JF17 BLK4-----Major Upgrade & Replacement For F16's

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I wrote this article a few hours ago and mailed it to dawn and express tribune----but looking at this major news coming out on dawn that we need 190 aircraft by 2020---here is the article

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

The Japanese are a small nation----and they know that they have an enemy with a larger air force. The first batch of the F2's may have some issues but the later ones did well--. The idea behind it is extremely thoughtful---and that is where the needs of pakistan air force, meet the design challenges and abilities of the current JF17's against their major adversary.

The JF17 program has entered a juncture where it needs to plan for where it needs to be in the next 5 years time frame for its BLK4 aircraft to meet the needs of the un-sanctioned and unhindered defence of pakistani air space---keeping in focus the ever looming open threat made by the U S senator a few days ago and to replace the F16 BLK 52 and take the capabilities of paf to the next level without procuring anymore F16's new or used / refurbished.

The capabilities and capacity of weapons load and electronics also needs to be re-assessed along with the physical structure changes to the aircraft----relocation of current wheels with taller ones---larger power plant---larger wing area and use of composite material to reduce the weight.
The target for the aircraft in weight carrying capacity needs to be in the range of 7000-8000 KG with at least 9-11 hard points.

And as we discussed---to meet the challenge, the size of the aircraft needs to be similar to the japanese F2---which is a slightly larger aircraft than the F16 with a 25% larger wing span.

The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.

The re-positioning of the wheels must allow it to carry extra fuel in the wing fuel tanks and extending into the side of the main frame as well just like the Gripen NG.The aircraft must also have conformal fuel tanks as well as aerial refuelling capabilities with a hidden refueller receptacle like that on the Tornado.

The wings must support 2 ALCM's or 2 anti ship missiles in the weight range of 1000-1250 KG each and 2 fuel tanks along with the conformal fuel tanks.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.

The design of the fuel tanks must be reconfigured and streamline---instead of the round tanks---they must be rectangular / squarish like those on the Gripen NG to give more fuel capacity to each tank and make it more aerodynamic as well.

The aircraft will have a dedicated IRST and off course a potent fire control Aesa radar with at least 1000 T / R modules---high off bore missile launch capability---rear missile launch detection---jammer pod---sniper type pod and all other paraphernalia and electronic gadgetry that makes a first grade fighter interceptor and strike aircraft of the 4.5 gen class---.

The two seater version should be at least 1/4th of the production right from the start---. For the engine---in 2-3 years time there will be many an options available either the chinese version---the russian or the european engine---.

Also the chinese PL15 would be a mature BVR missile by that time and so would be the chinese HOBS ( high off bore sight ) missile as well. This is not taking into account what other items maybe on offer from manufacturers other than the chinese.

Defence equipment manufacturers like Turkish Aselsan---So. African Denel and Italian Selex need to be on board to provide an option for electronics and weapons packages for paf and for other nations who want to buy this aircraft.

This aircraft would basically take over from where the BLK 52 left----it will negate the need for any further induction of the F16's into the paf in a very short period of time and reduce the liability of sanctions to a ZERO.

There would be no need to spend more money for any new F16's or any used / re-furbished F16's either in the near future. Paf must move away from teh F16 once for all.

Pakistan air force and pakistanis should be really weary of the video leaked by wikileaks that showed the british and the U S intel agencies sabotaging the Israeli drone and the Israeli F16---. The capability of these agencies to log into a live feed of the Israeli drone Heron and to show the live feed of an Israeli F16 HUD is something to be very concerned about.

This basically leads into the world of the never ending rumors of " kill switches ". The bottom line over here is that if those agencies can do it to the Israelis---then they can do it to the pakistani F16's as well---and if they have that much control over what is happening inside the cockpit---then there is no reason not to believe that they can control other electronic functions of the aircraft as well when they desire.

So---in reality---the sanctions of the FUTURE are going to be different from the sanctions of the PAST.
Whereas the sanctions of the past were a stoppage to the supply of parts---the sanctions of the future would include that and would also include the sanctions of the ELECTRONIC type as well---in the form of giving denial for the aircraft engine to operate at full power---to negating any missile launch or bomb drop---or curtailing the use of the instrument panel to just shutting down the aircraft.

The reader should understand that in the U S---even car dealers have that technology of kill switches available to them that they sometimes install on cars. These cars are sold to customers with bad credit and on not recieving payments in time and with a warning to the customer the vehicle operation can be stopped just like that by putting a code into the system.

On newer cars---you can call the factory and have them remotely unlock the doors of the cars. Many a high end vehicles have had their brakes hacked---power steering hacked---( current power steerings are not hydraulic powered but powered by an electric motor )---air conditioning systems hacked---engines hacked remotely thru the internet connection that the vehicle has.

So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
AKA MastanKhan
Defence.pk

@Khafee @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch

 

[Viper0011.]

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.
@Khafee @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch

I see where you are going with this. The JFT is a a Pakistani platform. Meaning you own it and should be doing further R&D on it. If I was a defense strategist of the PAF, I'd have outlined PAF's future priorities:

1) Re-design the JFT's air-frame to include more hard-points, AESA and a more powerful power plant for block III or IV (block IV more like it I guess as its too late for block III)

2) Get FC-20 with TOT and name it the JFT block IV. This will eliminate the need for another imported platform for good, unless you want to buy stealthy air-crafts. Future R&D on this tech would allow Pakistan to build anything regarding jets pretty much. Plus, continue on with JFT block II and III as the standard to replace older jets (as its still 4th gen platform). Do an AESA upgrade ASAP / when available.

3) Take a bitter pill once for good, and acquire J-31 platform with TOT. Get some twin engine jets for the PN and PAF's heavy requirements. But use the TOT to develop a single engine variant in numbers with the size of FC-20 / a little bigger than the F-16. This will kill multiple birds with one stone. You'd have acquired a Stealth platform, plus future R&D on stealth objects obviously, plus you'd have miniaturize it to where the maintenance would become much cheaper with one engine (like the F-16 concept, only stealthier and probably better avionics than the PAF's F-16 version due to AESA being available).

4) I would for sure, invest into long range SAMS with TOT and internally produce those and do more R&D internally. Even get some consultants from Russia from TOR or the manufacturers of S series, and allow them to guide Pakistan towards a much stronger variant of the acquired SAM system. Pakistan should be able to stop and threaten Indian jets way inside the Indian airspace by like 40-60 KM's.

 

[Dark Eradicator Warlock]

Hi,

I wrote this article a few hours ago and mailed it to dawn and express tribune----but looking at this major news coming out on dawn that we need 190 aircraft by 2020---here is the article

The threat of the " anytime sanctions during 30 years into future " by the U S senator on the F16's, must be negated by the pakistan air force. This is just an eye opener kind of disclaimer given by U S senator Corker to Pakistan in good american faith.

And as always----the U S has told Pakistan upfront in what maybe coming anytime in the future if things go awry. By now---we should be able to understand what may trigger the sanctions by the indian dominated U S congress and senate. It maybe be an attack on the U S soil by terrorists of Pakistan origin---an attack on the Indian soil by terrorists and other similar acts.

The pakistanis may chose to disagree or agree on who the terrorists maybe and what their agenda
could be---but the fact will remain that it may result in sanctions.

To confront that and to take charge of the problem---the paf needs to think out of the box and make some serious changes to the design of the JF17 aircraft on a fastrak to combat the issue.

It needs to look at the size of the Japanese F2 fighter aircraft in comparison to the size of the F16. They designed a slightly larger aircraft that could carry more weight of weapons than the F16 and other equipment and added an aesa fire control radar.

The Japanese are a small nation----and they know that they have an enemy with a larger air force. The first batch of the F2's may have some issues but the later ones did well--. The idea behind it is extremely thoughtful---and that is where the needs of pakistan air force, meet the design challenges and abilities of the current JF17's against their major adversary.

The JF17 program has entered a juncture where it needs to plan for where it needs to be in the next 5 years time frame for its BLK4 aircraft to meet the needs of the un-sanctioned and unhindered defence of pakistani air space---keeping in focus the ever looming open threat made by the U S senator a few days ago and to replace the F16 BLK 52 and take the capabilities of paf to the next level without procuring anymore F16's new or used / refurbished.

The capabilities and capacity of weapons load and electronics also needs to be re-assessed along with the physical structure changes to the aircraft----relocation of current wheels with taller ones---larger power plant---larger wing area and use of composite material to reduce the weight.
The target for the aircraft in weight carrying capacity needs to be in the range of 7000-8000 KG with at least 9-11 hard points.

And as we discussed---to meet the challenge, the size of the aircraft needs to be similar to the japanese F2---which is a slightly larger aircraft than the F16 with a 25% larger wing span.

The wheels of the JF 17 need to be moved outwards like those on the Gripen NG---and it needs to have TALLER wheels for more ground clearance---so that there should not be any problems in mounting heavy air launched cruise missiles like the Hatf V111---anti ship missile like the CM 400 AKG or the air launch version of the Babur cruise missile.

The re-positioning of the wheels must allow it to carry extra fuel in the wing fuel tanks and extending into the side of the main frame as well just like the Gripen NG.The aircraft must also have conformal fuel tanks as well as aerial refuelling capabilities with a hidden refueller receptacle like that on the Tornado.

The wings must support 2 ALCM's or 2 anti ship missiles in the weight range of 1000-1250 KG each and 2 fuel tanks along with the conformal fuel tanks.

In a fighter interceptor mode, it needs to have the ability to carry 8 BVR missiles and 4 WVR missiles on its pylons including 2 fuel tanks plus the conformal tanks if needed depending on the mission. It should also have the ability of buddy refuelling which means that along with conformal fuel tanks---it would be carrying 4 fuel tanks on the wing pylons to refuel other aircraft as an option.

The design of the fuel tanks must be reconfigured and streamline---instead of the round tanks---they must be rectangular / squarish like those on the Gripen NG to give more fuel capacity to each tank and make it more aerodynamic as well.

The aircraft will have a dedicated IRST and off course a potent fire control Aesa radar with at least 1000 T / R modules---high off bore missile launch capability---rear missile launch detection---jammer pod---sniper type pod and all other paraphernalia and electronic gadgetry that makes a first grade fighter interceptor and strike aircraft of the 4.5 gen class---.

The two seater version should be at least 1/4th of the production right from the start---. For the engine---in 2-3 years time there will be many an options available either the chinese version---the russian or the european engine---.

Also the chinese PL15 would be a mature BVR missile by that time and so would be the chinese HOBS ( high off bore sight ) missile as well. This is not taking into account what other items maybe on offer from manufacturers other than the chinese.

Defence equipment manufacturers like Turkish Aselsan---So. African Denel and Italian Selex need to be on board to provide an option for electronics and weapons packages for paf and for other nations who want to buy this aircraft.

This aircraft would basically take over from where the BLK 52 left----it will negate the need for any further induction of the F16's into the paf in a very short period of time and reduce the liability of sanctions to a ZERO.

There would be no need to spend more money for any new F16's or any used / re-furbished F16's either in the near future. Paf must move away from teh F16 once for all.

Pakistan air force and pakistanis should be really weary of the video leaked by wikileaks that showed the british and the U S intel agencies sabotaging the Israeli drone and the Israeli F16---. The capability of these agencies to log into a live feed of the Israeli drone Heron and to show the live feed of an Israeli F16 HUD is something to be very concerned about.

This basically leads into the world of the never ending rumors of " kill switches ". The bottom line over here is that if those agencies can do it to the Israelis---then they can do it to the pakistani F16's as well---and if they have that much control over what is happening inside the cockpit---then there is no reason not to believe that they can control other electronic functions of the aircraft as well when they desire.

So---in reality---the sanctions of the FUTURE are going to be different from the sanctions of the PAST.
Whereas the sanctions of the past were a stoppage to the supply of parts---the sanctions of the future would include that and would also include the sanctions of the ELECTRONIC type as well---in the form of giving denial for the aircraft engine to operate at full power---to negating any missile launch or bomb drop---or curtailing the use of the instrument panel to just shutting down the aircraft.

The reader should understand that in the U S---even car dealers have that technology of kill switches available to them that they sometimes install on cars. These cars are sold to customers with bad credit and on not recieving payments in time and with a warning to the customer the vehicle operation can be stopped just like that by putting a code into the system.

On newer cars---you can call the factory and have them remotely unlock the doors of the cars. Many a high end vehicles have had their brakes hacked---power steering hacked---( current power steerings are not hydraulic powered but powered by an electric motor )---air conditioning systems hacked---engines hacked remotely thru the internet connection that the vehicle has.

So---if there is a belief for some in pakistan that kill switches are not real---well then let them live in illusion ---for others---it is time to act.
Thank you,
Sincerely,
AKA MastanKhan
Defence.pk

@Khafee @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch

After dawn and express tribune, you should also try to send it to PAF ( and im not joking )

 

[MastanKhan]

After dawn and express tribune, you should also try to send it to PAF ( and im not joking )

Hi,

I would---but their emails don't work.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@MastanKhan
Block 4 not required to fulfill gap of 190 soon to be retired fighter jets of PAF, in fact block 2 (still under production) and block 3 (possibly to produce with major modifications) are enough for the 4th gen fighter requirements...it is highly unlikely Pakistan produce another block of JF-17. After block 3 PAF will probably go for 4.5th gen heavy fighter J.V with China or Russia US also can't be ruled out.

 

[IceCold]

Unless someone finds out what the hell is going with PAF and their love for the F-16s, nothing is going to change on ground. F-16 is a capable fighter jet there is no denying but when it comes severely handicapped and by handicapped i dont mean the kill switches, i mean the threat of sanctions which could simply ground the entire fleet, all other points of how superior it is becomes moot.
Pakistan needs something that is sanctioned prove and up and ready when duty calls. I would go even further and say that PAF after making the mirage deal error made another grave mistake and this time it was for the J-10s. Imagine had PAF acquired J-10s when it were offered during Musharraf time, not only would PAF have familiarize itself with the jet 10 years down the lane but also it would have been receiving upgrades at the same rate JF-17 is. Plus since PAF would have had ample time to see the plane inside out, they would also be in a much better position to give their inputs into the whole J-10 program.
That would have presented a unique opportunity for PAF to remain engaged in the development process of not just JF-17 but also J-10 and gaining valuable knowledge and getting ready to absorb future technology such as a 5th generation fighter jet.
@MastanKhan

 

[MystryMan]

Is there potential of using FC-31 in dual role like a Stealth Fighter when using Internal Weapons Bay and as Heavy Strike Aircraft when using External Weapon Stores?
If Yes we should focus on FC-31 (kill two birds with one stone).
@MastanKhan @Viper0011. @Quwa

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Is there potential of using FC-31 in dual role like a Stealth Fighter when using Internal Weapons Bay and as Heavy Strike Aircraft when using External Weapon Stores?
If Yes we should focus on FC-31 (kill two birds with one stone).
@MastanKhan @Viper0011.

pretty valid question ? but what is the range of J31? Does it fall in the category of heavy strike fighter ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Is there potential of using FC-31 in dual role like a Stealth Fighter when using Internal Weapons Bay and as Heavy Strike Aircraft when using External Weapon Stores?
If Yes we should focus on FC-31 (kill two birds with one stone).
@MastanKhan @Viper0011. @Quwa

Hi,

Please don't mind the 'heat'---so there is still the mindset that we get the J31 and all is hunky dory---.

It does not work that way---. The more the technology---the worst the growing pains---the more time consuming integration is.

So---the J31 won't be ready till around 5 years---then add around 8-12 years for integration and sorting out the kinks.

Please just read up on when the F22 and JSF35 program started and when the aircraft got into service----.

It defeats the purpose of stealth aircraft to be used as strike platform---that is why I started the thread that without a heavy strike platform---the utility of the stealth aircraft would not be maxed out---it might fail.

Then today I posted a link on how the JSF35 would use the utility of a heavy aircraft thru standoff weapons.

Block IV won't be coming ....... !!! there is a Twin engine very low RCS aircraft on drawing board .... Hope so It gets through all hurdles ...!!!!

Hi,

That would be a terrible mistake----a new aircraft---new growing pains---more time for integrations----.

ALL YOU NEW COMERS---WHEN YOU TALK OF A BRAND NEW PLANE---KEEP IN MIND 10 YEARS INTEGRATION TIME PERIOD BY DEFAULT.

Unless someone finds out what the hell is going with PAF and their love for the F-16s, nothing is going to change on ground. F-16 is a capable fighter jet there is no denying but when it comes severely handicapped and by handicapped i dont mean the kill switches, i mean the threat of sanctions which could simply ground the entire fleet, all other points of how superior it is becomes moot.
Pakistan needs something that is sanctioned prove and up and ready when duty calls. I would go even further and say that PAF after making the mirage deal error made another grave mistake and this time it was for the J-10s. Imagine had PAF acquired J-10s when it were offered during Musharraf time, not only would PAF have familiarize itself with the jet 10 years down the lane but also it would have been receiving upgrades at the same rate JF-17 is. Plus since PAF would have had ample time to see the plane inside out, they would also be in a much better position to give their inputs into the whole J-10 program.
That would have presented a unique opportunity for PAF to remain engaged in the development process of not just JF-17 but also J-10 and gaining valuable knowledge and getting ready to absorb future technology such as a 5th generation fighter jet.
@MastanKhan

Hi,

Just like you---that is what I have been saying---that was again the biggest bluner by the paf for not going with the J10's that Musharraf ordered.

If I had any say in it---I would have shut down the JF 17 program completely and gone for the J10's and developed it as I wanted to.

That would have given the air force an F16 type and size aircraft that would have been an answer to the issues and problems we have.

@MastanKhan
Block 4 not required to fulfill gap of 190 soon to be retired fighter jets of PAF, in fact block 2 (still under production) and block 3 (possibly to produce with major modifications) are enough for the 4th gen fighter requirements...it is highly unlikely Pakistan produce another block of JF-17. After block 3 PAF will probably go for 4.5th gen heavy fighter J.V with China or Russia US also can't be ruled out.

Hi,

The paf will have to do something to fill the hole of the F16's as well. Just because we have them---they cannot be counted----.

The ELECTRONIC sanctions that I have discussed in my post will be effective right from day one----and the 5 years parts purchase won't do didley sh-it.

I keep telling you guys about the kill switches---I mean to say---we car dealers put these kill switches on customers cars ( actually the lender does )----it also has a gps tracker imbeded as well---so the lender can see on his computer where the vehicle---and if need be---he can punch in a code and shut down the engine---basically they do it when the car is parked in a parking lot----because that is the law---.

So---even though they are deadly aircraft---you might as well write the F16's off---just don't count them in during a conflict---or otherwise.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Hi,

Please don't mind the 'heat'---so there is still the mindset that we get the J31 and all is hunky dory---.

It does not work that way---. The more the technology---the worst the growing pains---the more time consuming integration is.

So---the J31 won't be ready till around 5 years---then add around 8-12 years for integration and sorting out the kinks.

Please just read up on when the F22 and JSF35 program started and when the aircraft got into service----.

It defeats the purpose of stealth aircraft to be used as strike platform---that is why I started the thread that without a heavy strike platform---the utility of the stealth aircraft would not be maxed out---it might fail.

Then today I posted a link on how the JSF35 would use the utility of a heavy aircraft thru standoff weapons.




Hi,

That would be a terrible mistake----a new aircraft---new growing pains---more time for integrations----.

ALL YOU NEW COMERS---WHEN YOU TALK OF A BRAND NEW PLANE---KEEP IN MIND 10 YEARS INTEGRATION TIME PERIOD BY DEFAULT.




Hi,

Just like you---that is what I have been saying---that was again the biggest bluner by the paf for not going with the J10's that Musharraf ordered.

If I had any say in it---I would have shut down the JF 17 program completely and gone for the J10's and developed it as I wanted to.

That would have given the air force an F16 type and size aircraft that would have been an answer to the issues and problems we have.




Hi,

The paf will have to do something to fill the hole of the F16's as well. Just because we have them---they cannot be counted----.

The ELECTRONIC sanctions that I have discussed in my post will be effective right from day one----and the 5 years parts purchase won't do didley sh-it.

I keep telling you guys about the kill switches---I mean to say---we car dealers put these kill switches on customers cars ( actually the lender does )----it also has a gps tracker imbeded as well---so the lender can see on his computer where the vehicle---and if need be---he can punch in a code and shut down the engine---basically they do it when the car is parked in a parking lot----because that is the law---.

So---even though they are deadly aircraft---you might as well write the F16's off---just don't count them in during a conflict---or otherwise.

Sir PAF officials are not fool to buy F-16 with so called kill switches, as i told you earlier it is simply friend and foe system that rumored to be kill switches. For filling F-16 position which likely be in 2025 or after we have option of J-31 or even F-35.

 

[ravi gupta]

Hi,

Please don't mind the 'heat'---so there is still the mindset that we get the J31 and all is hunky dory---.

It does not work that way---. The more the technology---the worst the growing pains---the more time consuming integration is.

So---the J31 won't be ready till around 5 years---then add around 8-12 years for integration and sorting out the kinks.

Please just read up on when the F22 and JSF35 program started and when the aircraft got into service----.

It defeats the purpose of stealth aircraft to be used as strike platform---that is why I started the thread that without a heavy strike platform---the utility of the stealth aircraft would not be maxed out---it might fail.

Then today I posted a link on how the JSF35 would use the utility of a heavy aircraft thru standoff weapons.




Hi,

That would be a terrible mistake----a new aircraft---new growing pains---more time for integrations----.

ALL YOU NEW COMERS---WHEN YOU TALK OF A BRAND NEW PLANE---KEEP IN MIND 10 YEARS INTEGRATION TIME PERIOD BY DEFAULT.




Hi,

Just like you---that is what I have been saying---that was again the biggest bluner by the paf for not going with the J10's that Musharraf ordered.

If I had any say in it---I would have shut down the JF 17 program completely and gone for the J10's and developed it as I wanted to.

That would have given the air force an F16 type and size aircraft that would have been an answer to the issues and problems we have.




Hi,

The paf will have to do something to fill the hole of the F16's as well. Just because we have them---they cannot be counted----.

The ELECTRONIC sanctions that I have discussed in my post will be effective right from day one----and the 5 years parts purchase won't do didley sh-it.

I keep telling you guys about the kill switches---I mean to say---we car dealers put these kill switches on customers cars ( actually the lender does )----it also has a gps tracker imbeded as well---so the lender can see on his computer where the vehicle---and if need be---he can punch in a code and shut down the engine---basically they do it when the car is parked in a parking lot----because that is the law---.

So---even though they are deadly aircraft---you might as well write the F16's off---just don't count them in during a conflict---or otherwise.

Dear MK,

After all this upgradation in block IV as you mention,what will be the approx unit cost of the aircraft.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

What about Mass Production of these (J-31 J-20) via TOT

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir PAF officials are not fool to buy F-16 with so called kill switches, as i told you earlier it is simply friend and foe system that rumored to be kill switches. For filling F-16 position which likely be in 2025 or after we have option of J-31 or even F-35.

My man,

I thought you were more intelligent than that----you disappoint me---.

You think after writing for 25 years and reading thousand of books I do not know what friend or foe is.

I am giving you techincal reasoning---I am telling you that in the U S we car dealer put kill switches on cars---I have given you examples of late model vehicles being hacked out of control---I have been telling you that it is a requirement of Homeland security that all aircraft after 2007 have kill switches in them---regardless they are flown by the U S pilots or anyone else or U S military pilots---and you are telling me that it is 'friend or foe'---.

Pak air force is a fckd up organization---is that what you wanted to hear---. This organization has not been held accountable for its failures for the last 50 years---noone has held the air chief's feet to the fire for the failure---and you trust them---?????

Dear MK,

After all this upgradation in block IV as you mention,what will be the approx unit cost of the aircraft.

Hi,

Without the aesa---would be around 20-25 million apiece for if the number goes above 150---that is for paf. With aesa---you can add 5 million on the high side.

For other buyers---it could be around 35-40 million a piece.

Remember---this is not a major major transformation---. With available funds---I would say the project would take around 1 year.

 

[cirr]

This is a better choice for the PAF for the next 30 years：

v2.0 due out soon。

 

[Maarkhoor]

My man,

I thought you were more intelligent than that----you disappoint me---.

You think after writing for 25 years and reading thousand of books I do not know what friend or foe is.

I am giving you techincal reasoning---I am telling you that in the U S we car dealer put kill switches on cars---I have given you examples of late model vehicles being hacked out of control---I have been telling you that it is a requirement of Homeland security that all aircraft after 2007 have kill switches in them---regardless they are flown by the U S pilots or anyone else or U S military pilots---and you are telling me that it is 'friend or foe'---.

Pak air force is a fckd up organization---is that what you wanted to hear---. This organization has not been held accountable for its failures for the last 50 years---noone has held the air chief's feet to the fire for the failure---and you trust them---?????

Just one question....i read many quotes many news clips many articles about US raid on Osama, many officials admitted that they were hurry in conducting and leaving the place before Pakistan scramble its F-16 even they said once F-16 on air they are ready inside Afghan border with AWAC aircraft and F-18 to engage Pakistani F-16 jets...Now tell me why not at that time they simply kill them on ground rather then preparing air war with PAF. Sir i know u have more knowledge and info as compare to me but please listen my logic also.