to historical developments, such as the British treatment of the State of Bastar, in the years before independence, the post-independence history of Bastar, the views of the tribals of the former Bastar state (which is a significant part of Chhatisgarh), into administrative history for the area, legislation and special enactments, especially as relating to forest rights, when dealing with the Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh regions.

This means that we are looking at a new level of recruitment, educated young people, not farmers' sons joining because it is tradition, or due to poverty. We are looking at new specialisations, appropriate to the occasion.

Why Burhan Wani got more attention than other terrorists killed along with him? Because he was less of a terrorist compared to his companions or simply because he was more active on social media.

Social media.

You should know that there is an entire and flourishing industry that is invested in the continuation of opposition to India and in violence. They are very powerful and influential.
 
Tavleen Singh is married to a pakitani politician.
You cannot expect sane and pro india suggestions from her article.
 
More than political and military solution, kashmir needs development solutions.
Put more funds in educating the Kashmiris, give opportunities to build industries and create jobs, employ the empty minds and give them a reason to think constructively, once the youth is employed in constructive activity they would have no time to think negative and get into this kind of stone throwing activities or get brainwashed.

Unfortunately Kashmir has to grow from the Horticulture and Tourism industry to more modern world industrialization.
This could include conversion of there old age horticulture to new generation high tech systems. Other way around is bringing in IT industry in to Kashmir valley, it gels well with the nature and environment and would give a lot of opportunity to local youth to join mainstream.
 
More than political and military solution, kashmir needs development solutions.
Put more funds in educating the Kashmiris, give opportunities to build industries and create jobs, employ the empty minds and give them a reason to think constructively, once the youth is employed in constructive activity they would have no time to think negative and get into this kind of stone throwing activities or get brainwashed.

Unfortunately Kashmir has to grow from the Horticulture and Tourism industry to more modern world industrialization.
This could include conversion of there old age horticulture to new generation high tech systems. Other way around is bringing in IT industry in to Kashmir valley, it gels well with the nature and environment and would give a lot of opportunity to local youth to join mainstream.



Before that we need to block funding from the external sources to the militant... if we are able to do that, then only development is possible... otherwise these infiltrators backed by external sources will not let kashmir grow up economically..
 
Need to hire more Kashmiri writers/columnists to show the reality of azadi to Kashmiris. Firstly, there is absolutely no way India can or will give them azadi. Kashmir is way too important for India's national security. The demand for azadi is already a lost cause. Secondly, Kashmir has no future as an independent nation or a part of Pakistan. Their best bet for a better future is with India. They need to be made aware of that, not right now but when things cool down.
 
I am not too sure about that. My view, from what I have read so far, and corroborated by the views of a former Chief Secretary of J&K (I think they are called Principal Secretary these days), a Sikh gentleman whose thoughts and opinions I value on par with those of Niaz Sahib, or of Oscar, is that there was a definite pattern of development, in parallel with the INC effort to create movements in the princely states, an effort that was aborted in most places elsewhere. The most successful, as far as I know, was that in Kashmir, where the Muslim Conference (later re-named, in a significant act of secular and political ecumenism, the National Conference) took the lead.But we can discuss this further, if you wish. I have to deliver an essay to @salarsikander on the development of J&K, and that should take me till early tomorrow; after that?




Yes, I read that, and felt VERY hopeful, it is a good first step, but the training will determine if they are to become colourless paramilitaries or genuine bulwarks for the local police against forces bent on destroying order and then destroying law.

The CRPF are reportedly to be trained in counter-insurgency. Typical, stupid American-police style reaction, making their bloody SWAT teams when their basic policing is so bad and so racist. Here, too, SWAT teams will be completely useless, and an infringement into the territory of the RR and the Special Forces, who should be left alone to do what they do very well. If an RR parallel is sought in the north-east, let the three eminent forces of yester-year receive healing attention: the Eastern Frontier Rifles, as a reserve force, operating out of western West Bengal, and with jurisdiction (subject to law and order being on the States' List of subjects) over Bengal, Bihar, Odisha, Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh; the Assam Rifles, responsible for Arunachal and Assam; the Manipur Rifles, responsible for the lower states among the seven sisters, except Nagaland. Both the Assam Rifles and the Manipur Rifles need to be sensitised first.

The CRPF needs to be positioned between these and the local police, not including the local armed police. They need to be specially trained in what the Green Berets derisively (and wrongly) called winning the hearts and minds of people; almost every successful counter-insurgency leader in India has warned earnestly and long about the need to set right conditions that lead to insurgency in the first place, and they have never been heeded by New Delhi.

A new CRPF needs to be very different from the old. They need to be armed, sufficient to hold off company strength attacks by insurgents in Chhatisgarh, Jharkhand and Odisha, but they need training, most of all. Both hard training and soft training.

Hard training would include crowd control, management of religious institutions (like the Gorakhpur Math, or Deoband) and their followers in armed mobs or in violent mood, management of NGOs, who inspire violence, management of disturbed localities, where injecting the RR and the Army with AFSPA is far too extreme a step, and simple, infantry tactics to defend against massed Maoist attacks.

Training in law, especially constitutional law, educating them about the limits of authority and about the inalienable rights of citizens; training in psychology, including and especially the psychology of adolescents; training in immersive re-education, to de-toxify brainwashed kids (and adults); training in the literature relating to each particular insurgency, for instance, into the literature relating to historical developments, such as the British treatment of the State of Bastar, in the years before independence, the post-independence history of Bastar, the views of the tribals of the former Bastar state (which is a significant part of Chhatisgarh), into administrative history for the area, legislation and special enactments, especially as relating to forest rights, when dealing with the Jharkhand and Chhatisgarh regions.

This means that we are looking at a new level of recruitment, educated young people, not farmers' sons joining because it is tradition, or due to poverty. We are looking at new specialisations, appropriate to the occasion.



Social media.

You should know that there is an entire and flourishing industry that is invested in the continuation of opposition to India and in violence. They are very powerful and influential.
What are your views on dismissal of sheikh abdullah in 1953?
 
Need to hire more Kashmiri writers/columnists to show the reality of azadi to Kashmiris. Firstly, there is absolutely no way India can or will give them azadi. Kashmir is way too important for India's national security. The demand for azadi is already a lost cause. Secondly, Kashmir has no future as an independent nation or a part of Pakistan. Their best bet for a better future is with India. They need to be made aware of that, not right now but when things cool down.

I know this is bad form, to mention other fora within a subscribed one, but you might like to join MVJKL - Moderate Voice of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, the Sualeh Keen one - on Facebook.

Tavleen Singh is married to a pakitani politician.
You cannot expect sane and pro india suggestions from her article.

That is VERY personal. And it is "...was married." The man died a hero's death, a martyr to secularism.
 
What are your views on dismissal of sheikh abdullah in 1953?

Absolutely necessary move

Gave us time till 1975 to establish and entrench ourselves

Need to hire more Kashmiri writers/columnists to show the reality of azadi to Kashmiris. Firstly, there is absolutely no way India can or will give them azadi. Kashmir is way too important for India's national security. The demand for azadi is already a lost cause. Secondly, Kashmir has no future as an independent nation or a part of Pakistan. Their best bet for a better future is with India. They need to be made aware of that, not right now but when things cool down.

The separatist leaders are NOT willing to talk or Listen to ANY BODY
including their own CM ; Abdullah Family ; Lone Family or their own local MLAs

That cabal of Geelani; Mirwaiz ; Yasin Malik is driving this violence

They will stay under house arrest as long as necessary
 
I know this is bad form, to mention other fora within a subscribed one, but you might like to join MVJKL - Moderate Voice of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, the Sualeh Keen one - on Facebook.

Thanks. I was actually a part of that group when I had FB but I deleted my FB profile a few months ago.

The separatist leaders are NOT willing to talk or Listen to ANY BODY
including their own CM ; Abdullah Family ; Lone Family or their own local MLAs

That cabal of Geelani; Mirwaiz ; Yasin Malik is driving this violence

They will stay under house arrest as long as necessary

Separatists don't come from Mars. They are thriving because they have considerable support among common people. What I said is not a quick fix solution, there isn't one. But over time, in 5-10 years if you are able to slowly change the mindset of the people and eat into their support base things may change. Burhan Wani was popular because he ran a propaganda campaign well, we need to do the same thing in the other direction.
 
When ISIS flags start appearing in the valley, it was clear that youth are being brainwashed by the Jihadi elements from both within India and outside. Wani was a fan of Zakir Naik and his last message from his face account was eulogizing Zakir Naik. The government of India should have taken these clues seriously. GOI in a way condoned these acts.

Talveen Singh is right in blaming Modi. Modi should have taken a clear position on Kashmir, which he didn't take. He was depending on time to solve Kashmir. Which is not a proactive measure.

The need of time for GOI is to declare that there is no question of 'azadi' and second taking immediate measures to de radicalize youth and give incentives for the youth to come to mainstream.
 

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