JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[AsifIjaz]

So what was the outcome of such an adventure.. In terms of thrust or mtbo did they gain anything out of the chinese components??

 

[Windjammer]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Basel]

the only other option for JF-17 engine is WS-13E for B3 @Armchair

EJ-200 is also available, but its all about funds availability.

 

[Dreamer.]

1200 MTBO. 2400 hours shelf life but can be extended using deep overhauls and swapping new parts. We have plenty of experience in the latter ala MRF.

so ws-13's life is only about a quarter of rd-93? that's a huge difference! I am surprised that chinese who are good at reverse engineering stuff would do so badly this time.

 

[JohnWick]

RD-93 is enough and now it is smoke free also....

 

[air marshal]

http://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/1885

http://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/1886

 

[MastanKhan]

so ws-13's life is only about a quarter of rd-93? that's a huge difference! I am surprised that chinese who are good at reverse engineering stuff would do so badly this time.

Hi,

I really would be surprised if that was true---. With the modern machines that they have---number of metallurgists---better alloys---that does not sound right---.

 

[Shane]

Hi,

I really would be surprised if that was true---. With the modern machines that they have---number of metallurgists---better alloys---that does not sound right---.

And you are right to hold that opinion. The following picture is from Huitngs Chinese military aviation, in the back ground is the new and improved engine being worked on for FC31 named WS19 with serrated petals, a feature of stealth Aircraft:

There is no more information on CMF so searching around Chinese message boards have revealed some interesting information.

WS19 is rated at 10 tons @Dazzler and still, it may or may not have improved MTBO. The above picture has the following story going around, quoting from translation:

A group of young engine R&D elites took a group photo with the older generation of aero engine R&D elites. The back is a turbofan engine, which is the latest in China. The turbofan 19 engine is an engine tailored for our FC31 fighter.

The 歼31 fighter was originally used by the Russian RD93 engine, which is a special engine developed by Russia for our FC-1 fighter. However, it is a light fighter and its engine thrust is not high. In this way, China's stealth fighter 歼31 simply does not meet the original design requirements, so it is very urgent to replace the new aircraft engine.

The successful development of WS19 this time also shows that the 歼31 fighter will also begin mass production on the basis of the first two experimental fighters, because the most critical issues in engine have been solved.

XX End quote XX

Having 10,000Kg thrust to start with looks to be more of an appropriate reason for evaluating the WS19 as you have stated for WS13 earlier @sneakerspark . Since WS19 is designed specifically for FC-31 so it may just as easily fit JF17 as both are currently using RD93 or variants.

Another engine is in mind and is being evaluated right now just like the Aesa Radars. I have learnt that WS-13 has been designed in such a way that it fits FC-1 without any major modification in the air frame.

Most welcome. As @messiach has noted for so long, these were upgrades that there similar to what is now available on the RD-93MA. But I am guessing PAF didn't go with the MA for the Block 3, its got a new engine.

If not RD93 then it could very well be WS19 or at least it may be the one being evaluated. So @Arsalan and @pakistanipower , there is another engine in possible contention for BlockIII.

 

[Ultima Thule]

If not RD93 then it could very well be WS19 or at least it may be the one being evaluated. So @Arsalan and @pakistanipower , there is another engine in possible contention for BlockIII.

Might be but its still long way to go whereas WS-13E is almost completed, may next block after block-3 (BLOCK-IV) if PAC/PAF plan to introduce BOCK-IV will used that engine, but its almost certain Block-3 will use either RD-93MA or WS-13E @Shane

 

[Shane]

Might be but its still long way to go whereas WS-13E is almost completed, may next block after block-3 (BLOCK-IV) if PAC/PAF plan to introduce BOCK-IV will used that engine, but its almost certain Block-3 will use either RD-93MA or WS-13E @Shane

You may be right. It is mere speculation and guess work at this point. With PAC and CATIC rightly being tight lipped about works in progress, all we have is translation of Chinese website claims that may or may not be true but it puts things in an interesting perspective like @MastanKhan stated about the growing Chinese metallurgical expertise.

In another news item dating from mid 2017, WS19 may not be something that just popped up in 2019, we get some more intriguing insight into the Project S3-2 (may be WS19):

It is understood that before the turbofan-19 was officially introduced, the detailed report on China's new medium-thrust turbofan engine was only the "S3-2 type technical verification machine" project. The S3-2 type technical verification machine is a double-rotor, afterburning turbofan engine with a vector nozzle. The maximum state thrust was 9800kgf, and the thrust-to-weight ratio 9th. The goal was to obtain the national project after the verification machine technology meets the standards. An important member of the Chinese engine type spectrum, after mass production, meets the demand for medium-thrust turbofan engines with vector nozzles in the military aviation engine market.


From the performance parameters of the S3-2 technical verification machine and the performance description of the turbofan-19 "Huangshan" on the network, the two are very close. It is possible that the advanced technology development of the S3-2 technical verification machine has reached the target. After obtaining the approval of the engine model development project, it entered the prototype development stage. It is said that the target of the turbofan-19 is the F414 turbofan engine, which is larger than the European EJ200 engine in terms of maximum thrust.　

 

[MastanKhan]

You may be right. It is mere speculation and guess work at this point. With PAC and CATIC rightly being tight lipped about works in progress, all we have is translation of Chinese website claims that may or may not be true but it puts things in an interesting perspective like @MastanKhan stated about the growing Chinese metallurgical expertise.

In another news item dating from mid 2017, WS19 may not be something that just popped up in 2019, we get some more intriguing insight into the Project S3-2 (may be WS19):

It is understood that before the turbofan-19 was officially introduced, the detailed report on China's new medium-thrust turbofan engine was only the "S3-2 type technical verification machine" project. The S3-2 type technical verification machine is a double-rotor, afterburning turbofan engine with a vector nozzle. The maximum state thrust was 9800kgf, and the thrust-to-weight ratio 9th. The goal was to obtain the national project after the verification machine technology meets the standards. An important member of the Chinese engine type spectrum, after mass production, meets the demand for medium-thrust turbofan engines with vector nozzles in the military aviation engine market.


From the performance parameters of the S3-2 technical verification machine and the performance description of the turbofan-19 "Huangshan" on the network, the two are very close. It is possible that the advanced technology development of the S3-2 technical verification machine has reached the target. After obtaining the approval of the engine model development project, it entered the prototype development stage. It is said that the target of the turbofan-19 is the F414 turbofan engine, which is larger than the European EJ200 engine in terms of maximum thrust.　

Hi,

We also need to keep something else in mind---the cost of the european engine and sanctions attached to it---. Let us leave the sanctions alone for the moment---.

The european engine is about 3 time the cost of the russian and possibly the chinese engine---.

The upfront saving of 3 million dollars and a totally new setup for service and maintenance---technician training---we can spend it on new electronics / gadgets for the JF17---.

As we have found out---and that some of our less intelligent readers / posters also begun to understand now---that superior electronics package is king---and extra power does not mean a lot---even though it does to an extent---but it is not a deal breaker---and we also need to save our air frames---also smoke means nothing.

 

[Windjammer]

Imagine this happening right above your house.

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Tempest II]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1143117168688685057

 

[sneakerspark]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1143117168688685057

View attachment 566589 View attachment 566590

Is this news agency reporting on the basis of these threads?

 

[Tamiyah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1143117168688685057

View attachment 566589 View attachment 566590

Is this news agency reporting on the basis of these threads?

I think its based on FLIGHTGOLBAL report..