JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Tempest II]

Problem still remains that f22 probably will lock on our fighter and offload its payload at much greater range probably 70 mm plus

F 35 may be susceptible

Of course. I was not questioning that at all.

 

[LKJ86]

 

[Armchair]

View attachment 481783

South American sale possible?

 

[MastanKhan]

Problem still remains that f22 probably will lock on our fighter and offload its payload at much greater range probably 70 mm plus

F 35 may be susceptible

Hi,

The other problem---and that is the main problem is---getting a lock on the F22---. This aircraft has extremely sophisticated counter measures---.

What they say is---this aircraft will dance in front of you---and you still won't be able to get a lock on it---.

 

[randomradio]

East Pendulum reported citing NRIET deputy director Wang Hongzhe that the KLJ-7A has a range of 170 km against aerial target with 3m² RCS (radar cross-section) or 200 km against aerial target with 5m² RCS. It can track 15 targets and engage four simultaneously. Though equipped with 1,000 TRMs, it is not known if the KLJ-7A’s TRMs are built from gallium arsenide (GaA) or gallium nitride (GaN).

JF-17s will detect MKIs at about 220-250 km range!

These numbers are not even close to what the "obsolete" APG-80 has achieved. And tracking 15 targets is not even close to being impressive.

If you want to be a contemporary, then 250Km for a 3m2 target and tracking 32 targets is the minimum.

The other problem---and that is the main problem is---getting a lock on the F22---. This aircraft has extremely sophisticated counter measures---.

Nope. It lacks countermeasures entirely. They are yet to introduce it on their radars alone.

The lack of countermeasures on both the F-22 and F-35 is now being seen as a major liability.

 

[BATMAN]

View attachment 481783

PERU jF-17 vs. CHILE F-16

 

[Armchair]

PERU jF-17 vs. CHILE F-16

I thought the fellow in the seat looked Bolivian but I could be wrong. Peruvian politicians and military usually are and look white.

(natives in Peru are usually marginalized and poor)

Hi,

The other problem---and that is the main problem is---getting a lock on the F22---. This aircraft has extremely sophisticated counter measures---.

What they say is---this aircraft will dance in front of you---and you still won't be able to get a lock on it---.

GaN changes that equation. Only operational GaN so far are the Saab new AWACS. Saab claims its anti-stealth. The next generation of BVR seekers are all going to be AESA possibly with GaN as well as the FC radar.

Then you have the range of IR-based BVRs. Not to mention dual-band.

US has only 90 odd F-22 that are combat capable. Requires a CFPH of 70000 dollars. Needs maintenance after every flight. The skin on these aircraft are flawed and need constant repair. Even rain damages them, as does any kind of bad weather.

0.05 is only from the front and in ideal conditions...

No idea about the EW but lower the RCS, more effective the EW in defending the target.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I thought the fellow in the seat looked Bolivian but I could be wrong. Peruvian politicians and military usually are and look white.

(natives in Peru are usually marginalized and poor)



GaN changes that equation. Only operational GaN so far are the Saab new AWACS. Saab claims its anti-stealth. The next generation of BVR seekers are all going to be AESA possibly with GaN as well as the FC radar.

Then you have the range of IR-based BVRs. Not to mention dual-band.

US has only 90 odd F-22 that are combat capable. Requires a CFPH of 70000 dollars. Needs maintenance after every flight. The skin on these aircraft are flawed and need constant repair. Even rain damages them, as does any kind of bad weather.

0.05 is only from the front and in ideal conditions...

No idea about the EW but lower the RCS, more effective the EW in defending the target.

Hi,

For that very reason---the USAF has gone extensively for the BVR trucks---.

One thing about the US military is that it understands its limitations in an arena very well---it also understands how to manipulate its strengths and enemy's weaknesses to its advantage---.

So---basically there would be no pitched battles between the F22's and other aircraft.

If the F22 won't find advantage in a fight---it would disappear before appearing---means---it would be gone before it is seen---. Enemy would not know that the F22 was there---.

I believe that the USAF has extensively studied the battle tactics of Subotai Bahadur and has implemented them as well---.

 

[Armchair]

Hi,



Hi,

For that very reason---the USAF has gone extensively for the BVR trucks---.

One thing about the US military is that it understands its limitations in an arena very well---it also understands how to manipulate its strengths and enemy's weaknesses to its advantage---.

So---basically there would be no pitched battles between the F22's and other aircraft.

If the F22 won't find advantage in a fight---it would disappear before appearing---means---it would be gone before it is seen---. Enemy would not know that the F22 was there---.

I believe that the USAF has extensively studied the battle tactics of Subotai Bahadur and has implemented them as well---.

Interesting thought. Mongols were masters of that. But I'd dare to disagree. USAF, no doubt a great outfit, but an outfit nevertheless. One that has some fundamental flaws and has been shown to be mortal both in the Korean and Vietnamese war.

And they aren't the masters of learning by synthesis either - their combat record between Korea and Vietnam decreased alarmingly. 2:1 was what they were brought to in Vietnam.

In the US, the army is dumb, the air force is deceitful and the navy is dishonest. This is a saying in the beltway, at least when I was there.

The biggest issue is an organization theory problem - they are essentially a fighter pilot mafia. Or a fighter pilot union. This, along with imperial arrogance and hubris has been a major dent in their capability.

Combine that with the duopoly of LM and Boeing and you have the worst of both worlds - the corruption and overpricing of a free-market monopoly, and the red-tape and dirty games of a bureaucracy.

A nazi corporatist system that has the worst characteristics of anything. They are building gold-plated junk. It is easy to be impressed with the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s even. But the very spirit of US enterprise and innovation has come under threat, and got buried dead.

I know you'd disagree, but that's just how I see it. The F-35 is a dud. The F-22 is a lemon. UAV / UCAV use was anything but innovative or effective - it took a kick from the CIA and the USN to get the USAF on board at all, and on board like a grudging little child not wanting to go to school.

USAF will get schooled, but only and only when they get a peer competitor. Right now, given the US military budget, no one, not even China is close. China at best has a third of the US budget. And has its own inefficiencies to deal with.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nope. It lacks countermeasures entirely. They are yet to introduce it on their radars alone.

The lack of countermeasures on both the F-22 and F-35 is now being seen as a major liability.

Hi,

Really---. And they have been in combat without that---. If you say so---.

Interesting thought. Mongols were masters of that. But I'd dare to disagree. USAF, no doubt a great outfit, but an outfit nevertheless. One that has some fundamental flaws and has been shown to be mortal both in the Korean and Vietnamese war.

And they aren't the masters of learning by synthesis either - their combat record between Korea and Vietnam decreased alarmingly. 2:1 was what they were brought to in Vietnam.

In the US, the army is dumb, the air force is deceitful and the navy is dishonest. This is a saying in the beltway, at least when I was there.

The biggest issue is an organization theory problem - they are essentially a fighter pilot mafia. Or a fighter pilot union. This, along with imperial arrogance and hubris has been a major dent in their capability.

Combine that with the duopoly of LM and Boeing and you have the worst of both worlds - the corruption and overpricing of a free-market monopoly, and the red-tape and dirty games of a bureaucracy.

A nazi corporatist system that has the worst characteristics of anything. They are building gold-plated junk. It is easy to be impressed with the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s even. But the very spirit of US enterprise and innovation has come under threat, and got buried dead.

I know you'd disagree, but that's just how I see it. The F-35 is a dud. The F-22 is a lemon. UAV / UCAV use was anything but innovative or effective - it took a kick from the CIA and the USN to get the USAF on board at all, and on board like a grudging little child not wanting to go to school.

USAF will get schooled, but only and only when they get a peer competitor. Right now, given the US military budget, no one, not even China is close. China at best has a third of the US budget. And has its own inefficiencies to deal with.

Hi,

At the end of your post---you have answered your own question---.

One has to understand something---for the US---winning a war in the conventional manner not something they are looking forward to---.

It is about the gains and losses---. Losses become a concern when numbers get outrageous---.

So---I would request---don't take the losses of the americans in vietnam and Korea as a loss----.

I tell pakistanis---they really have no understanding of the tenacity and will power of the americans---.

They are not dumb---they are extremely smart---sharp and intelligent people---. It is just a part of the country boys religious upbringing that he is made to trust everyone unless proven wrong---.

They have the fire power to smash thru any enemy on a frontal attack and decimate the enemy---.

When the first gulf war started---a news came out in L A times---60000 to 100000 iraqi soldiers buried alive in their trenches when the american military minesweeper bulldozer tanks swept thru the battle arena---. This news I read first hand myself with the news paper in my hand---but then the news has disappeared and no record found of it---.

The U S military has built a system---that meets its requirement---a system they understand how it works and how they wanted it to work---.

Never sell them short---.

Ask the russians what happened to their air force in the early 50's when the usaf attacked them---totally decimated them---and the russians never uttered a whimper even---lest the world found out how comprehensively they were beaten.

 

[randomradio]

Hi,

Really---. And they have been in combat without that---. If you say so---.

They have been purely relying on stealth alone. Their belief is ECM will give away stealth making it counterproductive to what they had set out to achieve.

But the upcoming aircraft, the PCA, F/A-XX etc will have full fledged EW suites with ECM.

 

[denel]

View attachment 481783

what is morales doing in that cockpit? which plane?

 

[randomradio]

Hi,

I do not like to teach my indian colleagues over here---so this is a once a happening---.

Just because you do not understand what they have in conventional terms---does not mean they do not have what they need---.

Which means that when you ask them the questions about conventional ECM's---they will answer no---which may be the truth---.

But then they may have other means to counter what was conventional---.

The USAF themselves have admitted to the govt that they screwed up by not investing in EW since the end of the Cold War. That's why they are going to fix it through the new programs.

The USAF in fact relies on the USN for Growler support. But they generally operate with limited ECM support anyway, even with 4th gen aircraft.

Even the new NGJ program is a navy program.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ctronic-warfare-could-ground-the-us-air-15932
The United States will have to invest time and money to rebuild its electronic warfare capabilities. During his testimony, Breedlove admitted that the Pentagon had neglected electronic warfare during the past two decades—which has allowed the Kremlin to gain an advantage. That’s especially true of the U.S. Air Force, which divested most of its electronic warfare capability because of its single-minded devotion to stealth.

Just remember---do not for ever sell the white boys short---.

Just remember one thing---they are so good at what they do---that they have murdered more muslims than Ghengiz Khan---they have murdered more muslims than the germans killed the jews---they have made more muslims homeless and destroyed the history and historical places of muslims than any other invader---and yet the world has not said anything bad to them or condemned them---.

So---to you and to my dear colleague @Armchair ---there has been no dragon born with such a love for destruction murder mayhem ferocity tenacity and tactics as this one---.

One more thing to remember---the SR71---when did we find out about that aircraft---what it could do---at the end of its career---.

Okay, that bit is not even close to being true. It's all been mostly Muslims killing Muslims. They have helped destabilise the Middle East, but that again is the fault of the Muslims involved.

 

[MastanKhan]

what is morales doing in that cockpit? which plane?

Hi Denel,

These boys at sinodefnceforum think that the J10 design just dropped from the skies into chinese design tables and the Israelis had nothing to do with it---.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi,

Really---. And they have been in combat without that---. If you say so---.

Sir ignore the @randomradio he knows nothing what he Taking about @MastanKhan , in another thread @randomradio assuming that F-22 & F-35 don't have senor fusion and Claim that RAFALE is a 5th gen jet and better than F-22 and F-35 and PAK-FA is 6th gen jet @MastanKhan , so ignore the jester like @randomradio sir @MastanKhan