JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[TaimiKhan]

In the horizontal plane, its outmatched until the new Klimov improvments kick in in the vertical.

I was at one of the rehearsal day of 23rd march and saw jf-17 perform 2 times in a single day. And to be frank in horizontal flying the jf17 would sometimes take a turn as if it has TVC engine in play, like you couldnt believe the sudden jerk like motion it would do and especially at lower speeds.

As you said all it needs is a good powerful engine where f16 takes the lead.

Sent from my HTC One X9 dual sim using Defence.pk mobile app

 

[BATMAN]

As you said all it needs is a good powerful engine where f16 takes the lead.

RD93 engine has come long way ever since launch of jF-17, but what do you say should be the ideal thrust of engine to be at par with F-16?
I ask this because F-16 engine is also improving regularly, so in that sense RD-33 can never catch up with F-16.

 

[messiach]

Not as yet. CVar critical AoA makes life v easy for the fan.

@messiach

 

[SQ8]

Not as yet. CVar critical AoA makes life v easy for the fan.

Weren’t klimov present for a long time last year for improvements?

 

[messiach]

Short visit only. Not for long. Yes.

Weren’t klimov present for a long time last year for improvements?

 

[CriticalThought]

I was at one of the rehearsal day of 23rd march and saw jf-17 perform 2 times in a single day. And to be frank in horizontal flying the jf17 would sometimes take a turn as if it has TVC engine in play, like you couldnt believe the sudden jerk like motion it would do and especially at lower speeds.

As you said all it needs is a good powerful engine where f16 takes the lead.

Sent from my HTC One X9 dual sim using Defence.pk mobile app

What you saw is instantaneous turn rate. And this surprises me because it is the characteristic of Delta wing fighers. The entire canard/Delta configuration evolved from the philosophy that ITR is what matters in a fight.

It reflects an aggressive pilot combined with a top notch fly by wire control system which activates the horizontal stabilizers very quickly. It's a sharp yank of the stick to the left/right followed by an immediate pull back on the stick.

@Oscar @messiach correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[messiach]

Instantaneous turn rate? where in the video, show me please. The maximum pitch-up rate is at significant cost of speed & altitude.

What you saw is instantaneous turn rate. And this surprises me because it is the characteristic of Delta wing fighers. The entire canard/Delta configuration evolved from the philosophy that ITR is what matters in a fight.

It reflects an aggressive pilot combined with a top notch fly by wire control system which activates the horizontal stabilizers very quickly. It's a sharp yank of the stick to the left/right followed by an immediate pull back on the stick.

@Oscar @messiach correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[CriticalThought]

Instantaneous turn rate? where in the video, show me please. The maximum pitch-up rate is at significant cost of speed & altitude.

The guy I quoted was talking about what he saw at the March 23 rehearsals. He hasn't given any video. He saw the Thunder making extremely sharp turns, especially at slow speeds.

This is his post

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-1...ighter-thread-7.427560/page-483#post-11314730

 

[messiach]

Thankyou. This is STR.
@TaimiKhan ITR is what flankers do with TVC.

The guy I quoted was talking about what he saw at the March 23 rehearsals. He hasn't given any video. He saw the Thunder making extremely sharp turns, especially at slow speeds.

This is his post
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-1...ighter-thread-7.427560/page-483#post-11314730

 

[SQ8]

What you saw is instantaneous turn rate. And this surprises me because it is the characteristic of Delta wing fighers. The entire canard/Delta configuration evolved from the philosophy that ITR is what matters in a fight.

It reflects an aggressive pilot combined with a top notch fly by wire control system which activates the horizontal stabilizers very quickly. It's a sharp yank of the stick to the left/right followed by an immediate pull back on the stick.

@Oscar @messiach correct me if I am wrong here.

ITR or STR isn’t anyone’s domain, but rather factors to balance with. The delta’s aspect ratio and wing loading permits the pitch rate that high.

ITR matters for first look, first kill. But in a multi platform fight it matters less-and with BVR energy retention matters more.

 

[Tempest II]

Thankyou. This is STR.
@TaimiKhan ITR is what flankers do with TVC.

I thought when you watch the 360 turn, the 1st 2 or 3 seconds, the fighter is turning at 90 deg/second. However by the time it completes the full circle, it takes over 24 seconds, meaning it has averaged 15 degrees per second. I would say ITR is at least 30 degrees per second while STR is less than 15. Many factors affect turn rate.

 

[Shane]

Instantaneous turn rate? where in the video, show me please. The maximum pitch-up rate is at significant cost of speed & altitude.

Probably @TaimiKhan is talking about observing something similar to the following:

17 seconds onwards, the engine is probably at idle and full air brakes deployed...just guessing, the experts know better.

 

[Riz]

Probably @TaimiKhan is talking about observing something similar to the following:

17 seconds onwards, the engine is probably at idle and full air brakes deployed...just guessing, the experts know better.

Wow... Man i never saw JF-17 doing these tricks before ..

 

[Shane]

Wow... Man i never saw JF-17 doing these tricks before ..

Neither have I, at such a drastic level anyway, the actual moves are the same but the application is at another level. Kudos to the expert man behind the machine.

And the pilot is Wing commander Yasir Muddassir Aslam of the 14th, if I remember correctly.

 

[messiach]

ITR, dangerous, no use in combat. Associated with instantaneous drop in attitude, speed & altitude.

Probably @TaimiKhan is talking about observing something similar to the following:

17 seconds onwards, the engine is probably at idle and full air brakes deployed...just guessing, the experts know better.

That is ITR always associated with drop in altitude, speed & pitch attitude.

I thought when you watch the 360 turn, the 1st 2 or 3 seconds, the fighter is turning at 90 deg/second. However by the time it completes the full circle, it takes over 24 seconds, meaning it has averaged 15 degrees per second. I would say ITR is at least 30 degrees per second while STR is less than 15. Many factors affect turn rate.