JF-17's ECM & Design Limitations

[Paksanity]

Very little of anything you said has any basis in reality. The notion that your mig-21 bis is at all capable of handling f-15s is not only foolish to utter out loud but is laughable. The idea that the IAF in any way has any type of edge over the PLAAF is hysterical (you fail to even realize that half ur fleet is unservicable by your own air chiefs admission). Superior to PAF, yes, to the PLAAF please be serious. Additionally i suggest u look at the link regarding the MKIs radar and stop living in a dream world. Your fan boy dreams blind you to reality. And now im done with you.

These guys are just amazing aren't they? They would have you believe Mig-21 trumps F-15 but JF-17 stands no chance against MiG-29. IAF will have 3 times larger PLAAF for breakfast but 1.5 times smaller PAF has no hope. US AWACS will not survive but India's will against China. PAF AWACS won't survive either and they will shoot them while staying inside India. However their AWACS are super magical and nothing can touch them. When PLAAF caries R-77 it's no more than a firework. Hang it under an IAF Mig-21 and God save USAF! Give it up dude. You can't defeat vedic powers! You just can't.

 

[randomradio]

Additionally i suggest u look at the link regarding the MKIs radar and stop living in a dream world.

https://defencerussia.wordpress.com...t-to-upgrade-radar-control-system-of-su-30sm/
“V.Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design” expects to receive a military technical requirement for the modernization of the “Bars-R” radar control system installed in the Su-30SM fighters from the Russian Air Forces, General Director of the enterprise Yuri Beliy said.

“The “Bars-R” radar control system of the Su-30SM aircraft is a further development of the “Bars” RCS of the Su-30MKI aircraft developed on the order of the Indian Air Forces. In accordance with the military technical requirement, issued by the Russian Air Forces, the system has been upgraded to get improved performance. The RCS modernization potential is not limited to that, in the near future we are waiting for the new military technical requirement from the Russian Air Forces concerning further development”, – said Beliy.

He noted that negotiations on modernization of the RCS “Bars” with India had been conducted for a long time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://igorrgroup.blogspot.in/2009/08/maks-2009-niip-celebration.html
However, don’t understate 'Bars's upgrading capability! 'Bars's chief designer Tamerlan Bekirbayev says the capability for simultaneously detecting, tracking and engaging several aerial targets with one ground target already exists on the serial 'Bars' radars. During next step of upgrading :

- The air detection range will be more, than doubled!
- The number of tracked and egaged targets will be increased 1.5-2 times (from current 20 & 8 figures).
- The mapping performance in terms of target detection range and resolution will be doubled!
- The number of tracked ground targets will be doubled too.
- Some new operation modes will be added, particularly Meteo and Active Countermeasures modes.
- Interaction with other avionic systems (ECM, EO targeting) will be expanded.
- The range of weapon use will be extended.
- Formation mission capabilities will be enhanced.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is from 2009. The entire Bars to Irbis development path is part of the Su-30MKI project. So Bars capabilities have been roughly doubled since a long time now and will be further enhanced. The oldest jets will also get the Bars AESA, maybe a new AESA.

It is JH7B and not JH7---.

An old american saying---" the enemy gets to vote as well ".

The version doesn't really matter. It is just a big, obsolete strike aircraft. They can give it some improvements in avionics, maybe a new engine, but the airframe limitations cannot be changed. It cannot enter A2/AD areas even with improvements, no different from the SH not being able to do the same even after it is upgraded to its most advanced avatar for the IAF.

The next decade belongs to stealth aircraft.

 

[Bratva]

So you did not understand my point. The point is it doesn't matter what type of aircraft it is, the EL/L 8222 will easily jam any mechanical scan radar. This has nothing to do with the Mig-21.

If the Mig-21 could jam the F-15 in air exercises, then the MKI will have no problems dealing with the old obsolete radar of the JF-17 because it has better equipment. And even the 8222 is obsolete.

Our Air Chief Marshal has this to say:
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/fighter-aircrafts-make-in-india-iaf/


Just because the Mig-21s can jam a F-15's radar doesn't mean it has suddenly become an equivalent in other factors. It is still an 'absolutely obsolete' aircraft. That's just you dabbing in useless strawman arguments.



It's a bureaucratic hurdle for peacetime spares imports. It has nothing to do with the actual technological prowess of the aircraft. Once those spares are manufactured in India, things will go back to normal.

IAF also carries war reserves that will push availability to well over 80% when necessary. But that comes at extra cost that's unnecessary during peacetime.



Yes, we have superior technology compared to the PLAAF. This is taken for granted everywhere. You are just new to it.

As of today we have over 200 ESA equipped fighter aircraft with internal EW suites and have been using advanced networking concepts for over 15 years. PLAAF is just beginning to do that. Once the Rafale starts coming in, the advantage will only increase.

IAF is the only air force in the world today that trains with the widest assortment of weapons and weapons systems. It started due to the import culture, but it is very effective. It is extremely difficult to deal with an air force that has brought in completely different types of aircraft to an exercise, all carrying different weapons. MKIs with the R-73, Jaguars with ASRAAM, LCA with Python-V, Mirage-2000 with MICA-IR, each of these need to be dealt with differently during a fight.

The air force is the only service wing that India has an advantage over China. And we are planning on maintaining that advantage.



Those are obsolete specs. Novices are not expected to know such things without ever having followed the program. If you notice the specs carefully, the peak power in the specs is 5KW, 4.5KW to be exact, which means the website specs are not accurate. But Bars can be upgraded up to 20KW of peak power, like the Irbis-E. There is also a 7KW version.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html


Posting the specs for the lowest and oldest configuration is obviously what's misleading you.

Are you one of the observers who has tracked the program since its inception? You obviously are not. Hence why you have a poor understanding of Russian radar technologies.



Yes, hide in your bubble instead of learning.



The JH-7s have very low TWR. So you cannot use them without having achieved air superiority first. The Super Hornet is a far better aircraft.

If you are hoping PAF would get their hands on the export version, FBC-1, then it's too late. The aircraft is way too obsolete if you want to buy it now. By the time you buy it, get it in decent numbers and start training on it, IAF would already have inducted 100+ Rafales and would have started induction of the FGFA.

In all your gibberish, incoherent inferiority complex rants and retard observations. Your brain skipped one important aspect. Nothing trumps American DRFM based AIDEWS electronic warfare suite. Guess what who got it ? Yeah. Pakistan. Can you proof Israeli EW trumps ALQ DRFM based EW ? No You cant

In your infinite wisdom, you forgot that Pakistan Tested the AIDEWS against JF-17 radar. Whatever the weaknesses they must have found, they evovled the radar in to Version 2 with stronger ECCM capability along with internal Indra Spanish EW suite (elements of Indra EW are being used in F-18 i.e. RWR) and K-600 EW Pod. Then JF-17 was tested intensively in this range.

Havelsan exports 1st electronic warfare test & training range to Pakistan

Pakistan’s Electronic Warfare Test and Training Range (EWTTR)

EWTTR features are :

• 
  
  
  • Various fully instrumented and integrated actual weapons systems,
  • Various threat emitter simulators,
  • Entirely modular structures,
  • All weapon systems in the EWTTR offer the following in real-time : Data Collection, Data Recording, Visualization in 3D environment, Artillery and Missile Simulation,
  • Various post-flight evaluation reports,
  • Continuous development capability based on the needs and requirements.

So A blind neutral analyst can see what you cant see. We can mimic and simulate your EW attack behaviors. We can train against them easily. Pakistan has counter measures in place. But since you are on Vedic koolaid, such material will skip your mind obviously.

While you are at it, Go readup on the dual guidance of SD-10 A and then come tell us if it is still a useless missile because It has Active/Passive Guidance


Next time try harder so that you dont get banned once again.

 

[randomradio]

In all your gibberish, incoherent inferiority complex rants and retard observations. Your brain skipped one important aspect. Nothing trumps American DRFM based AIDEWS electronic warfare suite. Guess what who got it ? Yeah. Pakistan. Can you proof Israeli EW trumps ALQ DRFM based EW ? No You cant

The Israelis want their own EW suite on the F-35 because they think the F-35's is obsolete. Hence proved.

Among the US and EU, the French have the best EW tech, that's followed by the Italians and then the British.

The US is quite backward when it comes to aircraft equipped EW. In fact, the French are at least 15 years ahead. The French had surpassed the Growler before it was even introduced. And the EW suite on the F-35 was built by the British, not the Americans.

So if the Israelis think the F-35 is obsolete, what's so special about all the previous gen export grade tech that PAF operates? At the same time, India is constantly developing new EW tech with the Israelis at a very fast pace. And we have access to the best French tech also.

In your infinite wisdom, you forgot that Pakistan Tested the AIDEWS against JF-17 radar. Whatever the weaknesses they must have found, they evovled the radar in to Version 2 with stronger ECCM capability along with internal Indra Spanish EW suite (elements of Indra EW are being used in F-18 i.e. RWR) and K-600 EW Pod. Then JF-17 was tested intensively in this range.

The EL/L 8222 was a more advanced DRFM and that was inducted back in the early 2000s. And I'm calling even that obsolete. So forget about AIDEWS. The AIDEWS is just an export EW suite anyway. It has very poor localization capabilities, its capability dates back to the 80s if you compare them to the French. Even the decade old French ICMS Mk4 is like a generation ahead in comparison.

While you are at it, Go readup on the dual guidance of SD-10 A and then come tell us if it is still a useless missile because It has Active/Passive Guidance

Yes, it is obsolete. At least it is obsolete compared to what's coming up. If you don't replace the seeker with AESA, then it is pointless to bring to the fight, already operational EW suite within the IAF can completely destroy the effectiveness of the MS seeker, let alone the stuff that's to be inducted over the next 3 years.

And from everything I have read so far on the Chinese, they only export low grade technologies that they themselves don't induct. They are in fact worse than the Soviet Union when it comes to exporting monkey models. At least the Soviets used to induct a more advanced model of what they exported, the Chinese don't even bother doing that.

Next time try harder so that you dont get banned once again.

Never been banned. Thanks. Hell, I joined less than a month ago, I thought that was obvious.

 

[Viper0011.]

The Israelis want their own EW suite on the F-35 because they think the F-35's is obsolete. Hence proved.

Among the US and EU, the French have the best EW tech, that's followed by the Italians and then the British.

The US is quite backward when it comes to aircraft equipped EW. .

WOW....I am confused reading your post. Either you have no clue about what you are talking about, or you are just doing your Indian thing on here, just fake trolling.

1) Only a crazy fool can think that a small yet very capable country (Israel) can compete against the US's most powerful and advance military industrial institutions and can come out on top!!!! If you don't know the real deal, you should first "LEARN" like researching on your own, before you start writing bullshiit like the post above.

2) From Arrow to Iron Dome, to F-16's avionics, to LAVI, all the tech was provided by the US directly as an ally, or the Israelis got it "somehow" if you know what I mean. So now that they've acquired, assembled and built their versions of the US tech (in SOME areas), it makes perfect sense for them to use their own electronics where they can. Albeit, these are STILL American systems with "Israeli flavor" in them!!!!

3) F-35 is OBSOLETE? Really? WOW!!! Then why is Israel buying them? Here's what you are doing. To make your stupid points towards your bigotry towards Pakistan using American weapons, you brought in Israel for no fukking reason. How about you drop the act, remove Israel from your biased post as Israel has NOTHING to do with you screwed up imagination, and debate with me on American systems one by one. Let me "TEACH YOU" how superior American systems are.

4) We specialize in two things: 1: In Warfare and related Tech 2: In Building and Sustaining Economies ( by the way, you owe a thank you to Uncle Sam for ALL the jobs they've provided to India and helped her grow her economy to where you can write these fake "superior Indian being" posts today. Never forget who the real daddy is

5) The US is backward in "aircraft equipment" and YET, the Boeing Posedion, the Apaches and Missiles, Radars and many other systems, including possible US jet manufacturing inside India for the IAF is being negotiated between India and US every week? BOY, either your head's really fukked up, or that Whiskey you drank before writing this post, was too raw and domestically made. I know how Indian raw liquor hits you for like an hour .

6) Here's the reality. Your planners are SO concerned with the F-16 block 52 weapons package that Pakistan has, that even like 20 of them required India to start looking for Rafale!!!! Oh and remember, where did the French, the Swedes and the Italians got their recent tech from.......every serious system has a good old "Made in USA" stamp in it!! You could modify things and increase / decrease ranges, come up with variants due to your own R&D ( Kaveri, LCA is another example here). But it doesn't mean you are now above the original supplier.

 

[his5850]

“V.Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design” expects to receive a military technical requirement for the modernization of the “Bars-R” radar control system installed in the Su-30SM fighters from the Russian Air Forces, General Director of the enterprise Yuri Beliy said.

“The “Bars-R” radar control system of the Su-30SM aircraft is a further development of the “Bars” RCS of the Su-30MKI aircraft developed on the order of the Indian Air Forces. In accordance with the military technical requirement, issued by the Russian Air Forces, the system has been upgraded to get improved performance. The RCS modernization potential is not limited to that, in the near future we are waiting for the new military technical requirement from the Russian Air Forces concerning further development”, – said Beliy.

He noted that negotiations on modernization of the RCS “Bars” with India had been conducted for a long time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

However, don’t understate 'Bars's upgrading capability! 'Bars's chief designer Tamerlan Bekirbayev says the capability for simultaneously detecting, tracking and engaging several aerial targets with one ground target already exists on the serial 'Bars' radars. During next step of upgrading :

- The air detection range will be more, than doubled!
- The number of tracked and egaged targets will be increased 1.5-2 times (from current 20 & 8 figures).
- The mapping performance in terms of target detection range and resolution will be doubled!
- The number of tracked ground targets will be doubled too.
- Some new operation modes will be added, particularly Meteo and Active Countermeasures modes.
- Interaction with other avionic systems (ECM, EO targeting) will be expanded.
- The range of weapon use will be extended.
- Formation mission capabilities will be enhanced.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is from 2009. The entire Bars to Irbis development path is part of the Su-30MKI project. So Bars capabilities have been roughly doubled since a long time now and will be further enhanced. The oldest jets will also get the Bars AESA, maybe a new AESA.


The version doesn't really matter. It is just a big, obsolete strike aircraft. They can give it some improvements in avionics, maybe a new engine, but the airframe limitations cannot be changed. It cannot enter A2/AD areas even with improvements, no different from the SH not being able to do the same even after it is upgraded to its most advanced avatar for the IAF.

The next decade belongs to stealth aircraft.

Man you have no idea what are u talking about if i can see a Target 5 miles away from a scope of the gun can i kill it no Bars R also to see very small target from long range max range is 400KM is plane come in radar detection and get detected that isn't how it work 2nd RCS of SU-30 MKi is 10m2 and RCS of a F-16 Block 52 is 1.2m2 detection range for 5m2 radar cross section of block 52 is 107 and MKI is 190 even with it's N011M powerful radar MKI can detect F-16 at 135KM and F-16 block 52 with AN/APG-68 V9 can detect SU-30MKI at 140km where is you advantage

 

[randomradio]

WOW....I am confused reading your post. Either you have no clue about what you are talking about, or you are just doing your Indian thing on here, just fake trolling.

1) Only a crazy fool can think that a small yet very capable country (Israel) can compete against the US's most powerful and advance military industrial institutions and can come out on top!!!! If you don't know the real deal, you should first "LEARN" like researching on your own, before you start writing bullshiit like the post above.

The development of EW in other countries was led due to priority. The US did not develop EW tech as much because they relied on passive capabilities of stealth which is more expensive. The French and Israelis otoh decided to develop EW capabilities instead to augment stealth. The Russians are doing both.

2) From Arrow to Iron Dome, to F-16's avionics, to LAVI, all the tech was provided by the US directly as an ally, or the Israelis got it "somehow" if you know what I mean. So now that they've acquired, assembled and built their versions of the US tech (in SOME areas), it makes perfect sense for them to use their own electronics where they can. Albeit, these are STILL American systems with "Israeli flavor" in them!!!!

The Israelis are self-sufficient in EW. They don't rely on the US for that. Why will they when they have better EW tech? That's why they want their own EW on the F-35.

http://aviationweek.com/awin/israel-us-agree-450-million-f-35-ew-work

3) F-35 is OBSOLETE? Really? WOW!!! Then why is Israel buying them? Here's what you are doing. To make your stupid points towards your bigotry towards Pakistan using American weapons, you brought in Israel for no fukking reason. How about you drop the act, remove Israel from your biased post as Israel has NOTHING to do with you screwed up imagination, and debate with me on American systems one by one. Let me "TEACH YOU" how superior American systems are.

The Israelis don't want the F-35. They think it is obsolete. They want the F-15 instead. But since the aircraft is coming through US military aid, the Israelis don't have much of a choice in the matter. The aircraft is coming for free, so no choice.

The Israelis are more interested in developing and deploying a new stealth aircraft that will soon be developed in India, not the AMCA but a different aircraft. This new jet is being made for very long range and high performance combat, unlike the F-35.

Basically they want the F-15 Silent Eagle or even the less developed Saudi version from the US through the aid package and want to choose India for their fifth generation fighter requirement.

http://warisboring.com/articles/israel-prefers-f-15-silent-eagles-to-more-f-35s/comment-page-2/

But instead of buying additional F-35s, Israel is opting to boost its fleet of F-15s. Part of the reason for that might be because Tel Aviv has concerns about the F-35’s performance. In 2014,Israeli strategic affairs minister Yuval Steinitz cited misgivings about the F-35’s range, payload and maneuverability, which might not meet Tel Aviv’s needs.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-reconsidering-purchase-of-f_35-fighters.html

A welcome decision made back in 2008 to purchase U.S.-made Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) jets no longer appears very attractive in 2016 – and Israel is considering backtracking on it.

So even if the Israelis may not cancel the F-35 deal completely, the numbers will be drastically reduced. Instead they will most likely opt for a new stealth aircraft being designed for both the IAF and other export customers after 2020 by the private industry in India. There might even be a license production agreement which the Israelis want. This new aircraft can replace all their F-16s.

5) The US is backward in "aircraft equipment" and YET, the Boeing Posedion, the Apaches and Missiles, Radars and many other systems, including possible US jet manufacturing inside India for the IAF is being negotiated between India and US every week? BOY, either your head's really fukked up, or that Whiskey you drank before writing this post, was too raw and domestically made. I know how Indian raw liquor hits you for like an hour .

I said the US is backward in EW. So what's with this line of argument?

Man you have no idea what are u talking about if i can see a Target 5 miles away from a scope of the gun can i kill it no Bars R also to see very small target from long range max range is 400KM is plane come in radar detection and get detected that isn't how it work 2nd RCS of SU-30 MKi is 10m2 and RCS of a F-16 Block 52 is 1.2m2 detection range for 5m2 radar cross section of block 52 is 107 and MKI is 190 even with it's N011M powerful radar MKI can detect F-16 at 135KM and F-16 block 52 with AN/APG-68 V9 can detect SU-30MKI at 140km where is you advantage

The new Bars can detect a F-16 from more than 250Km away. The next Bars upgrade will enable detection of the F-16 from 400+ Km away. During Garud exercises, a French pilot pointed out that the MKI could detect the Mirage-2000 from more than 200Km away.

What you are saying is while all other aircraft can get radar upgrades, only MKI cannot.

The Bars specifications that are going around on the internet are from before 2000.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Su30 radar range is overly estimated and glorified without any real facts

 

[randomradio]

Su30 radar range is overly estimated and glorified without any real facts

Really? Then what about this?

http://www.niip.ru/eng/index.php?op...:-q-q-35&catid=8:2011-07-06-06-33-26&Itemid=8

The Irbis is only an upgraded Bars. Like Hornet and Super Hornet.

 

[his5850]

Really? Then what about this?

The Irbis is only an upgraded Bars. Like Hornet and Super HornetThe new Bars can detect a F-16 from more than 250Km away. The next Bars upgrade will enable detection of the F-16 from 400+ Km away. During Garud exercises, a French pilot pointed out that the MKI could detect the Mirage-2000 from more than 200Km away

Source:
.

you talking about future plans when su-30 will have new radar JF-17 will have AESA radar when you haven even better then old we also do the same and you no idea how radar work how detection of the plane happens you are making up stuff out of thin air and MKI could detect the Mirage-2000 from more than 200Km away and can detect F-16 from 250KM just stop making up stuff moron

 

[randomradio]

you talking about future plans when su-30 will have new radar JF-17 will have AESA radar when you haven even better then old we also do the same and you no idea how radar work how detection of the plane happens you are making up stuff out of thin air and MKI could detect the Mirage-2000 from more than 200Km away and can detect F-16 from 250KM just stop making up stuff moron

This has nothing to do with AESA upgrade. That's for next decade and is part of the MLU program. I'm talking about already implemented upgrades that is part of MKI development.

Just like how the JF-17 has block upgrades, the MKI also has block upgrades. There are different versions like Mk1, Mk2 etc. And all MKIs are systematically upgraded to new versions.

There is a systematic upgrade to the back end of the Bars radar also. The HAL missions computers made for Bars were specially imported by Russia for their upgraded Bars on the Su-30SM. This upgraded Bars has a 7KW TWT, which roughly doubles range. The same upgrade has been done to Indian MKIs.

Doubling and tripling the capability of Bars is done through minor upgrades. The ultimate Bars version for PESA antennas will be the Irbis-E. Eventually a lot of MKIs will be upgraded to Irbis-E levels before they are upgraded with AESAs.

The first phase of Bars upgrade has been done and most of the MKIs will get this upgrade. The next phase will see the implementation of the Irbis-E on the Bars. This is separate from the AESA program.

 

[randomradio]

@randomradio the article you have quoted regarding Israel not interested in F35 is from 2008. And why would they dump a NATO quality aircraft to pursue a joint venture with India? Are you saying the Indians have more influence over Israel than the Americans?

Nope. The US has more influence. But the Israelis want more F-15s. It's not like they are abandoning the US. They just want more F-15s over the F-35s, but they are buying the F-35s anyway even if the numbers are lesser.

The Indian aircraft that the Israelis are interested in is an extremely good F-16 replacement. It is lighter than the F-16, but has higher range, payload etc. It has all the qualities the F-35 has and all the qualities the F-35 lacks.

This new aircraft is meant to be as cheap as possible and easily customized. This is what the Israelis want, a highly customizable aircraft. NATO quality is just a standard. If the new aircraft offers F-35 level stealth, high TWR, high range, bigger A2A load, supercruise etc, it becomes an obvious choice.

Btw, the articles I posted aren't from 2008, they are from 2015 and 2016.
http://warisboring.com/articles/israel-prefers-f-15-silent-eagles-to-more-f-35s/comment-page-2/

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-reconsidering-purchase-of-f_35-fighters.html

 

[Bratva]

Who says we are going to use that radar?

Firstly the radar is not 2032, that's a misconception. The Tejas Mk1 has an Indian made MS radar. And the numbers for this variant is capped at 20. They will be used for testing and training in South India. From Mk1A onwards, the radar will be the Israeli EL/M 2052 AESA.

Jaguars will be equipped with the EL/M 2052 too.

The only aircraft which will continue to use older mechanical radars will be the upgraded Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 after 2020. And out of those it is possible that even the M-2000 will get AESA.



So, it's not the JF-17 detecting the MKI, but the AWACS. So the JF-17 won't detect the MKI.

And in a USAF vs PLAAF scenario, the USAF AWACS are not expected to survive. What's so special about PAF that its AWACS will survive? Especially when it is taken for granted that the IAF has a technologically superior air force compared to the PLAAF and has a far superior numbers advantage over the PAF compared to PLAAF's disadvantage in numbers over USAF and JASDF.



The R-77 family of missiles have far surpassed even the Aim-120D. Just like how there are different variants of the Su-27, there are also different variants of the R-77. But the most advanced version is yet to enter service, should be this year. This new version has a 200+Km range and has a GaN AESA seeker.

According to USAF, according to everybody else, including civilians who do military funded simulations.

Survivability of the AWACS is heavily dependent on the escort fighters around it and of course the old fashioned running away. You will be surprised how vulnerable they are.

That's the reason why FGFA will be carrying multiple radars all along its fuselage and wings for 360 degree coverage. They will replace the AWACS in anti-access areas.



The advantages the IAF has had over the last 15 years, the PLAAF is only achieving now. The future is questionable, but it doesn't change the fact that the IAF is better than the PLAAF today, so there is no question of PAF being an effective force against the IAF with their older aircraft.

You should see an interview of two PAF retired ranking officers, one of them was AM Shaheed Latif, he pointed out the conventional disparity between IAF and PAF is too high.



They are not survivable. PAF has no strategic dept. So there's no running away. MKIs can shoot down AWACS without having to cross borders.

The IAF has deployed new hypersonic air to air missiles for that purpose.



These figures for the MKI's radar are 20 years old. This was the first version that was inducted in 2000. Today's figure for a Mig-29 type fighter is well above 250Km.

The Russians have already upgraded the Bars. Now they are offering an Irbis upgrade for the versions that are yet to be built. That's separate from the AESA upgrade. The RuAF Su-30SMs have been operational with the newer Bars versions for years now.



What? There's plenty of evidence. The K-77M has dual pulse motors and a GaN AESA seeker. The Aim-120D has a MS seeker with a regular rocket motor. Dual pulse means the K-77M can boost its speed to its highest level before impact, the Aim-120D can't. Basically, the Aim-120D is also obsolete as far as the K-77M is concerned.

A prototype GaN seeker

There's also a new RAMJET version.

If the Chinese say their latest Flankers are better than the Su-35, would you believe them? The SD-10A is an old missile.



The range indicates how much more capable the missile has become using the same airframe. It's more than double that of the old RVV-AE.



Grifo S7, RC400, APG-68 etc are all obsolete radars.

The Mig-21 Bison uses the same jammer the Israelis use on all of their F-15s.

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/7/27537.pdf


The Jaguar and Eastern fighters reference points to India.

The JF-17 is way too obsolete for a shooting war against the IAF. It doesn't matter what type of support it has.

The Israelis want their own EW suite on the F-35 because they think the F-35's is obsolete. Hence proved.

Among the US and EU, the French have the best EW tech, that's followed by the Italians and then the British.

The US is quite backward when it comes to aircraft equipped EW. In fact, the French are at least 15 years ahead. The French had surpassed the Growler before it was even introduced. And the EW suite on the F-35 was built by the British, not the Americans.

So if the Israelis think the F-35 is obsolete, what's so special about all the previous gen export grade tech that PAF operates? At the same time, India is constantly developing new EW tech with the Israelis at a very fast pace. And we have access to the best French tech also.



The EL/L 8222 was a more advanced DRFM and that was inducted back in the early 2000s. And I'm calling even that obsolete. So forget about AIDEWS. The AIDEWS is just an export EW suite anyway. It has very poor localization capabilities, its capability dates back to the 80s if you compare them to the French. Even the decade old French ICMS Mk4 is like a generation ahead in comparison.



Yes, it is obsolete. At least it is obsolete compared to what's coming up. If you don't replace the seeker with AESA, then it is pointless to bring to the fight, already operational EW suite within the IAF can completely destroy the effectiveness of the MS seeker, let alone the stuff that's to be inducted over the next 3 years.

And from everything I have read so far on the Chinese, they only export low grade technologies that they themselves don't induct. They are in fact worse than the Soviet Union when it comes to exporting monkey models. At least the Soviets used to induct a more advanced model of what they exported, the Chinese don't even bother doing that.



Never been banned. Thanks. Hell, I joined less than a month ago, I thought that was obvious.

@gambit This gentelman think US EW hardware and ALQ-based series is obsolete because Israel rejected US EW in F-35. AIM-120D is inferior to R-77 because later has a AESA seeker. APG-69 Radars can be easily jammed by Israeli jammers. France has more robust EW program than Americans. Would you like to add anything to correct the misconceptions being spread around here

 

[randomradio]

AIM-120D is inferior to R-77 because later has a AESA seeker.

And a dual pulse motor. Don't be selective now.

 

[Bratva]

The Israelis want their own EW suite on the F-35 because they think the F-35's is obsolete. Hence proved.

Among the US and EU, the French have the best EW tech, that's followed by the Italians and then the British.

The US is quite backward when it comes to aircraft equipped EW. In fact, the French are at least 15 years ahead. The French had surpassed the Growler before it was even introduced. And the EW suite on the F-35 was built by the British, not the Americans.

So if the Israelis think the F-35 is obsolete, what's so special about all the previous gen export grade tech that PAF operates? At the same time, India is constantly developing new EW tech with the Israelis at a very fast pace. And we have access to the best French tech also.



The EL/L 8222 was a more advanced DRFM and that was inducted back in the early 2000s. And I'm calling even that obsolete. So forget about AIDEWS. The AIDEWS is just an export EW suite anyway. It has very poor localization capabilities, its capability dates back to the 80s if you compare them to the French. Even the decade old French ICMS Mk4 is like a generation ahead in comparison.



Yes, it is obsolete. At least it is obsolete compared to what's coming up. If you don't replace the seeker with AESA, then it is pointless to bring to the fight, already operational EW suite within the IAF can completely destroy the effectiveness of the MS seeker, let alone the stuff that's to be inducted over the next 3 years.

And from everything I have read so far on the Chinese, they only export low grade technologies that they themselves don't induct. They are in fact worse than the Soviet Union when it comes to exporting monkey models. At least the Soviets used to induct a more advanced model of what they exported, the Chinese don't even bother doing that.



Never been banned. Thanks. Hell, I joined less than a month ago, I thought that was obvious.

Keeping all the jibberish aside, Did you tested AIDEWS , SPECTRA and EL Jammer series ? How do you know AIDEWS has poor localization capabilities ? Your comparisons and conclusions are as lame as Donald trump rhetorics. And I was quite amused and surprised by your childish logic. Grow up dude.

Next time instead of blowing too much steam, Show us the studies, statistics field reports which had compared both E/L DRFM based jammer with AIDEWS and on the basis of this they have declared it superior. If not then We will make your that you dont pollute this thread with unsubstantiated conjectures and hearsay.

Do you know USA EW and Communication devices are encrypted and requires keys to run on ? Thats why Israel insist to put their own equipment so that they dont have to be dependent on Americans for encryption keys.



Let me put a sense into you Dual Guidance Active/Passive guidance means, If Active guidance is being jammed, The passive guidance can hom on to the jamming signal and guide itself onto enemy aircraft. So come what may If IAF awesome Indian Jammers are busy destroying active seeker of SD-10 A. Then Passive Guidance would have a field day because it would be easy peasy to lock onto the brightest source of radiation and increasing the kill probability to >95 percent.

You see this is what a logical brain would think. An immatuer fanboy brain would classify every-other thing as Obsolete and crap