JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Chak Bamu]

I 5hink we have committed ourselves and have been caught in our own commitment. Fledgeling relations that we have establushed will no doubt be harmed by the snub of a changed engine. The other thing which I dont know is what was offered by the red bear in exchange for choosing the RD series. If I remember the original sale was facilitated by china.
A

PAF can walk away without any damage - I am certain of this. Russian strategic space in post-USSR era does not owe itself to new weapons programs and technological leaps - quite the contrary in fact. Apart from a possible SU-35 deal (remote chance, IMO because Pakistan does not have the money to pay for something like it), there is nothing that mandates PAF to stick with Russian hardware. So, it would be better to opt for a Chinese engine even if it offers marginal improvement.

 

[messiach]

MK, you are the high prince of defence.pk. How can i dare challenge your majesty.
FBW onboard FC! is 10X leaner, cleaner & simplified and 2.5X efficient to gripen. 60 million Gripen has a good range of payload with different AAMs, recce/targetting pods, GBUs, with 9-10 hardpoints which is a valid point you have made. All said but we are not far behind atall here. Homegrown EWS is far more responsive to gripen.

Hi,

Thank you for a to the point and clear post---.

Grippen NG upgrade is exceptional in value---.

But it is not a 10 year upgade---. For a JF17---it would be like a 1 1/2 to 2 years at the most---because all the parameters of the upgrade are known.

About 6-7 years ago I wrote the upgrade would cost us around 50 million dollars---. Today we maybe close to a 100 million dollars---.

A simpler upgrade would be removal of the gun and ammo and now you may have a space to place a fuel tank for a reasonable amount of fuel---.

So--@messiach to get the RD93---what did we do---sign over our first born---?

MK, you are the high prince of defence.pk. How can i dare challange your majesty.
FBW onboard FC! is 10X leaner, cleaner & simplified and 2.5X efficient to gripen. 60 million Gripen has a good range of payload with different AAMs, recce/targetting pods, GBUs, with 9-10 hardpoints which is a valid point you have made. Homegrown EWS is far more responsive to gripen. All said but we are not far behind atall here.

@Dazzler @Deino Both are very different fans with almost similar outputs. No its not a copy. Those times are gone.

RD93

As far as I am concerned, I believe that we should switch to WS-13 if it offers even marginal improvement over RD-93.

True.

With the WS13 available and another WS-engine the pipeline, I think sticking to the RD-93 has less to do with the RD-93 in of itself and more, to @messiach's earlier points, with wanting gas turbine technology for the future.

 

[Sine Nomine]

We want to stay with RD93 is a different story of foreign policy related ghastly diplomatic blunders.

Madam shed some more light.

 

[Deino]

...
@Dazzler @Deino Both are very different fans with almost similar outputs. No its not a copy. Those times are gone.

Sorry to ask further, but if it is not a licensed variant, an indigenously further developed derivate nor an indigenous clean sheet design that mysteriously looks like a RD-93, ... what is it then?

 

[messiach]

It is far cheaper & safer to R&D a clean sheet than to R Eng.

Sorry to ask further, but if it is not a licensed variant, an indigenously further developed derivate nor an indigenous clean sheet design that mysteriously looks like a RD-93, ... what is it then?

Not the right forum.

Madam shed some more light.

 

[Deino]

...
Not the right forum.

Then I'll kindly invite you to the Chinese military section and the engines thread!

 

[MastanKhan]

MK, you are the high prince of defence.pk. How can i dare challenge your majesty.
FBW onboard FC! is 10X leaner, cleaner & simplified and 2.5X efficient to gripen. 60 million Gripen has a good range of payload with different AAMs, recce/targetting pods, GBUs, with 9-10 hardpoints which is a valid point you have made. All said but we are not far behind atall here. Homegrown EWS is far more responsive to gripen.

Hi,

Thank you---that is what I have been saying---Grippen NG is no mythical creature---and the JF17 BLK2 that we have and the coming JF17 BLK3 would be matching aircrafts to the Grippen matching blocks---.

 

[denel]

Hi,

Thank you---that is what I have been saying---Grippen NG is no mythical creature---and the JF17 BLK2 that we have and the coming JF17 BLK3 would be matching aircrafts to the Grippen matching blocks---.

Not really; NGs are far more advanced in every respect - materials, electronics, avionics, flying characteristics etc.

 

[MastanKhan]

Not really; NGs are far more advanced in every respect - materials, electronics, avionics, flying characteristics etc.

Hi,

All we know about the BLK3 is speculations---. Will wait till the aircraft comes out---.

Won't be a big difference that could not become reduced in the next 3 to 5 years---if it exists.

The JF17 is currently ahead of the Grippen---as the JF17 hs already been thru combat---.

An aircraft is as strong as its weakest link----ie---how is it going to enter combat---with what kind of support---what techniques and technology it would use---what kind of resources and weapons---what would be the role of the individual aircraft & what would be the role of the " whole " in controlling and enhancing the abilities and capabilities of the individual aircrafts---.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I second that, people generally think RE is easier but in reality RE requires at minimum double the effort than a brand new own design.

It is far cheaper & safer to R&D a clean sheet than to R Eng.



Not the right forum.

 

[messiach]

What is the source behind?? I have been on the level-0 revision panel who have looked at the control surfaces & operations of gripen & rafale.

Not really; NGs are far more advanced in every respect - materials, electronics, avionics, flying characteristics etc.

 

[Deino]

...
The JF17 is currently ahead of the Grippen---as the JF17 hs already been thru combat---.
...

Come on, by that logic, the JF-17 would be be ahead of the F-35 but the MiG-21 will be way ahead of the JF-17, since it was already combat proven at a time, the JF-17 was not even in its infancy.

 

[bananarepublic]

Come on, by that logic, the JF-17 would be be ahead of the F-35 but the MiG-21 will be way ahead of the JF-17, since it was already combat proven at a time, the JF-17 was not even in its infancy.

You are comparing two different generation of jets with different combat philosaphy
Bear in mind gripen and fc-1 have been develpod for the same purpose and are both 4th gen.
Their combat role are similar to an extent .fc-1 was developed with the capabilities of gripen in mind .

 

[MastanKhan]

Come on, by that logic, the JF-17 would be be ahead of the F-35 but the MiG-21 will be way ahead of the JF-17, since it was already combat proven at a time, the JF-17 was not even in its infancy.

Hi,

Thanks Deino---the F35 has been in combat---. And in comparing against another 5th gen aircraft---it would be stated to be ahead of its the other 5th gen aircraft because it has seen combat.

The JF17 and the Grippen are on the same page---. Both new aircraft of similar features---same size and utility---so what is wrong with that. If a WHITE ANALYST had stated that---you would be okay with it---.

The F35 is on a higher plateau by the default of its 5th gen technology---.

The Subaru WRX maybe an extremely quick cars---but it does not mean that one should start comparing it to Bugati Veyron---.

 

[Windjammer]