Jharkhand teacher asks students to learn national anthems of Pakistan, Bangladesh; kicks up row

[DalalErMaNodi]

You or I can't speak for most Pakistanis, we can only speak for ourselves unless we have some data to back out claims.

I would rather have local Pakistani language as National language, or maybe we should give a task to our linguistic scholars to make our own National language with combination of all major regional languages of Pakistan and slowly start moving toward it.

It's shame that fifth largest Nation on earth is using foreign languages for official work.



No, we share human DNA with all humanity, it's insult to fifth largest Nation when you name them Iranian or Indic.

We are Aryan of Pakistani origin. Where,

P= Punjab
A= Afghans
And you know the rest.

I heard Indians say Pakistanis stole Bihars language which is Urdu, not sure if this is true and they also told me Jinnah didn't know how to speak Urdu well.

Please enlighten me as to veracity of these statements. Secondly, why is English, an official language of Pakistan? Isn't that a bit over the top?


Forgive me for my ignorance, I'm just curious.

 

[Max]

I heard Indians say Pakistanis stole Bihars language which is Urdu, not sure if this is true and they also told me Jinnah didn't know how to speak Urdu well.

Please enlighten me as to veracity of these statements. Secondly, why is English, an official language of Pakistan? Isn't that a bit over the top?


Forgive me for my ignorance, I'm just curious.

Urdu is mixture of local language and Persian which originated in modern India. It's truth and no one can deny this. It was promoted as National language of Muslims of South Asia but I don't know what we stole? Did we stole Urdu books from Bihari Library?

Yes, Great Jinnah's Urdu was weak, even Imran Khan struggle to pronounce Arabic and heavy Persian words.

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Urdu is mixture of local language and Persian which originated in modern India. It's truth and no one can deny this. It was promoted as National language of Muslims of South Asia but I don't know what we stole? Did we stole Urdu books from Bihari Library?

Yes, Great Jinnah's Urdu was weak, even Imran Khan struggle to pronounce Arabic and heavy Persian words.

How many people in Pakistan can :

- Speak Urdu well?

- Get their point across somehow (as in their Urdu isn't perfect) ?

- Not speak Urdu at all but can understand it to some extent ?

Estimates will do, thank you.

 

[Cliftonite]

I heard Indians say Pakistanis stole Bihars language which is Urdu, not sure if this is true and they also told me Jinnah didn't know how to speak Urdu well.

Please enlighten me as to veracity of these statements. Secondly, why is English, an official language of Pakistan? Isn't that a bit over the top?


Forgive me for my ignorance, I'm just curious.

Urdu is a language of Western UP/upper Doab of UP. Bihari or rather Bhojpuri is quite different to Urdu

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Urdu is a language of Western UP/upper Doab of UP. Bihari or rather Bhojpuri is quite different to Urdu

I'm confused because the biharis that we have in Bangladesh, if you can call them that, speak Urdu and sounded to me like they're were quite good at it, so I assumed what the Indians were saying is true, that Urdu is from Bihar.

 

[Cliftonite]

How many people in Pakistan can :

- Speak Urdu well?

- Get their point across somehow (as in their Urdu isn't perfect) ?

- Not speak Urdu at all but can understand it to some extent ?

Estimates will do, thank you.

Close to 70-80% can speak Urdu as a second language. I've gone upto the China border and conversed in Urdu.

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Close to 70-80% can speak Urdu as a second language. I've gone upto the China border and conversed in Urdu.

Are the 20 to 30% who don't know how to speak Urdu, endemic to a particular region ? Or spread all across?


Btw did you recover?

 

[Max]

How many people in Pakistan can :

- Speak Urdu well?

- Get their point across with somehow (as in their Urdu isn't perfect) ?

- Not speak Urdu at all but can understand it some extent ?

Estimates will do, thank you.

there is difference b/w what is spoken and what is written, I am sure this is the case in Bengali as well.

There is no such study so I can't exectly pin point, I can only tell you what I feel.

Overwhelming majority of Pakistani speak local languages, it's only Karachi where Urdu is dominant and spoken outside.

Speak well but with heavy accent, you can tell he is Punjabi, Sindhi Or Pathan etc 80%.
10% can convey their message if asked to speak.
10% maybe can understand only.

This is my guess.

 

[Cliftonite]

Are the 20 to 30% who don't know how to speak Urdu, endemic to a particular region ? Or spread all across?


Btw did you recover?

Yeah I did. Thanks for asking.

The 20% are the ones in really rural areas of KPK Sindh and Balochistan.

 

[Bilal9]

I'm confused because the biharis that we have in Bangladesh, if you can call them that, speak Urdu and sounded to me like they're were quite good at it, so I assumed what the Indians were saying is true, that Urdu is from Bihar.

What you maybe thought they spoke was Urdu. Urdu and Bhojpuri as brother stated above is different.

Chosht Lakhnavi Urdu (As spoken by cultured folks in Lucknow, Hyderabad and as practiced by the poet Javed Akhtar) was spoken as such by most reputed Bengali Muslim families in West Bengal (among them Nawab of Murshidabad's courtiers, employees, relatives and descendents of the Jenana). Example is Suhrawardy's family and Hassan Askari's family. I'd say the majority of these folks have already moved to either Pakistan or Bangladesh and they also speak this formal Urdu at home. There are lots of families in old Dhaka who speak Urdu at home and even within their business community.

The more disadvantaged folks from Bihar who came to Bangladesh because of economic reasons speak Bhojpuri settled in Saidpur (close to Bihar area), and some of them now have integrated fully into Bangladeshi mainstream (though they still speak Bihari/Bhojpuri at home).

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

there is difference b/w what is spoken and what is written, I am sure this is the case in Bengali as well.

There is no such study so I can't exectly pin point, I can only tell you what I feel.

Overwhelming majority of Pakistani speak local languages, it's only Karachi where Urdu is dominant and spoken outside.

Speak well but with heavy accent, you can tell he is Punjabi, Sindhi Or Pathan etc 80%.
10% can convey their message if asked to speak.
10% maybe can understand only.

This is my guess.

Also, Urdu and Punjabi are very similar. Both have a similar origin, and Urdu has borrowed alot from Punjabi.

When Muslim soldiers came to Punjab and formerly Muslim majority Delhi, Lucknow, Agra, Allahabad regions, they brought with them Arabic, Turkish, Pukhto, and Farsi.

Together with precursor languages, modern Urdu, Sindhi, and Punjabi dialects came into being.

You or I can't speak for most Pakistanis, we can only speak for ourselves unless we have some data to back out claims.

I would rather have local Pakistani language as National language, or maybe we should give a task to our linguistic scholars to make our own National language with combination of all major regional languages of Pakistan and slowly start moving toward it.

It's shame that fifth largest Nation on earth is using foreign languages for official work.

All four of my grandparents spoke Dari fluently. It is not as foreign as you think.

Plus a great part of our literary history is in Dari like Masnavi, Hafiz, and Iqbal.

No, we share human DNA with all humanity, it's insult to fifth largest Nation when you name them Iranian or Indic.

We are Aryan of Pakistani origin. Where,

P= Punjab
A= Afghans
And you know the rest.

I said Iranic, not Iranian.

By the way, where in Pakistan are you from?

I am from Faisalabad, but originally from Kashmir-East Punjab border area.

 

[Max]

Also, Urdu and Punjabi are very similar. Both have a similar origin, and Urdu has borrowed alot from Punjabi.

When Muslim soldiers came to Punjab and formerly Muslim majority Delhi, Lucknow, Agra, Allahabad regions, they brought with them Arabic, Turkish, Pukhto, and Farsi.

Together with precursor languages, modern Urdu, Sindhi, and Punjabi dialects came into being.



All four of my grandparents spoke Dari fluently. It is not as foreign as you think.

Plus a great part of our literary history is in Dari like Masnavi, Hafiz, and Iqbal.



I said Iranic, not Iranian.

By the way, where in Pakistan are you from?

I am from Faisalabad, but originally from Kashmir-East Punjab border area.

I will support Dari when Afghanistan become part of Pakistan till then it's a foreign language, if your ancestors knew any foreign language doesn't mean it's our languag, we were colonized and forced to speak what British want for their ease, it was British who enforced Urdu on Punjab.

How many Persians or Turk say we should learn Punjabi, Sariki and Sindhi to learn Pakistan Sufi poetry?

All work can be translated to native languages including holy Quran and Hadith but for some reason we have to learn Dari to read Masnavi, Hafiz, Sherazi etc. Have some dose of dignity. Why you are so desperate to embrace foreign culture and identity? Why you suffer from such inferiority? Do you hate being Punjabi and Pakistani? Did your parents from Faisalabad taught you to not support anything local?

 

[bluesky]

Urdu is a language of Western UP/upper Doab of UP. Bihari or rather Bhojpuri is quite different to Urdu

As far as I understand, Urdu was developed in Lukhnow of UP by the Muslim period Nobles by their daily uses. Many Persian words have mixed with local Hindustani language that created this natural language, Urdu.

At one time, this language was understood by all people living in the east, north and west of Hindustan including Delhi, Agra, Lahore and Dhaka proper. Muhajirs from north India are basically the native speakers of Urdu in (west) Pakistan. It is their mother tongue.

 

[Cliftonite]

As far as I understand, Urdu was developed in Lukhnow of UP by the Muslim period Nobles by their daily uses. Many Persian words have mixed with local Hindustani language that created this natural language, Urdu.

At one time, this language was understood by all people living in the east, north and west of Hindustan including Delhi, Agra, Lahore and Dhaka proper. Muhajirs from north India are basically the native speakers of Urdu in (west) Pakistan. It is their mother tongue.

Yes. Urdu's ancestor is Khari Boli, spoken in the Doab region of Delhi between the Jamuna and Ganga rivers as far back as the 13th century during Amir Khusro's time. It was a lingua franca in the Mughal empire.

I think it's a bit erroneous to say Urdu was developed by Muslims. Urdu is a derivative of the dialects spoken on the UP Gangetic delta, such as Awadhi, Braj Brasha, Kannauji; before the Muslims took hold. What makes it Urdu is the infusion of Persian words by Muslim nobles. The base structure, grammar and morphology of Urdu is that of Central Indian languages.

 

[bluesky]

Yes. Urdu's ancestor is Khari Boli, spoken in the Doab region of Delhi between the Jamuna and Ganga rivers as far back as the 13th century during Amir Khusro's time. It was a lingua franca in the Mughal empire.

I think it's a bit erroneous to say Urdu was developed by Muslims. Urdu is a derivative of the dialects spoken on the UP Gangetic delta, such as Awadhi, Braj Brasha, Kannauji; before the Muslims took hold. What makes it Urdu is the infusion of Persian words by Muslim nobles. The base structure, grammar and morphology of Urdu is that of Central Indian languages.

I fully endorse your opinion that Urdu was developed in northern India by all people living there when they interacted among themselves by speaking their respective languages or dialects.

However, could Urdu develop without the presence of settler Muslims from central Asia who were culturally Persianized even before moving to Hindustan taking many centuries? So, essentially, Muslims contributed to the formation of Urdu, however, the grammar and the composition of sentences are same/similar to Hindi, the current main language in north India.

I have also noticed people from north India essentially speak in Urdu in their daily conversations, its film language and songs are also in Urdu. However, the language they use in newspapers and TVs are almost pure Hindi except that some words they have to borrow from Urdu.

When Urdu is a Hindustani language and is now spoken both in Pakistan and India, only Bangladesh remains out of it with Bengali. However, thanks to Indian TV programs, BD people are fast learning whatever it is Urdu or Hindi.