JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[SQ8]

RD93 is useless,I want to meet those genius guys..

The Rd-93 is useless?
I am not of the context

 

[Sine Nomine]

The Rd-93 is useless?
I am not of the context

Sigh....I want to meet that genius who was saying RD 93 is useless because that engine has lodged thousands of flying hours on JFT and above all it is very mature system like rd 33.Oscar sir you actually got me wrong.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Sigh....I want to meet that genius who was saying RD 93 is useless because that engine has lodged thousands of flying hours on JFT and above all it is very mature system like rd 33.Oscar sir you actually got me wrong.

Sir, I don't think someone literally meant that its useless (useless would mean it can't even start ). But I think if you know the history of RD-93 engines, the cost to operate them on Migs is very high, MTBF, and availability of aircrafts post a few hours long flight operation was very low (some estimates suggest 40%, Indian SU's have some issues like that too).

But the one's supplied for the JF-17, were initially tweaked per the Chinese requirements. So these are much better and have higher MTBF than the original ones. I think whoever said they are "useless" was referring to the original version where fighter availability used to drop to 40%. RD-93 MA would supposedly increase the MTBF by 100% from some sources I've seen on the internet. Thanks

The Rd-93 is useless?

Sir, sorry for the diversion from your question. I wanted to ask, do you or anyone has pictures of the JFT block III design? I've read it on multiple places that the design would be somewhat different than the block I and II.

@Windjammer : Sir, please post pictures of the JFT block III design if you have them, or will get them. Thank you

 

[SQ8]

Sir, I don't think someone literally meant that its useless (useless would mean it can't even start ). But I think if you know the history of RD-93 engines, the cost to operate them on Migs is very high, MTBF, and availability of aircrafts post a few hours long flight operation was very low (some estimates suggest 40%, Indian SU's have some issues like that too).

But the one's supplied for the JF-17, were initially tweaked per the Chinese requirements. So these are much better and have higher MTBF than the original ones. I think whoever said they are "useless" was referring to the original version where fighter availability used to drop to 40%. RD-93 MA would supposedly increase the MTBF by 100% from some sources I've seen on the internet. Thanks



Sir, sorry for the diversion from your question. I wanted to ask, do you or anyone has pictures of the JFT block III design? I've read it on multiple places that the design would be somewhat different than the block I and II.

@Windjammer : Sir, please post pictures of the JFT block III design if you have them, or will get them. Thank you

No difference in physical appearance besides token changes to accommodate equipment.
95% it is the same airframe externally.

Internally we might be looking at certain material changes along with key structual points being reinforced or changed.

 

[Basel]

Sir, it is a known fact. For those of us who have been involved with aviation, would know the Russian fighters using this engine (Mig-29 specifically), have 40% availability after just a few hours of flight. The Chinese, when bought the RD-93, had already asked for certain optimizations on this engine before it was put into the JF-17.

RD-93 MA is supposed to have better combustion processing, spooling and thrust obviously, with digital controls so it will have twice or more the MTBF, with reduced Carbon dispensing (Black smoke).



Sir, this comparison is being done due to the stolen tech of the JSF. However, it takes a mature industry to even build stolen items 100% right. Knowing the Chinese manufacturing capabilities in their early stages to produce this sophisticated tech, there isn't really a comparison between the APG series and anything else the Chinese produce. The APG series has matured overtime for close to a century know. So product reliability doesn't have a comparison.

On capability, if this is truly a copy of the JSF radar, you can use your common sense and as this may be the first generation of radars the Chinese are producing at this level (when with the tech they stole), I'd make it 60-70% comparable. But then if they mass produce it, obviously, the quantity has its own quality I guess.

It is also said that its developed from Israeli ELTA 2052 AESA radar (Israel may have been involved to some level), if true how capable it would be?

 

[messiach]

From kilmov and chernyshev.

OK. These are advertising brochures. RD-3-series 3 were build to imrpove service life and reduce cost.

 

[Windjammer]

Checkout the serial number of the JF-17. !!!

 

[Thorough Pro]

You questioned the claim (as some people were claiming that RD93 is a crappy engine) but did not put a question mark, and it appears as though you are stating that it is a crappy engine.

I beg you pardon sir,where did I said it's a crappy engine!

In black panthers? did PAF quietly replaced all their jets with block 2?

Checkout the serial number of the JF-17. !!!


View attachment 348026

 

[DJ_Viper]

It is also said that its developed from Israeli ELTA 2052 AESA radar (Israel may have been involved to some level), if true how capable it would be?

Sir, the JSF and the F-22 are top tier jets. The versions built for Europe + Israel (Radar + Avionics) for sure would have differences than the versions built for the US homeland. Its just the way it is, any manufacturer builds the same technology slightly differently per the internal needs, vs. the export needs. Plus, the Europeans and the Israelis, both end up using their own Radars and Avionics in American jets (Israelis have pretty much always have their own components in American jets for the past 3 decades at the least), same goes for some of European countries.

So ELTA AESA line of radars, albeit very capable (similar to the ones put on the F-16's block 60+), are still much inferior to the JSF tech. Remember, a jet costing $ 75-85 million and another one (the JSF) costing over $ 115 million all options included (and the Naval version well over $ 200 million initial costs) are two entirely different platforms. So much more $$ aren't used to build the same level of tech, this is a generation ahead of everything out there. So if ELTA is the baseline design for the Chinese AESA radars now, albeit very capable, but these are definitely a generation behind the JSF tech.

Lastly, ELTA makes proven combat systems. But the Chinese one is a brand new copy and can't be up to date. It will take a few more years easily to fix many bugs. Two-three years in today's fast paced tech world are a lot of time. A whole new generation ahead of this tech will be coming out by ELTA. So the point I am making is that the Chinese are a generation behind in producing top tier Radars and Avionics compared to the rest of the modern world.

However, for the JFT, I think this radar (if it works like ELTA, capability wise) would do wonders as the operational theater of Pakistani airforce is defensive in nature. So its the best radar if it does work like ELTA or even the AESA on the F-16's. But for China, this won't do much and it would be considered older tech by the time they workout the kinks. Thanks

 

[TaimiKhan]

Checkout the serial number of the JF-17. !!!


View attachment 348026

Thing to be seen is, this one is from the Panther Sqd based at Peshawar, which previously equipped with Block-I but now replaced them with Block-IIs.

So older Sqds getting newer jets, older jets getting updated and given to new raised sqds.

No 2 Sqd latest to get JF-17, but got Block-1s. Nice.

 

[krash]

In black panthers? did PAF quietly replaced all their jets with block 2?

Thing to be seen is, this one is from the Panther Sqd based at Peshawar, which previously equipped with Block-I but now replaced them with Block-IIs.

So older Sqds getting newer jets, older jets getting updated and given to new raised sqds.

No 2 Sqd latest to get JF-17, but got Block-1s. Nice.

They have a habit of switching aircraft around squadrons. We've seen this with the Blk 15 F-16s as well. No clue as to what the general or specific reasons behind the rotations might be.

 

[SQ8]

Thing to be seen is, this one is from the Panther Sqd based at Peshawar, which previously equipped with Block-I but now replaced them with Block-IIs.

So older Sqds getting newer jets, older jets getting updated and given to new raised sqds.

No 2 Sqd latest to get JF-17, but got Block-1s. Nice.

Not exactly; the idea is to have the OCU base for the JF-17 have the latest tech to test out.

 

[nomi007]

great to see this
nishan e haider

 

[Dazzler]

knock knock, notice something, especially the different camo jf-17 in the background, Nigerian perhaps?

 

[Army research]

knock knock, notice something, especially the different camo jf-17 in the background, Nigerian perhaps?

Good eye sir easy to over look

knock knock, notice something, especially the different camo jf-17 in the background, Nigerian perhaps?

But can't be Nigerian as there camo is khaki and green , Myanmar looks similar to this , heck some might even say qatar(jk)