JF17:---More Hard Points Bigger Engine---Why!!!!!

[JamD]

Military planners should have taken this and other weapons into consideration when designing this fighter jet - now we have to buy another asset to carry these if that’s the case, to me it’s a case of failure in long term strategic and tactical thinking.

Couple of points:
1. The JF-17 was designed BEFORE the Ra'ad so a possible argument is that the Ra'ad should have been designed to be carried by the JF-17. This brings me to point 2.
2. An ALCM capability was needed for strategic purposes at all costs. I believe that the designers simply did not have the time, resources, and technology to design the perfect ALCM that is capable of being carried by all aircraft in PAF. They had limited time, resources, and technology and they did the best they could to give PAF a capability it lacked.

Now that that capability has been there for a while and has matured more things (such as SOW for JF-17) are coming online and I am reasonably certain that a smaller ALCM is in development.

 

[ziaulislam]

I had concluded that it was too big for either, wings or centerline. It was not a weight issue but a size issue. I think this CG image actually shows why it is a problem. The missile is shown stuck to the bottom of the fuselage which it would never be and the width of Ra'ad's horiztonal stabilizer is obvious. The width means it would interfere with landing gear operation and possibly flaps and elevators (mechanically and aerodynamically).

We have plenty of evidence that multiple SOW are in development which points to the fact that there are no plans for the Ra'ad to be fit on the JF-17.

Raad is afterall mostly a strategic weapon. The replacement will come once the mirages go which isn't happening till 2030...

The replacement will probably be a raad3 built for thunder

Military planners should have taken this and other weapons into consideration when designing this fighter jet - now we have to buy another asset to carry these if that’s the case, to me it’s a case of failure in long term strategic and tactical thinking.

Its easier to design a new weapon rather than a plan...

 

[khanasifm]

That's a fake, a CG, some artwork ...

Even on mirage the intake only drops out after launch and before launch it’s inside the missile body

 

[FuturePAF]

Has PAF or the Chinese ever asked what ever became of the RD-33 development for the planned Mig-41 aka the LMFS; called the VK-10M Engine?

Max Thrust between 22,000 lb (98 kN) to 24,200 lb (107.647 kN)

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/lmfs.htm
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mig-29-fulcrum-variant-may-get-bigger-engine-148674/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33#Specifications_(RD-33)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Couple of points:
1. The JF-17 was designed BEFORE the Ra'ad so a possible argument is that the Ra'ad should have been designed to be carried by the JF-17. This brings me to point 2.
2. An ALCM capability was needed for strategic purposes at all costs. I believe that the designers simply did not have the time, resources, and technology to design the perfect ALCM that is capable of being carried by all aircraft in PAF. They had limited time, resources, and technology and they did the best they could to give PAF a capability it lacked.

Now that that capability has been there for a while and has matured more things (such as SOW for JF-17) are coming online and I am reasonably certain that a smaller ALCM is in development.

Agreed. Moreover, the technology available to get the Ra'ad going may have also been much more limited. So, the deficiencies we're seeing with the horizontal stabilizer, size etc could just be a result of the time and, more importantly, few other countries aside from Europe and the US might have done better with the constraints.

Today, we're apparently doing some research on flight control systems, composites, etc. Moreover, the likes of China, South Africa, Ukraine, etc, have more experience working on ALCMs than in the 1990s. Finally, the COTS available are probably more advanced now, especially the miniature engines, electronics, etc.

So, a more compact ALCM (without sacrificing the range or payload of the Ra'ad/II) and replacements for the H2/H4 should be more tenable now. My guess, they'll be there the day the PAF decides to sunset the Mirages.

 

[FuturePAF]

Looking to the future for ALCM, MBDA has an interesting design to study.

 

[khanasifm]

Agreed. Moreover, the technology available to get the Ra'ad going may have also been much more limited. So, the deficiencies we're seeing with the horizontal stabilizer, size etc could just be a result of the time and, more importantly, few other countries aside from Europe and the US might have done better with the constraints.

Today, we're apparently doing some research on flight control systems, composites, etc. Moreover, the likes of China, South Africa, Ukraine, etc, have more experience working on ALCMs than in the 1990s. Finally, the COTS available are probably more advanced now, especially the miniature engines, electronics, etc.

So, a more compact ALCM (without sacrificing the range or payload of the Ra'ad/II) and replacements for the H2/H4 should be more tenable now. My guess, they'll be there the day the PAF decides to sunset the Mirages.

Per 23 March parade where RAad 1 and 2 was displayed , the commentator stated this weapon can be installed on all paf aircraft

last launch was speculated to be from jf
Video is on youtube

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Looking to the future for ALCM, MBDA has an interesting design to study.

The good thing about AvDI, AvRID, etc is that the PAF now actually has a place where real studies can take place. 10-15 years ago, suggesting anything like the above would merely be a pipe dream. But now, we know the PAF has a place to task engineers and scientists to look into this stuff. Whether they can proceed with making their own or not is another story, but it's plausible now.

 

[ziaulislam]

The good thing about AvDI, AvRID, etc is that the PAF now actually has a place where real studies can take place. 10-15 years ago, suggesting anything like the above would merely be a pipe dream. But now, we know the PAF has a place to task engineers and scientists to look into this stuff. Whether they can proceed with making their own or not is another story, but it's plausible now.

We will however, never really know till PAF announces it..as there is no real transparency or a thought of exports of weapons(some werent possible due to being license products IMO)

 

[FuturePAF]

The good thing about AvDI, AvRID, etc is that the PAF now actually has a place where real studies can take place. 10-15 years ago, suggesting anything like the above would merely be a pipe dream. But now, we know the PAF has a place to task engineers and scientists to look into this stuff. Whether they can proceed with making their own or not is another story, but it's plausible now.

Glad to hear. Didn't know this was going on. I hope they really do have a means to move forward with this kind of work ASAP.

 

[JamD]

The good thing about AvDI, AvRID, etc is that the PAF now actually has a place where real studies can take place. 10-15 years ago, suggesting anything like the above would merely be a pipe dream. But now, we know the PAF has a place to task engineers and scientists to look into this stuff. Whether they can proceed with making their own or not is another story, but it's plausible now.

Hate to be "that guy" twice in on day but I've heard some not so great things about the current people at avrid. The comment I heard from AWC people was avrid is a bunch of people with textbook knowledge and no idea how to do anything practical.

Of course theres a certain inter agency jealousy going on here and also probably some truth. It will take time before avrid builds an AWC like setup for implementing what they think of. In the meantime they should be collaborating which they dont seem to be (again probably due to inter agency rivalry).

 

[FuturePAF]

Hate to be "that guy" twice in on day but I've heard some not so great things about the current people at avrid. The comment I heard from AWC people was avrid is a bunch of people with textbook knowledge and no idea how to do anything practical.

Of course theres a certain inter agency jealousy going on here and also probably some truth. It will take time before avrid builds an AWC like setup for implementing what they think of. In the meantime they should be collaborating which they dont seem to be (again probably due to inter agency rivalry).

Or if they can't get along, at the very least they should partner with different foreign companies. One with Turkish Roketsan and the other with a Major Chinese firm. This reminds me of the rivalry 20-30 years ago of KRL and NESCOM. In fact AWC is part of NESCOM.

 

[untitled]

AvDI, AvRID,

These are?
If you don't mind me asking

 

[V. Makarov]

If Jf-17 has an unbeatable Electronic Warfare system, Early warning system, HMD, A jam proof radar, i am happy with it having even 2 hard points.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hate to be "that guy" twice in on day but I've heard some not so great things about the current people at avrid. The comment I heard from AWC people was avrid is a bunch of people with textbook knowledge and no idea how to do anything practical.

Of course theres a certain inter agency jealousy going on here and also probably some truth. It will take time before avrid builds an AWC like setup for implementing what they think of. In the meantime they should be collaborating which they dont seem to be (again probably due to inter agency rivalry).

It's Pakistan man, can't get your hopes too high in anything. But my earlier point still stands a bit in that we do have a place where research can occur, now let's hope this place matures and grows the right way, and not tumble into a failure.