JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[The SC]

can you plz comment abot JF-17 turn rate ....

You have to be more specific, and ask for the instantaneous or the sustained turn rate.. because they are different, for example the Rafale has a higher instantaneous turn rate than many high end fighters and has a sustained turn rate graded at 18%, which is much lower than the F-16..

 

[MastanKhan]

Latest Pic Of JF-17 In Pac Kamra...

Hi,

Can someone measure the length of the nose.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

Hi,

Can someone measure the length of the nose.

View attachment 319841

I think I know what you are trying to say and you are right.i also notice that .

 

[Saifullah]

I think I know what you are trying to say and you are right.i also notice that .

what is he trying to say ?
if you got that then explain that to me also

Hi,

Can someone measure the length of the nose.

View attachment 319841

Can you explain why do you wanna measure the length of the nose ?

 

[Thunder.Storm]

what is he trying to say ?
if you got that then explain that to me also


Can you explain why do you wanna measure the length of the nose ?

The jft pic with ifr has nose length increased.the increased length of the nose I think for cooling purposes for aesa radar if I'm not wrong

 

[MastanKhan]

The jft pic with ifr has nose length increased.the increased length of the nose I think for cooling purposes for aesa radar if I'm not wrong

Maybe it is an illusion

 

[Thunder.Storm]

A

Maybe it is an illusion

And I think pac/cac are experimenting some design features on bl 2 for bl3. Or they have plans to put some upgrades of bl3 in bl 2 in future.

 

[Tempest II]

Hi,

Can someone measure the length of the nose.

I think there is no change

 

[Arsalan]

It depends on your rules of engagement.

If your ROE demands visual IDs, your load will consist of short range missiles. From our air combat experience, 40 km is considered WVR. Forty km is about the best the human eye can discern sufficient details. Am not talking about a pilot who can see national markings on the wings at that distance, although supposedly some legendary pilots could. Forty km is the best distance the human eye-brain combination can discern moving objects against a background that warrants further investigation.

Within this distance, aircraft maneuverability is at its most unpredictable. If you are tasked to make out national markings on the wings, you are required to be much closer to your targets. You need a missile that is programmed to be able to maneuver as soon as it is safely away from you in case your targets turned out to be hostile and non-obedient.

You need to look at your bases as in relation to your borders. How quickly can you approach the borders also affect your decision for loadout. If the order is all non-ID aircrafts are to be considered hostile, you will have a mix of missiles, which is limited by your available hardpoints.

Simply put, there is no way anyone can give you, a Pakistani, definitive solutions regarding India. The most your air leadership can do is study how other air forces compensate for variables in their needs and adapt those methods for Pakistan's needs.

SIR! 40 Kilometer?
You saying that there were pilots who could even make the country markings on tail of a plane from 40 KILOMETERS? There surely is something wrong here.

 

[Tempest II]

SIR! 40 Kilometer?
You saying that there were pilots who could even make the country markings on tail of a plane from 40 KILOMETERS? There surely is something wrong here.

I remember reading quite a bit on this a few years back and in my mind I have a figure of 15km. Could be totally wrong. A lot depended on the aircraft size, angle, colour and atmospheric conditions.

Here is a little bit I have googled quickly: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005594

Howell [5] carried out a field study in which pilots attempted to detect another aircraft (DC-3) approaching on a collision course. Over various conditions, the average distance at which detection by the pilot occurred (“detection distance”) was from 5.5 to 8.7 km.

This allowed calculation of the range at which each of the aircraft could be detected under specified atmospheric conditions. For example, the DC-3, at 45° orientation, would be detected at 18 km with no atmospheric attenuation.

 

[gambit]

SIR! 40 Kilometer?
You saying that there were pilots who could even make the country markings on tail of a plane from 40 KILOMETERS? There surely is something wrong here.

Supposedly...And supposedly a legendary pilot with the initials CY can do that. If that is wrong, then like the song said: "I don't wanna be right."

Understand this...Having 20/20 vision is not extraordinary. A great deal of the general population is that. When I joined the USAF back in 1983, I was 20/10 right and 20/15 left. When I was taking flying lessons in high school, flying over the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor, I could make out ground details, including the submerged Arizona herself, that my instructor could not. When you are over cloud ceiling, the cold air up there can be unbelievable clear. Anyone would be surprised at how good his/her eyesight, assuming no glasses, could be.

It is not just about eyesight but about training. Yes, you can train your brain to automatically focus on certain tasks. Radar is there to help you steer to the general direction of your interest, but within visual, it is your eyesight and your brain that will either save you or fail you. A flicker of the wing and you can, with training, tell what he is going to do. With training in understanding how adversary aircrafts perform, you can, with good odds, anticipate your opponent's maneuver and get the inside of a turn, if your aircraft can give you that edge.

In the comedy Top Gun, the pilots were shown flying without their tinted visors. That is practically a sure way to kill your excellent eyesight, the good thing that got you into flight training in the first place. In ACM, a sudden flash of the sun into your unprotected eyes, or even a glint of sunlight off a canopy, can kill you. A simulated death, hopefully. But even while wearing tinted visor, with training, and note I use that word a lot, your above average eyesight-brain coordination can give many details of the other guy, the one you are trying 'shoot'. But you have to train and train and train and train and train and train and train and train -- for that skill.

Final edit...

When I transitioned from the visually confined F-111 capsule of a cockpit to the bubbleheaded cockpit of the F-16, it was like: Free at last, I am free at last...!!!

 

[Arsalan]

I remember reading quite a bit on this a few years back and in my mind I have a figure of 15km. Could be totally wrong. A lot depended on the aircraft size, angle, colour and atmospheric conditions.

Here is a little bit I have googled quickly: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005594

even 15 Km is HUGE!!

do not understand a human eye being able to see in distances stretching Kilometers without assistance so clearly that they can make out the markings on tail of a flying aircraft. I mean, i understand someone being able to figure out that there is that plane flying a few Km away but in such details, i am not so sure!

 

[HRK]

even 15 Km is HUGE!!

do not understand a human eye being able to see in distances stretching Kilometers without assistance so clearly that they can make out the markings on tail of a flying aircraft. I mean, i understand someone being able to figure out that there is that plane flying a few Km away but in such details, i am not so sure!

I am forgetting the name of Israeli Pilot (who apparently score most kill for them) is considered one such pilot ... who had the ability to spot the enemy aircraft at 40 KM try to search his video at youtube ....


==================

found him ...

NAME: Giora Epstein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giora_Epstein)

his Miraj-III

relevant part 19:53 where he claimed about his ability to spot fighters jet at a distance of 24 miles roughly equivalent to 38 KM ....

 

[araz]

what is he trying to say ?
if you got that then explain that to me also


Can you explain why do you wanna measure the length of the nose ?

Because it shows your lineage. On a serious note a lengthened nose might mean newer equipment/hint hint cooling equipment for AESA. GOT IT NOW!!
A

 

[Thorough Pro]

looking at panels in relation to canopy, it seems the nose is longer by at least half a panel length (about 12/15 inches)

Hi,

Can someone measure the length of the nose.

View attachment 319841

because it looks longer, look at the panel joints in relation to canopy

what is he trying to say ?
if you got that then explain that to me also


Can you explain why do you wanna measure the length of the nose ?

Read the very next sentence and you'll find your answer

SIR! 40 Kilometer?
You saying that there were pilots who could even make the country markings on tail of a plane from 40 KILOMETERS? There surely is something wrong here.

About 25/26 years ago I used to have Daisy Powerline .717 air pistol and I could repeatedly see the pallet going all the way up to about 90/100 feet with my bare eyes

Supposedly...And supposedly a legendary pilot with the initials CY can do that. If that is wrong, then like the song said: "I don't wanna be right."

Understand this...Having 20/20 vision is not extraordinary. A great deal of the general population is that. When I joined the USAF back in 1983, I was 20/10 right and 20/15 left. When I was taking flying lessons in high school, flying over the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor, I could make out ground details, including the submerged Arizona herself, that my instructor could not. When you are over cloud ceiling, the cold air up there can be unbelievable clear. Anyone would be surprised at how good his/her eyesight, assuming no glasses, could be.

It is not just about eyesight but about training. Yes, you can train your brain to automatically focus on certain tasks. Radar is there to help you steer to the general direction of your interest, but within visual, it is your eyesight and your brain that will either save you or fail you. A flicker of the wing and you can, with training, tell what he is going to do. With training in understanding how adversary aircrafts perform, you can, with good odds, anticipate your opponent's maneuver and get the inside of a turn, if your aircraft can give you that edge.

In the comedy Top Gun, the pilots were shown flying without their tinted visors. That is practically a sure way to kill your excellent eyesight, the good thing that got you into flight training in the first place. In ACM, a sudden flash of the sun into your unprotected eyes, or even a glint of sunlight off a canopy, can kill you. A simulated death, hopefully. But even while wearing tinted visor, with training, and note I use that word a lot, your above average eyesight-brain coordination can give many details of the other guy, the one you are trying 'shoot'. But you have to train and train and train and train and train and train and train and train -- for that skill.

Final edit...

When I transitioned from the visually confined F-111 capsule of a cockpit to the bubbleheaded cockpit of the F-16, it was like: Free at last, I am free at last...!!!

I think there is no change

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