JF-17X- A Pakistani Stealth Fighter

[Young-khan]

i was overreact and didn't read the your post carefully,sorry,it's my fault,i thought you was indian....

Thats ok friend.

 

[gogbot]

Because china is a smart, it knows the amount of money india is spending of defence. Just look at iaf aquiring mki in huge numbers and thats just a start they are going to buy more.

Now they are ready to jump in to bed wuth usa and possibly f18 are on the cards. So china can not ignore this and countering india with pakistans help is easier then countering india by its self.

This serves the interests of both pakistan and china.

Whats stopping the US from getting China's flash new jet J-xx , from Pakistan the same way PAk gave f-16 to China.

Pak Gov is still very much allied to the US and relies on it as an arms suppliers. It isn't Too far fetched to assume the US trowing its weight arround to get a plane from Pakistan.

Why do you think you guys get the FC-20 instead of a J-10B.
US a rival of China has too much influence in Pakistan. They dont want their best tech ending up in US hands.

So Why if they cant even trust you with the j-10B will China give you J-xx.

Its China's gamble, but based on their past decisions. I doubt you will get access to their latest tech.

You have to Rid your self of US influences as well as other powers before China can freely give you what it can.

But at that point you will be fully reliant on China and will have to play by their rules.
But they are your friends so id it worth it ?
Can live with a friend that is calling some of your shots.

 

[a1b2c145]

jf-17x and jxx are beautiful dreams

 

[aimarraul]

Whats stopping the US from getting China's flash new jet J-xx , from Pakistan the same way PAk gave f-16 to China.

Pak Gov is still very much allied to the US and relies on it as an arms suppliers. It isn't Too far fetched to assume the US trowing its weight arround to get a plane from Pakistan.

Why do you think you guys get the FC-20 instead of a J-10B.
US a rival of China has too much influence in Pakistan. They dont want their best tech ending up in US hands.

So Why if they cant even trust you with the j-10B will China give you J-xx.

Its China's gamble, but based on their past decisions. I doubt you will get access to their latest tech.

You have to Rid your self of US influences as well as other powers before China can freely give you what it can.

But at that point you will be fully reliant on China and will have to play by their rules.
But they are your friends so id it worth it ?
Can live with a friend that is calling some of your shots.

J-XX is sth most chinese aren't even sure its exist,pakistan bought F-16 Block52 only because F-20 is still under test and a limiting factor that everyone knows,it wouldn't hurt having more options before china catch up US,maybe F-20 will be different from J-10B,but it will meet PAF's requirements, at least able to counter SU30-MKI,otherwise PAF won't even conside it as a option,china can trust pakistan,we know what kind of helps they've provided to us,but it doesn't mean both countries need to open everything to each other,as a person we can there is nothing wrong with that,
i can insure you one thing ,if J-XX success，pakistan will definitely have it, it will still be different from our verison,but we will make sure it can counter PAK-FA

 

[aimarraul]

But at that point you will be fully reliant on China and will have to play by their rules.
But they are your friends so id it worth it ?
Can live with a friend that is calling some of your shots.

please read our "Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence"
“Mutual non-interference in each other's internal affairs” it's the main reason china always have more friends .if china force our friend play by our "rules", N.K wouldn't have NB

 

[gogbot]

J-XX is sth most chinese aren't even sure its exist,pakistan bought F-16 Block52 only besause F-20 is still under test and a limiting factor that everyone knows,it wouldn't hurt having more options before china catch up US,maybe F-20 will be different from J-10B,but it will meet PAF's requirements, at least able to counter SU30-MKI,otherwise PAF won't even conside it as a option,china can trust pakistan,we know what kind of helps they've provided to us,but it doesn't mean both countries need to open everything to each other,as a person we can there is nothing wrong with that,
i can insure you one thing ,if J-XX success，pakistan will definitely have it, it will still be different from our verison,but we will make sure it can counter PAK-FA

Well i agree with you on these points.

J-xx will be a success
Fc-20 may be be good enough to effectively counter(not match) Current MKI
JX-17 seems like a good idea, seems to a potent 4.5 gen plane


But like i said earlier, you are taking a gamble when you give your latest tech to another country, especially one which is has a significant US influence in it.
Its a gamble , That doesn't mean China doesn't gamble.

If you do give Pakistan all your latest tech and the US gets its hands on it, China will be the One to suffer.

But the J-xx is still to be Inducted into the PLAAF, exporting it to PAK before this, is the a top priority for the CCP.

Will Pakistan have it, yes probably, anytime in the same time line as the FGFA or J-xx. NO

Because lets face it , you just dont start selling 5th gen jets like they are Ak-47's.

You try to ensure your latest tech is well a secret.
Pakistan may get a variant of the J-XX after its inductions. and a new upgrade is being developed.

The question to be be asked now is when will Pak get the J-XX, it certainly wont be anywhere in this decade. as i have established.

 

[gogbot]

please read our "Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence"
“Mutual non-interference in each other's internal affairs” it's the main reason china always have more friends .if china force our friend play by our "rules", N.K wouldn't have NB

Listen I am not saying China will start to give orders to Pakistan, but am saying that Pakistan will be in China's pocket at that point.
Just because its in the pocket of china doesn't mean China will Take advantage, But its still in China's Pocket.
That's all i said.

 

[desiman]

Man this fanboy love for the JF-17 is realyl getting weird now. Does anyone here have any idea what a 5th generation aircraft is ? lol People talk about JF-17 getting this and that and then it will become a 5th or even high 4th generation aircraft. let review this shall we -
1) People the only reason pakistan has bought the JF-17 is that it is the only thing they can afford to get in large numbers, its not because its an amazing jet or because it can be turned into a 5th generation. The JF-17 is low cost, fast turnover aircraft that is good in numbers. In its current form it hardly qualifies as a true 4th generation aircraft so getting it upto a 5th generation aircraft standard is nothing but a dream.
2) talking about getting this and that, please remember this that the PAF was not even able to upgrade its F-16's properly. Most of the F-16 apart from the one recently inducted into that PAF, are underpowered and old. If i was managing the PAF i would upgrade the F-16's before as they are a proven fighter and easily better than the JF-17 (i know lot of people would want to kill me because i said this lol but this is the truth people)
3) Currently the JF-17 cost less than half of what a MKI cost, if the JF-17 even has plans to get any one of the upgrades all the fanboys are dreaming of, it will increase the cost and again that would be too much for the PAF. The most the JF-17 will be able to get, by my analysis is maybe a new engine and maybe again maybe a better radar, and thats it. No stealth features, no pesa radar, and nothing else.
4) Does anyone even have any idea how much time and money goes into even changing one nut on a jet. Changing anything on a jet, you have to change the whole structure, every support plate on the structure, electronics, components etc etc. The cost of all the upgrades that some people are talking about here is nothing but huge. It would cost the PAF billions of dollars. It would be just wise to get a new jet for that much money. The JF-17 will stay the way it is for sometime, until the PAF get more resources or is not able to get hold of anything else. I work in procurement so please dont argue about the cost lol its my everyday job
Feel free to disagree.

 

[aimarraul]

Well i agree with you on these points.

J-xx will be a success
Fc-20 may be be good enough to effectively counter(not match) Current MKI
JX-17 seems like a good idea, seems to a potent 4.5 gen plane


But like i said earlier, you are taking a gamble when you give your latest tech to another country, especially one which is has a significant US influence in it.
Its a gamble , That doesn't mean China doesn't gamble.

If you do give Pakistan all your latest tech and the US gets its hands on it, China will be the One to suffer.

But the J-xx is still to be Inducted into the PLAAF, exporting it to PAK before this, is the a top priority for the CCP.

Will Pakistan have it, yes probably, anytime in the same time line as the FGFA or J-xx. NO

Because lets face it , you just dont start selling 5th gen jets like they are Ak-47's.

You try to ensure your latest tech is well a secret.
Pakistan may get a variant of the J-XX after its inductions. and a new upgrade is being developed.

The question to be be asked now is when will Pak get the J-XX, it certainly wont be anywhere in this decade. as i have established.

there is limit of the next gen jets because it need more and more money....china will try to make india's FGFA busy around McMahon Line and buy more time for pakistan.at the same time ,speed up the upgrading like what we did over the last 10 years,we call pakistan "brother country" ,there is trust and friendship between pakistani and chinese,that's why i wish the best of pakistan,i believe they will develop everything by themself,i know it takes time,but pakistan have 180 million people ,i have faith in them.

 

[Young-khan]

Man this fanboy love for the JF-17 is realyl getting weird now. Does anyone here have any idea what a 5th generation aircraft is ? lol People talk about JF-17 getting this and that and then it will become a 5th or even high 4th generation aircraft. let review this shall we -
1) People the only reason pakistan has bought the JF-17 is that it is the only thing they can afford to get in large numbers, its not because its an amazing jet or because it can be turned into a 5th generation. The JF-17 is low cost, fast turnover aircraft that is good in numbers. In its current form it hardly qualifies as a true 4th generation aircraft so getting it upto a 5th generation aircraft standard is nothing but a dream.
2) talking about getting this and that, please remember this that the PAF was not even able to upgrade its F-16's properly. Most of the F-16 apart from the one recently inducted into that PAF, are underpowered and old. If i was managing the PAF i would upgrade the F-16's before as they are a proven fighter and easily better than the JF-17 (i know lot of people would want to kill me because i said this lol but this is the truth people)
3) Currently the JF-17 cost less than half of what a MKI cost, if the JF-17 even has plans to get any one of the upgrades all the fanboys are dreaming of, it will increase the cost and again that would be too much for the PAF. The most the JF-17 will be able to get, by my analysis is maybe a new engine and maybe again maybe a better radar, and thats it. No stealth features, no pesa radar, and nothing else.
4) Does anyone even have any idea how much time and money goes into even changing one nut on a jet. Changing anything on a jet, you have to change the whole structure, every support plate on the structure, electronics, components etc etc. The cost of all the upgrades that some people are talking about here is nothing but huge. It would cost the PAF billions of dollars. It would be just wise to get a new jet for that much money. The JF-17 will stay the way it is for sometime, until the PAF get more resources or is not able to get hold of anything else. I work in procurement so please dont argue about the cost lol its my everyday job
Feel free to disagree.

No we dont have any ideas, all ideas are drawn and implemented in India. You see india is the home of aeronautical engineering and everyone else has no ideas or technology.

Quick few questions my friend.

1)In 1965 India had superior numbers and superior technology, yet PAF outclassed IAF why do you think that is?

2)Fanboys here are dreamers at time and as you said all it is a dream, so why do india feel concerned trying to stop engine supplies etc?

3) You say the upgrades will cost money, dont you think paf already knows that and has planned future budget to resolve that situation?

I am here to tell my fellow pakistani members here as well if they think jf17 is an answer to counter mki then they have beed either smoking drugs or getting drunk.

JF17 is designed to replace our old ageing fleet of aircraft and absorb many upgrades along the way, however it has not been designed to counter the mki.

But to say Thunder cannot counter mki in large numbers in defensive role is a absolutely crazy. MKI are not unbeatable they can be beaten by thunders in numbers in defensive role with some help of awacs.
Thunder can easily counter other iaf planes such m2k and bisons and mig27 that itself is a big plus for paf.

Thunder is designed to defend pakistani airspace and not for strikes against the enemy, for that thunder variants will evolve.

 

[Young-khan]

Listen I am not saying China will start to give orders to Pakistan, but am saying that Pakistan will be in China's pocket at that point.
Just because its in the pocket of china doesn't mean China will Take advantage, But its still in China's Pocket.
That's all i said.

Well Pakistan is not and will not be in anybodys pocket, however chinese pocket is like our own pocket so that cant be that bad.

The relationship with china is open and transparrent without any hidden conditions and motives, same cannot be said for usa.

Pakistan has always stood in solidarity with china, public more then goverment at times. We support one china policy and always have, we stand in solodarity with chinese claims to its land occupied by india.

Now talking about indian relationship, once a great friend of russia it has forgotten about the hand that fed it and has decided to jump in to bed with usa. We pakistanis have not done that to friend who has always supported our cause.

 

[Young-khan]

Whats stopping the US from getting China's flash new jet J-xx , from Pakistan the same way PAk gave f-16 to China.

Have you any evidence to back that up or is this another indian accussation that lacks any credibility?.

China didnt need any f16 from pak, they have various other sources that they can aquire technology from. Chinese have secretly been working on various projects and as they become succesful typical indians and usa thinks they have stolen technology or have been helped in aquiring technolgy by pak etc.

Once upon a time people of the west use to downplay and shun japanese, they didint think they had their own technological base, yet now you look at it a japan is a technology leader.

So son dont always beleive what you read and see.

 

[desiman]

No we dont have any ideas, all ideas are drawn and implemented in India. You see india is the home of aeronautical engineering and everyone else has no ideas or technology.

Quick few questions my friend.

1)In 1965 India had superior numbers and superior technology, yet PAF outclassed IAF why do you think that is?

2)Fanboys here are dreamers at time and as you said all it is a dream, so why do india feel concerned trying to stop engine supplies etc?

3) You say the upgrades will cost money, dont you think paf already knows that and has planned future budget to resolve that situation?

I am here to tell my fellow pakistani members here as well if they think jf17 is an answer to counter mki then they have beed either smoking drugs or getting drunk.

JF17 is designed to replace our old ageing fleet of aircraft and absorb many upgrades along the way, however it has not been designed to counter the mki.

But to say Thunder cannot counter mki in large numbers in defensive role is a absolutely crazy. MKI are not unbeatable they can be beaten by thunders in numbers in defensive role with some help of awacs.
Thunder can easily counter other iaf planes such m2k and bisons and mig27 that itself is a big plus for paf.

Thunder is designed to defend pakistani airspace and not for strikes against the enemy, for that thunder variants will evolve.

Brother your getting me all wrong, where in my post did i mention that India is better than pakistan ? I am not criticizing Pakistan or supporting India, my main criticism is against the people who are just blindly saying things about the JF-17 and ruining its reputation. If you want to see what i mean just look at the MKI vs JF-17 forum. I am saying what you are saying also, but i think you read me in the wrong way.
1)1965 - the debate is endless, paf says something, IAF says something, all we can say it that the PAF gave the IAF a good fight but you have to consider who won the war and the outcomes which should not be discussed on this thread bcz it will just spark more emotions.
2)I would not call Fanboys dreamers, even dreamer in aeronautics dream something logical ( I know as me being one ), but fanboys tend to glorify everything. Just like how people are talking about the JF-17.Its a good jet, cost effective and easy to maintain, but not a deterrent to the IAF in any way.
3)The PAF is already very strained in its budgets, and from what i know from the people inside pakistan, there are only few upgrades planned as of yet, ,nothing is confirmed. The future of the PAF totally depends on the war on terror, future funding from the USA and the condition of the pakistani economy. With the PAK army eating away on anything it can get it hands on, the PAF will continue to struggle to get what it wants. As of now not even one update or a future block as been confirmed and nothing should come up for atleast 2 years more. This is what i have heard and come to know from my sources which are more than decent
4)The M2K, bisons and MIG 27 was war proven and very lethal jets. the weakest in this link, the bison, is BVR equipped and has been upgraded heavily by the IAF, its maneuverbility and speed have always been appreciated by the IAF. Yes the JF-17 will be a tough fight for all these jets but again not easily by any means. Specially the M2K which is one of the most trusted jets of the IAF and is very formidable in its current form. can you tell me why you think the JF-17 will be able to beat them so easily as you think ?
5)The MKI are for sure not unbeatable but it would take atleast 3 -4 JF-17's to shoot down an MKI, which is the fact no matter what people think or say. In its current form the JF-17 can not even get close to the MKI let alone shoot it down. 3-4 JF-17 in tight formation and in favorable conditions with awacs support have a much better chance but again whats to say that there will only be 1 MKI alone. LOL 9 out of 10 times the MKI will be either with another 2-3 MKI's or with a mig29's or 27's or Mirages. Again its not unbeatable but the chances are very less.

you got that point right is that the JF-17 will be an effective interceptor not a strike aircraft. The PAF has the F-16's for that. Feel free to disagree again bro.

 

[desiman]

Well Pakistan is not and will not be in anybodys pocket, however chinese pocket is like our own pocket so that cant be that bad.

The relationship with china is open and transparrent without any hidden conditions and motives, same cannot be said for usa.

Pakistan has always stood in solidarity with china, public more then goverment at times. We support one china policy and always have, we stand in solodarity with chinese claims to its land occupied by india.

Now talking about indian relationship, once a great friend of russia it has forgotten about the hand that fed it and has decided to jump in to bed with usa. We pakistanis have not done that to friend who has always supported our cause.

Brother you have no idea how good Indian and Russian relationships are. Just for example if you remember the Russian's sent their own nuclear sub to protect India against USA during 71. I dont see China supporting Pakistan in 71, or kargil lol India has many solid pacts with Russia which are worth atleast 10 times pakistan's whole military budget lol Just because the world is open to India now and we can buy anything from anyone does not mean that our relationship is getting weaker with the Russians. We still have over 20 projects running with them, few of them are the PAKFA, Aircraft carriers, Various tanks, ships and radars projects. The list is almost endless. The only reason China supports pakistan is to counter India and nothing else. If China was such a good friends of your why dont you have the latest Chinese equipment ? Where on the other hand India operates all of Russia's best equipment and takes part in the latest Russian research. Please dont talk about something you have no idea about, you can ask any fellow Russian brother on this Forum about the relationship that Indian's share with them. The relationship is very very strong militarily and culturally.

 

[DemonHunter]

Screw talking about gens' talk about skill.
Pakistan Air Force's pilots are way more skilled than IAF pilots.
its a FACT.

Thanxs buddy for a good laughter session I had while reading ur comment PAF is no. 1 Air force in the world
IAF, USAF, russian and Israeli are all lil rookies

But can u gimmie one proof or source which back ur claim of Paf being better than IAF and ur Pilots being more trained n skilled than ours